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Wolseley
Guest
I say again: contact Rome, and let them know of the shell game going on
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ElizabethAnne
Guest
I cannot speak for the OP, but there are many Catholic couples out there who are trying to save money on their wedding while still being mindful of the importance of the sacrament. My husband and I were married two years ago. I was just out of college with $20,000 in loans and a loan on my used car. We do not make a lot of money, had some modest credit card debt and live in Boston of all places.
We spent $4,000 on the entire reception, including food and the DJ. Our “favors” were prayer cards. Our flowers were potted and from a local greenhouse (very inexpensive). My dress was $400. We were married in my mother’s parish in New Hampshire. My husband’s brother presided at the ceremony. We are blessed with many talented musician friends who planned and played all our music. My mother, who was in the choir at the parish, set up the equipment and put it away. If we had needed to pay another $1,300 for the “wedding coordinator,” I am not sure how we would have come up with it. As it was, we had tried to do everything as inexpensively as possible.
That said, now that my husband and I are a bit more financially stable, I want to look into making a more substancial donation to that parish (especially since we are not parishioners there and are not contributing weekly). But I think requiring such a large amount for coordination is really a deterrent to young Catholic couples trying to live within their means and start families someday soon.
We spent $4,000 on the entire reception, including food and the DJ. Our “favors” were prayer cards. Our flowers were potted and from a local greenhouse (very inexpensive). My dress was $400. We were married in my mother’s parish in New Hampshire. My husband’s brother presided at the ceremony. We are blessed with many talented musician friends who planned and played all our music. My mother, who was in the choir at the parish, set up the equipment and put it away. If we had needed to pay another $1,300 for the “wedding coordinator,” I am not sure how we would have come up with it. As it was, we had tried to do everything as inexpensively as possible.
That said, now that my husband and I are a bit more financially stable, I want to look into making a more substancial donation to that parish (especially since we are not parishioners there and are not contributing weekly). But I think requiring such a large amount for coordination is really a deterrent to young Catholic couples trying to live within their means and start families someday soon.
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cascherman
Guest
my wife says that for us to get married at an abbey in alabama, it was not over 200 for building, priest, rehearsal, everything. I don’t know where they are coming from thinking that is an okay price.
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Tig
Guest
Apparently, with some, they are for sale. I can see the embarrassment, anger etc. caused due to this. The leaving… Wonder how much Christ charged for a healing etc… How infinitely sad…
-Peace-
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PaixGioiaAmor
Guest
I still sympathize with the parish.
I see these rich kids getting married around here. They will tell you that they are paying $10,000 for their hall point blank. Then they routinely do not pay me to be their organist or make any donation to the parish, nor pay the priest a stipend. I have been “stiffed” more times than I can count as the extravagant limos pull away.
I have no sympathy for this “outrageous fee.”
By the way, as far as not being refused a sacrament for not being able to pay, thats right; So if you don’t want to pay, the priest must still marry you - but you don’t get to call the shots at all. He can simply marry you at a time convenient to him in a small liturgy in the Church - with no decorations, runners, programs, etc. allowed to make the lives of the pastor and staff easier.
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PatienceAndLove
Guest
The average wedding cost is $24,000
I did mine for $8,000 (my parents wanted some extra stuff at the reception)
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Al_Masetti
Guest
The Sacrament is free. No charge. A priest or deacon can marry you after work on a weekday in the church building in the sanctuary. You can even invite your friends. But if you want music, and the parish staff, and the rest of the “whole production number”, those extras … which are NOT part of the Sacrament … may involve extra costs.
Apparently, with some, they are for sale. I can see the embarrassment, anger etc. caused due to this. The leaving… Wonder how much Christ charged for a healing etc… How infinitely sad…
-Peace-
The Sacrament, in fact, only takes a couple of minutes. Priest or Deacon, the couple, and two witnesses.
Check with the rubrics. However, the Sacrament possibly does not even need to be administered in the church building. Could possibly be done in the office with the two secretaries as witnesses.
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CatholicNerd
Guest
Celebrating the sacrament of Holy Matrimony in the context of The Mass is a blessed tradition that the West practices. We do not want to give our family (or ANYONE else) the impression that marriage is a quick&easy thing that can be done in a sacristy. It can, but why would you if both bride and groom are Catholic?
Because we live in a nation that allows us complete and total freedom of religion, we fully intend to avail ourselves of the right to be married during Mass. That’s in the rubrics, too
There are so many Catholics in the world who can’t even go to Mass. We’re thankful, and we’re appreciative, but we also don’t believe in paying junk fees. We’d rather give $1,350 to Peter’s Pence than someone who doesn’t need the money and who won’t actually be doing ANYTHING for us.
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CatholicNerd
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Amen, amen, amen.
