Outrage over Vatican request for $1.1 million to fund sisters investigation (National Catholic Reporter)

[otjm]

Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and for Societies of Apostolic Life
Dicastery of the Roman Curia

Address: Palazzo della Congregazioni, Piazza Pio XII, 3, 00193 Roma, Italy

Phone: 06.69.88.41.28

OK, so who wants to put their money where their mouth is?

And better yet, given the use of the Internet in the last election by the winning candidate, anyone out there with the knowledge and the moxie to get something started?

 

[JReducation]

Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and for Societies of Apostolic Life
Dicastery of the Roman Curia

Address: Palazzo della Congregazioni, Piazza Pio XII, 3, 00193 Roma, Italy

Phone: 06.69.88.41.28

OK, so who wants to put their money where their mouth is?

And better yet, given the use of the Internet in the last election by the winning candidate, anyone out there with the knowledge and the moxie to get something started?

I don’t believe that the Sacred Congregation accepts donations that way. They have to go through your diocese.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[otjm]

I don’t believe that the Sacred Congregation accepts donations that way. They have to go through your diocese.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Um, they are primarily run by Italians. So I am nost so sure I would bet the farm on that one. Who knows, they might send them back, or just imply put them in a file. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. But I would consider the Italians bright enough to not pass up a partial solution to a problem.

And Brother, I have always admired your demeanor; but do you really think Mahoney, Cardinal though he may be, will write a check for this? My reading was that Rome was asking for donations from the bishops, not sending a bill for serveices rendered or to be rendered. I generally stay out of the “Cardinal Mahoney is so liberal he has fallen off the left side of the Earth” routine that shows its head periodically, but unless Rome has a means of extracting money thrrough a “request”, I am thinking this is going to be a lopsided collection. I have no doubt there will be bishops more than willing to back it. I also suspect we will be able to raise at least part of it, but given the state of the economy and the number of dioceses which have cut back staff, not to mention the number of bankruptcies over the sex abuse scandal, I am not convinced it is a done deal. maybe they shoud be talking to the former owner of Dominoes, as he is a willing contributor. It may not be pocket change to him, but he has written larger checks.

 

[JReducation]

Um, they are primarily run by Italians. So I am nost so sure I would bet the farm on that one. Who knows, they might send them back, or just imply put them in a file. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. But I would consider the Italians bright enough to not pass up a partial solution to a problem.

And Brother, I have always admired your demeanor; but do you really think Mahoney, Cardinal though he may be, will write a check for this? My reading was that Rome was asking for donations from the bishops, not sending a bill for serveices rendered or to be rendered. I generally stay out of the “Cardinal Mahoney is so liberal he has fallen off the left side of the Earth” routine that shows its head periodically, but unless Rome has a means of extracting money thrrough a “request”, I am thinking this is going to be a lopsided collection. I have no doubt there will be bishops more than willing to back it. I also suspect we will be able to raise at least part of it, but given the state of the economy and the number of dioceses which have cut back staff, not to mention the number of bankruptcies over the sex abuse scandal, I am not convinced it is a done deal. maybe they shoud be talking to the former owner of Dominoes, as he is a willing contributor. It may not be pocket change to him, but he has written larger checks.

I believe that this is a legitimate question. However, since the request was made to through the USCCB, I think that it would look pretty tacky not to support this project. Also, Cardinal O’Malley is the bishop for Religious on the USCCB and he is also one of the undersecretaries of the Sacred Congregation for Intstitutes of Religious Life and Societies of Apostolic Life. Knowing him as well as I do, I believe that in his own gentle and diplomatic way, he can be very persuasive. He is a very trusted and respected member of the USCCB and a trusted and respected religious brother. He’s a Capuchin Franciscan Brother. One of the bishops on the team who is doing the actual investigating is Archbishop Chaput, also a respected member of the USCCB and also a respected religious brother. Chaput is also a Capuchin Franciscan Brother. I know these men well. Our community was part of the Capuchin community.

