Outrage over Vatican request for $1.1 million to fund sisters investigation (National Catholic Reporter)

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The comments section on our news articles is always lively, and, frankly, often contentious. Deep divisions of opinion quickly come to life. So it is rare, and says something pretty dramatic, when virtually all the comments sing in a common chorus. Such seems to be the case in the comment section of the article I posted yesterday.

We’ve known for some time the Vatican’s Apostolic Visitation of U.S. women religious has not gone down well in many parts of the church here in the states. With the revelation yesterday of the call by Cardinal Franc Rodé to have the U.S. bishops fund the investigation – meaning, of course, that U.S. Catholics are being called to cough up, a new round of anger has erupted. Now the process, in addition to the substance, of the effort is receiving new and wider scurtiny.

Readers are raising all sorts of new questions: Like how can Rome possibly begin a major investigation without first securing funding? And why should U.S. Catholics be called to pay for it if they were never consulted about the study to begin with? Many readers are wanting to know if their bishops are sending their money to Rome for this cause.

ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/outrage-over-vatican-request-11-million-fund-sisters-investigation

Well, visitations aren’t free and money doesn’t grow on trees.
 
Sorry, but I have some serious concerns over the way many of our religious orders are conducting themselves, and am glad to help fund the “visitations”. Do they think they should not be accountable to the Holy Father and the rest of the church for what they teach, for the errors they spread? I think they would be happy to welcome the visitation to ensure they are in line with the Magisterium. After all, what could they possibly be trying to hide?

Last time I looked, obedience was a virtue.
 
Reading the comments accompanying the original article it makes one wonder if there is a single soul among them who truly believes the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit. What do they think Rome is doing, coming over here for busy work? They have nothing better to do?
 
jacie said:
Sorry, but I have some serious concerns over the way many of our religious orders are conducting themselves, and am glad to help fund the “visitations”. Do they think they should not be accountable to the Holy Father and the rest of the church for what they teach, for the errors they spread? I think they would be happy to welcome the visitation to ensure they are in line with the Magisterium. After all, what could they possibly be trying to hide?

Last time I looked, obedience was a virtue.
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Ditto. Too many sisters think that their vocation is that of social worker rather than disciple of Christ.
 
Those comments make me profoundly sad - more proof that the Catholic Church in the US is in shambles. Almost every commentor seems to be under the impression that the Church in the US is somehow not required to be in line with the universal church.
 
Eucharisted said:
The comments section on our news articles is always lively, and, frankly, often contentious. Deep divisions of opinion quickly come to life. So it is rare, and says something pretty dramatic, when virtually all the comments sing in a common chorus. Such seems to be the case in the comment section of the article I posted yesterday.

We’ve known for some time the Vatican’s Apostolic Visitation of U.S. women religious has not gone down well in many parts of the church here in the states. With the revelation yesterday of the call by Cardinal Franc Rodé to have the U.S. bishops fund the investigation – meaning, of course, that U.S. Catholics are being called to cough up, a new round of anger has erupted. Now the process, in addition to the substance, of the effort is receiving new and wider scurtiny.

Readers are raising all sorts of new questions: Like how can Rome possibly begin a major investigation without first securing funding? And why should U.S. Catholics be called to pay for it if they were never consulted about the study to begin with? Many readers are wanting to know if their bishops are sending their money to Rome for this cause.

ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/outrage-over-vatican-request-11-million-fund-sisters-investigation

Well, visitations aren’t free and money doesn’t grow on trees.
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I agree that it’s outrageous for the Vatican to impose an uninvited investigation (for what many obviously consider questionable reasons) and then after the fact have the gall to ask others to pay for it. If the Vatican really thought such an investigation was essential to the faith and unity of the Church, the Vatican should pay for it (imho). THis is particularly outrageous given the obvious scandal that numerous people in the Church hierarchy have given to the Church (and world) regarding sexual abuse, and the financial repercussions this has had on all of us Catholics.
 
Ok, we are only seeing part of the story here, are they basing the need for this upon complaints made by the people they are investigating, or complaints by the people they are helping, or complaints made by the local parishes they serve? It doesn’t list the reasoning, that article should have included that, either way, you can’t really form an educated opinion unless you have those facts.
 
diggerdomer said:
I agree that it’s outrageous for the Vatican to impose an uninvited investigation (for what many obviously consider questionable reasons) and then after the fact have the gall to ask others to pay for it. If the Vatican really thought such an investigation was essential to the faith and unity of the Church, the Vatican should pay for it (imho). THis is particularly outrageous given the obvious scandal that numerous people in the Church hierarchy have given to the Church (and world) regarding sexual abuse, and the financial repercussions this has had on all of us Catholics.
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Oh Baloney!Where do you think the vatican gets its paltry sums from anyway-us!Do you know what the annual vatican budget is?Do you know they are currently in defecit?.One sin does not excuse another and you know it or you SHOULD know it.The sooner these new age goddess worshipping probable lesbians are disenfranchised the better.You’ll see an increase in vocations of young women who will be drawn to the traditional habited devout and OBEDIENT orders.Meryl Streep discussed dressing in a nun’s habit in a recent movie (that just happened to be about an abusive priest)as “being clothed in God”.What a wonderful and true sentiment.