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YADA
Guest
Perhaps that is part of the problem…you do not see the need of your parish [allthough you call it home] and you see this priest as a person who is not doing anything for YOU…
I am not sure why you are bringing in a priest to marry you or where the other ‘players’ are coming from…
It is hard to tell from your post that you are aware of how your parish operates even though you sing in the choir and contribute…
Typically speaking [at least in our diocese and in my understanding] priests are not paid stipends [and do not accept them]. In the past, the stipend was how priests suppprted themselves…they now recieve a salary and have in place a retirement and social sercurity…
That said, when my daughter got married we gave the officiating priest a check…he handed it bak with instructions to write another one in that amount for the new couple [we did]. Most priests I know accept the stipend when offered but turn it over to the parish [or some othr charity].
If this is a new priest…he may not be aware that some of the costs [pre-cana, etc] were [or are] collected seperately…
Perhaps your parish does not recieve enough from the Sunday collections to cover operating costs, and this fee for the exclusive use of the church supplements the Sunday collections…
The cost does seem high but we have no information [financial or othrwise] about your parish to make a real determination…we are only receiving your side of the equation. We do not know what the utility bills are, cost of insurance [especially for an event like this] Will the reception be held at a praish facility too? If yes, will alcohol be served? Hosted bar or unhosted…all thes things are factors…
How long have you both been parishioners? 6 months or 6 years, can make a difference. Is your support both financial and volunteer? Are you contributing near the diocesan average [which for my diocese is about $6/week - not a huge amount]
BUT I can see where catholics who value the Eucharist at a level of $320 per year would be appalled at the use of th parish for one mass to be $1350.
Personnally, to have Jesus present in such a way at my wedding, after He gave His Life for me and left me a Church to witness my nuptials…Well it seems a bargain…and way to little…
As some posters have suggested … you need to sit with the priest and hace a discussion…loose the attitude first, though…
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ElizaE
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I do not think you read what the OP wrote. The OP has paid for all the costs of using the building, pre-cana, stipend for the priest, musician fees, clean up, etc, etc. This fee is just something extra.
He also was not saying that the priest would not be doing something for them. He was talking about this "wedding coordinator " . That is the service that they would not require. If $1350 is to supplement the parish income than they need to tell the couple that… not make up the excuse of a wedding coordinator to charge people an extra amount. This fee is just for the wedding coordinator. Personally, I see a wedding coordinator as an extravagance, something that I would have loved to have to make sure that everything ran smoothly, but could not afford.
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YADA
Guest
From the initial post:
somewhere along in the posts I thought it was mentioned that this was a new priest…perhaps in his last assignment, thisngs were different…
But clearly the focus [including the OP] became the 'wedding coordinator - which he said was mandatory. But just as clearly, this is also tied to the USE OF THE CHURCH BUILDING.
That includes the utility costs [gas, water, electricity], Insurance adn liability issues [are they just using the church for the mass or for both the mass and the reception?], hosts and sacramental wine, vestments, altar linens, candles, etc.
While tthe charge is steep, but I believe there is probably a reason…
truly do you really believe that the Church uses wedding fees for Carribean Cruises?
And for getting married in a home parish…it seems that they have imported a lot of foriegn personnel to perform the deed…perhaps the coordinator is required to insure a ‘local’ staff representative…
the OP stated that this cost included the use of the building…so they have not already paid for that cost…he did say that he paid for the Pre cana…my question was did the priest know that the pre-cana was paid seperately…
somewhere along in the posts I thought it was mentioned that this was a new priest…perhaps in his last assignment, thisngs were different…
But clearly the focus [including the OP] became the 'wedding coordinator - which he said was mandatory. But just as clearly, this is also tied to the USE OF THE CHURCH BUILDING.
That includes the utility costs [gas, water, electricity], Insurance adn liability issues [are they just using the church for the mass or for both the mass and the reception?], hosts and sacramental wine, vestments, altar linens, candles, etc.
While tthe charge is steep, but I believe there is probably a reason…
truly do you really believe that the Church uses wedding fees for Carribean Cruises?
And for getting married in a home parish…it seems that they have imported a lot of foriegn personnel to perform the deed…perhaps the coordinator is required to insure a ‘local’ staff representative…
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Al_Masetti
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I may be out of my depth here … and this thread is getting pretty emotional… nevertheless … it seems to me that getting married with a Mass used to be a special privilege … not a right.
The vast majority of weddings that I have attended were wedding ceremonies, not nuptial Masses.
The vast majority of weddings that I have attended were wedding ceremonies, not nuptial Masses.
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CatholicNerd
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Well, it hasn’t been her home for long. Just a little under a year, in fact. I’m not even in the city yet (though I’ve been down to play for Mass on several occasions. Pays enough for the plane fare, so they’re not exactly hurting for money)! And anyway, there’s a reason for the “foreigners,” as you call them: My fiancée and I come from a very orthodox and liturgically robust parish in Spokane. The priest we have invited to celebrate our wedding Mass is a personal friend.