Don’t take my confidence to the bank. I’m not poor simply because I made a vow. I’m also a lousy gambler.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[rep140]

Our Rust Belt diocese is struggling with increased demand from our outreach services combined with declining contributions, all due to the current economic downturn. Who really pays attention to these dissenting sisters anyway?

 

[dmfette]

Sorry, but I have some serious concerns over the way many of our religious orders are conducting themselves, and am glad to help fund the “visitations”. Do they think they should not be accountable to the Holy Father and the rest of the church for what they teach, for the errors they spread? I think they would be happy to welcome the visitation to ensure they are in line with the Magisterium. After all, what could they possibly be trying to hide?

Last time I looked, obedience was a virtue.

…peace be with you jacie…really…

…read malachi martin’s the jesuits…if will give you an idea of what has happened to obedience as a virtue in catholic faith…thank you for making your post as you have…

…peace—>mark

 

[otjm]

Our Rust Belt diocese is struggling with increased demand from our outreach services combined with declining contributions, all due to the current economic downturn. Who really pays attention to these dissenting sisters anyway?

To answer your question: altogether too many people sitting in the pews, and too many who should be sitting in the pews.

 

[dmfette]

I believe that this is a legitimate question. However, since the request was made to through the USCCB, I think that it would look pretty tacky not to support this project. Also, Cardinal O’Malley is the bishop for Religious on the USCCB and he is also one of the undersecretaries of the Sacred Congregation for Intstitutes of Religious Life and Societies of Apostolic Life. Knowing him as well as I do, I believe that in his own gentle and diplomatic way, he can be very persuasive. He is a very trusted and respected member of the USCCB and a trusted and respected religious brother. He’s a Capuchin Franciscan Brother. One of the bishops on the team who is doing the actual investigating is Archbishop Chaput, also a respected member of the USCCB and also a respected religious brother. Chaput is also a Capuchin Franciscan Brother. I know these men well. Our community was part of the Capuchin community.

Don’t take my confidence to the bank. I’m not poor simply because I made a vow. I’m also a lousy gambler.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

…peace be with you br.jr…really…

…lol…what happens in las vegas, stays in las vegas…i think st. francis de sales would be pleased with your wit…seriously, if you were to place bets on the future of the society of Jesus at the roulette table, would it be black or red?..on what number do you think the bouncing ball would finally rest?.."…round and round she goes, where it stops…"

…peace—>mark

 

[manualman]

Our Rust Belt diocese is struggling with increased demand from our outreach services combined with declining contributions, all due to the current economic downturn. Who really pays attention to these dissenting sisters anyway?

Are you serious??? Look at who it is in MANY dioceses across the US that are the diocesan official responsible for selecting CCD and catholic school curricula. If the book ain’t on the approved list, it CAN’T be used by the parish or school. As often as not, the official gatekeeper is Sister Moonbeam.

I have in my posession a copy of the 2nd grade “Faith & Life” textbook as well as the 2nd grade “Blest are We” text. The former is superb: complete, succint, excellent with appropriate and beatiful artwork, illustrations and photographs (OK that last one is a little weak). The latter can be charitably described as “Fuzzy Bunny Catechesis.” Guess which one is ‘approved’ in an unnamed local diocese around here and which one is not? Yup, the excellent one is not allowed, the lame one is virtually required. WHY!!??!!!

And that’s just one example. Religious sisters are a crucial part of the diocesan and parish workforce. They can wield enormous power behind the scenes, for good or for evil. Pray for 'em.

 

[Brendan]

Who really pays attention to these dissenting sisters anyway?

The Vatican…which is whole point of the thread.

 

[reggieM]

Are you serious??? Look at who it is in MANY dioceses across the US that are the diocesan official responsible for selecting CCD and catholic school curricula. If the book ain’t on the approved list, it CAN’T be used by the parish or school. As often as not, the official gatekeeper is Sister Moonbeam.

I have in my posession a copy of the 2nd grade “Faith & Life” textbook as well as the 2nd grade “Blest are We” text. The former is superb: complete, succint, excellent with appropriate and beatiful artwork, illustrations and photographs (OK that last one is a little weak). The latter can be charitably described as “Fuzzy Bunny Catechesis.” Guess which one is ‘approved’ in an unnamed local diocese around here and which one is not? Yup, the excellent one is not allowed, the lame one is virtually required. WHY!!??!!!