Give your head a shake.
 
maggiemay2u said:
Where do I send the check?
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+1 !!! 😃

If the USCCB won’t cough up, the Vatican should appeal directly to the US faithful who’ve been suffering for decades the sabotage of religious who ceased to be catholic in faith long ago, but retain their authoritative positions in the church they seem to hate.
 
Has anyone done the math? This is less than $1.00 per Catholic in the USA. Government studies cost a lot more per person and usually are a waste of time and money.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
If the USCCB kept a better eye on these groups the Visitation wouldn’t be required. Parishioners who put their money in the collection basket should insist on proper adherence to Church teachings. Obedience by all is required, but blind obedience on the road to Hell is cultish, not of Christ.
 
Peanuts compared to the cost of the last scandal. I’m happy to see the Vatican being proactive.
 
Ockham said:
If the USCCB kept a better eye on these groups the Visitation wouldn’t be required. Parishioners who put their money in the collection basket should insist on proper adherence to Church teachings. Obedience by all is required, but blind obedience on the road to Hell is cultish, not of Christ.
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Here is the problem. The USCCB has been keeping an eye on the target group, many communities of sisters not all, and they filed the concern with the proper Vatican authorities, the Sacred Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life. They have to go that route, because most religious congregations are of Pontifical Right. This means that the bishops cannot interfere in their affairs.

When a religious congregation has pontifical rights, they are outside of the bishops’ reach. The bishop can fire them from work that they do for the diocese, but he cannot tell them how to live their religious life or what they support or don’t support. The only authority over them is their major superior and above that is the Holy Father himself.

Pontifical Right was granted to many religiuos congregations of women in immitation of the rights granted to religious orders for two reasons.
  1. This frees up the congregation from the diocese so they can send their religious to serve around the world without being tied down to a diocese.
  2. It frees the congregation from abuses of power by bishops and the laity who in the past tried to control religious by controlling their property and freedom of movement, such as what happened in Europe during the Middle Ages.
Now there are allegations that these congregations of women have abused their freedom to push such agendas as women’s rights, abortion, same-sex marriage, ordination of women, divorce and remarriage and other things that are not in keeping with the teachings of the Church. There is also a concern that the quality of religious life that many of these women live is not up to par with what religious life is: not living in community, no receiving the sacraments frequently, being involved in social causes for the sake of the cause instead of the sake of the Gospel, not having a deep prayer life, not promoting vocations to the religious life or promoting vocations in such a way that waters down religious life to a commitment to social issues rather than consecration to Christ, and not being obedient to the Holy See who grants them their rights in the first place.

I hope this helps everyone understand what happened and why it has to go down this way.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
diggerdomer said:
Wow. Where does THAT come from?
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Why,from these “nuns”,of course.Google them,and their agendas.They are the antithesis of the BVM.

Why on earth do you think their orthoxy is being investigated?Why have the more radical “sects” pledged absolute non-compliance with the investigators(would that they were Dominicans)
 
Soutane said:
Why,from these “nuns”,of course.Google them,and their agendas.They are the antithesis of the BVM.

Why on earth do you think their orthoxy is being investigated?Why have the more radical “sects” pledged absolute non-compliance with the investigators(would that they were Dominicans)
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First of all, they aren not nuns who are being investigated. The Sacred Congregation made it clear that it is only investigating sisters, not the nuns. Second, it is only investigatin sisters congregations, not sects, who belong to the Council for Women Religious, not the Council for Religious Superiors of Women. That’s another group. Finally, there are several hundred Dominicans who are being investigated. So I’m not sure why you say, “would that they were Dominicans.”

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Note: I fully support this study. I fully recognize that the Vatican has the right, authority, and obligation to conduct this study. I fully agree that Catholics have the duty to provide for the material well-being of the Church. If I had money, I would support paying for this study.

That being said – why do they need $1.1 million for this study? How exactly is this money being spent? What is costing so much?
 
JMJ_coder said:
Note: I fully support this study. I fully recognize that the Vatican has the right, authority, and obligation to conduct this study. I fully agree that Catholics have the duty to provide for the material well-being of the Church. If I had money, I would support paying for this study.

That being said – why do they need $1.1 million for this study? How exactly is this money being spent? What is costing so much?
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The cost covers many things.
  1. The expenses of the actual study, such as administrative expenses. All the information has to be gathered, read and consolidated. This is done by a team that has to be paid. This team will be working on this for about a year or maybe two.
  2. You have to pay the bishops, clerics and religious who are working on the study. They are taking time from their other duties. It is not fair for them take this time while being paid and not doing the job that they are being paid for. Therefore, they have to get paid by someone.
  3. There are other expenses such as travel costs. Bishops, religious and clerics will be flying all over the country and back and forth between the USA and Rome. That is not cheap. There are airfares, hotels, meals and other expenses that have to be covered.
  4. The religious congregations under investigation are not being charged for the study. Many of them do not have the money. Many have older sisters for whom they care. There are often more older sisters who need care than younger sisters bringing money into the community.
But if you think about it, there are more than 1.1 million Catholics in the USA. This adds up to a few cents per Catholic.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
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