And that’s just one example. Religious sisters are a crucial part of the diocesan and parish workforce. They can wield enormous power behind the scenes, for good or for evil. Pray for 'em.

Excellent points. Sisters can indeed wield enormous power. When they’re good, they’re an unstoppable force for the faith – building generations on a solid foundation.

The fact that they’ve collapsed into the kind of nonsense catechesis that you mentioned is one of the major reasons why the Church is not growing at the rate it should be.

The Faith and Life series should be used, but it’s usually shut down by the educational directors. I’ve seen the same thing in my diocese. Thankfully, Rome knows of this problem now and some good changes may be on the horizon.

 

[JReducation]

Excellent points. Sisters can indeed wield enormous power. When they’re good, they’re an unstoppable force for the faith – building generations on a solid foundation.

The fact that they’ve collapsed into the kind of nonsense catechesis that you mentioned is one of the major reasons why the Church is not growing at the rate it should be.

The Faith and Life series should be used, but it’s usually shut down by the educational directors. I’ve seen the same thing in my diocese. Thankfully, Rome knows of this problem now and some good changes may be on the horizon.

I teach grade 6 Old Testament. I took the easy way. I put aside the religious ed book and I teach the kids directly from the Bible and from my seminary notes. Of course I make it simple for them, bu they love it. They especially love when I have the write some of the quotes from the OT in Hebrew and have them say them in the old language. Then we discuss their theological content. From there we go to the New Testament and to the CCC where we learn the connection between the OT, NT and Church. This way the kids learn doctrine as well as Bible History.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[miguel]

Are you serious??? Look at who it is in MANY dioceses across the US that are the diocesan official responsible for selecting CCD and catholic school curricula. If the book ain’t on the approved list, it CAN’T be used by the parish or school. As often as not, the official gatekeeper is Sister Moonbeam.

I have in my posession a copy of the 2nd grade “Faith & Life” textbook as well as the 2nd grade “Blest are We” text. The former is superb: complete, succint, excellent with appropriate and beatiful artwork, illustrations and photographs (OK that last one is a little weak). The latter can be charitably described as “Fuzzy Bunny Catechesis.” Guess which one is ‘approved’ in an unnamed local diocese around here and which one is not? Yup, the excellent one is not allowed, the lame one is virtually required. WHY!!??!!!

And that’s just one example. Religious sisters are a crucial part of the diocesan and parish workforce. They can wield enormous power behind the scenes, for good or for evil. Pray for 'em.

I have a similar story about the “Faith and Life” series. Several years ago, early 90s, I attended the annual LA Religious Ed Congress. Ignatius Press had a booth (now that I think of it, that’s amazing in itself). I remember speaking to them about their excellent series. They told me Sister Moonbeam (must be related to Governor Moonbeam) came around and told them to remove the series from their display. But they got special permission from Cardinal Mahoney (they caught him while he was walking around) to display it anyway. It’s not like there wasn’t any other heretical material to be found. I also tried to get the DRE to consider replacing the watered-down series in use at my parish with “Faith and Life” and was told the same thing…it wasn’t approved. So it’s not just stupidity. There is active undermining going on. Donna Steichen discussed this strategy in “Ungodly Rage”. People wonder why all these heretics and dissenters don’t just leave? Because outside the Church, no one listens to 'em. The best way to undermine what they oppose is from within.

 

[Ockham]

Hopefully, we are entering the dusk of the Age of Aquarius and the Church can recover from the damage done.

 

[charlieg1234]

I agree that it’s outrageous for the Vatican to impose an uninvited investigation (for what many obviously consider questionable reasons) and then after the fact have the gall to ask others to pay for it. If the Vatican really thought such an investigation was essential to the faith and unity of the Church, the Vatican should pay for it (imho). THis is particularly outrageous given the obvious scandal that numerous people in the Church hierarchy have given to the Church (and world) regarding sexual abuse, and the financial repercussions this has had on all of us Catholics.

Diggerdomer, it would be nice if you could think in a straight line but somehow/somewhere your synapses have crossed. You talk about the Vatican, equate it with the Church; then you talk about the Church hierarchy - obviously referring to the US bishops - and state how they have scandalized the Church (and world). You then say it’s outrageous that the Vatican should want to investigate a current situation when, if they had investigated the previous scandalous situation, it might have been prevented from growing to the proportions it did. Perhaps, the problem is that you think more about your money than is spiritually healthy. Consider the Church in Rome as shepherding its flock here in America by insuring that those who tend the sheep are working within the guidelines Holy Mother Church sets down. The costs of such an investigation should be born by those who necessitate it. Some of our bishops have been espousing married priests and women priests, in contradiction to what our Holy Father has definitively stated, and thereby created the necessity for this investigation.

 

[Ockham]

Charlie, it seems some people are more loyal to the USCCB and its GIRM then the Church and its structure.

 

[JReducation]

Diggerdomer, it would be nice if you could think in a straight line but somehow/somewhere your synapses have crossed. You talk about the Vatican, equate it with the Church; then you talk about the Church hierarchy - obviously referring to the US bishops - and state how they have scandalized the Church (and world). You then say it’s outrageous that the Vatican should want to investigate a current situation when, if they had investigated the previous scandalous situation, it might have been prevented from growing to the proportions it did. Perhaps, the problem is that you think more about your money than is spiritually healthy. Consider the Church in Rome as shepherding its flock here in America by insuring that those who tend the sheep are working within the guidelines Holy Mother Church sets down. The costs of such an investigation should be born by those who necessitate it. Some of our bishops have been espousing married priests and women priests, in contradiction to what our Holy Father has definitively stated, and thereby created the necessity for this investigation./QUOTE]

Bold is mine.

The bishops are not under investigation and niether are all women religious. Only those women religious who belong to the National Conference of Women Religious are under investigation. I believe that’s about 68,000 sisters.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[reggieM]

The bishops should definitely be under investigation, but the 68,000 religious are a good start at least.

 

[JReducation]

The bishops should definitely be under investigation, but the 68,000 religious are a good start at least.

The way that the Sacred Congregation for Bishops operates is very different. They deal with each bishop individually. To take on an entire conference of bishops would be a challenge to the episcopacy. The Church cannot do that. Even though the pope is the Vicar of Christ, he governs with the bishops. He cannot put them under a microscope, in a public manner, and ask the faithful to obey them. That would be chaotic and catastrophic. The bishops are Ordinaries. They have a different rank than women religious do.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[diggerdomer]

Diggerdomer, it would be nice if you could think in a straight line but somehow/somewhere your synapses have crossed. You talk about the Vatican, equate it with the Church; then you talk about the Church hierarchy - obviously referring to the US bishops - and state how they have scandalized the Church (and world). You then say it’s outrageous that the Vatican should want to investigate a current situation when, if they had investigated the previous scandalous situation, it might have been prevented from growing to the proportions it did. Perhaps, the problem is that you think more about your money than is spiritually healthy. Consider the Church in Rome as shepherding its flock here in America by insuring that those who tend the sheep are working within the guidelines Holy Mother Church sets down. The costs of such an investigation should be born by those who necessitate it. Some of our bishops have been espousing married priests and women priests, in contradiction to what our Holy Father has definitively stated, and thereby created the necessity for this investigation.

Married priests are not a contradiction to what the Holy Father teaches. They are a fact in the Catholic Church.

I’m not worried about my money, I contribute faithfully to my parish and diocese.

I’m bothered by the money issue because according to the article (if you haven’t read it, please do) it was stated that the person running the investigation initially said that the USCCB would not be paying for it. Now, later, comes the request for money, which I think is at least a PR gaffe.

Also, it’s never been publicly adequately explained, imho, why there are TWO separate investigations going on, particularly in light of problems that are much more well known and widespread than U.S. women religious.