The community in which our Schola sang grew and earned the respect of clergy across the diocese in part because of Fr.'s leadership and willingness to try and be a permanent priest for us. He’s a great guy, he knows us personally and we have a good sacramental relationship with him, and most importantly he doesn’t screw with the Mass.
Our sacristan is a tireless laborer for that little chapel. Never have I seen liturgical vessels gleam week after week like that. His altar linens are always crisp and treated as holy things. He’s also a fabulous MC, who has served Mass for His Grace at the Cathedral. And he and father are the best of friends, so there’s not any kind of tension or clash in vision. If father wants smells and bells, he gets them.
Our servers are familiar with the duties of altar servers as outlined by current liturgical law, and are familiar with the trappings of the old ritual that were not abrogated. We need competent torch-bearers, and since we have to import them, import them we shall.
Saint Paul referred to marriage as a “Great Sacrament” and a figure of “Christ and the Church.” We want our Mass to reflect that, by celebrating as solemn a liturgy as we are permitted by liturgical law. To be frank, **you don’t get that here **. Not according to the Ordinary form, anyway, and that’s what we want.
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dixieagle
Guest
It sounds to me as if you might need another line of work!!! If things like this happen routinely in your parish, then perhaps there should be specific fees for use of the organist, clean-up, etc. - things that are certainly justifiable.
The OP clearly indicates that he and his bride-to-be will be willingly paying stipends, etc. and are obviously not getting married in church just to please their parents. There also seem to be plenty of other, legitimate, fees connected with the church ceremomy that they are paying. They are certainly not the type of couple for which you would need the follow-up counseling sessions you mention!
What about young couples who cannot pay? Will they be turned away from their home parish? I find this very short-sighted behavior on the part of the parish (clearly they have already shot themselves in the foot judging by the way the number of weddings has drastically decreased.)
If a couple is being married outside their home parish then I can understand fees being imposed; we will willingly pay the fee associated with having our daughter’s wedding in our Cathedral, rather than our parish…no problem! If, however, the wedding took place in our own parish, the fees would be minimal at most - exactly as it should be, I feel.
The parish should be thrilled that a fine young couple like this wants to be married in a Catholic ceremony and not throw substantial financial obstacles in their way.
(To the OP; to mention something unpleasant, though certainly not unheard-of - are you sure the money is going to the parish and that the wedding coordinator is not lining her pockets? Sorry to be suspicious, but this grows out of several recent incidents of church-related embezzlement…)
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dixieagle
Guest
Excellent post!I think young people preparing to marry are faced with incredible pressure from family and others to go the whole nine yards with the wedding and reception. I believe this contributes to the prevalence of couples cohabitating before marriage – they have to “save up” and move in to reduce individual living costs.
It IS true that a couple can be married during a regular parish mass, but they can’t expect anything extra – no special songs, no special readings, no choices about flowers (unless worked out with the environment coordinator), no special parking areas for their guests, etc. Perhaps they can reserve a couple of pews for family members, just as Confirmands and first communicants have pews reserved.
I recall reading in some Church document that people aren’t to be charged to prepare or receive the sacraments, but I know that even children and teens are charged in preparing for the Eucharist and Confirmation in many parishes.
I skimmed through the Code of Canon Law – the following sections seem relevant to what’s been discussed in this thread, but doesn’t address the huge administrative fee charged to the OP.
Can. 212 §2. The Christian faithful are free to make known to the pastors of the Church their needs, especially spiritual ones, and their desires.
Can. 212 §3. According to the knowledge, competence, and prestige which they possess, they have the right and even at times the duty to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church and to make their opinion known to the rest of the Christian faithful, without prejudice to the integrity of faith and morals, with reverence toward their pastors, and attentive to common advantage and the dignity of persons.
Can. 213 The Christian faithful have the right to receive assistance from the sacred pastors out of the spiritual goods of the Church, especially the word of God and the sacraments.
Can. 848 The minister is to seek nothing for the administration of the sacraments beyond the offerings defined by competent authority, always taking care that the needy are not deprived of the assistance of the sacraments because of poverty.
vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_INDEX.HTM
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YADA
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So why aren’t you getting married in your Robust Parish in Spokane…I have no idea what the plane fare references…This parish pays you to fly in with parish funds to sing with the schola? You then think they have too much or enough money?
You seem relunctant to speak with the parish priest…
Did you walk in and say “we want to use your parish building [for no cost] but want nothing to do with your participation or that of your staff?”
In less than a year of membership, what do you know about the parish, its financial affairs and how its utilizes those funds?
I know many priests, not one would turn a person of need away from a sacrament requested…Weddings can be performed during the regular scheduled Sunday or Daily Mass, I attended one in Guatemala when I went to Mass at the posted times. Very nicely done, ribbons on pews, an orchestra played the numptials were performed, the wedding guests and the regular parishioners all enjoyed the Mass and the wedding ceremony. As it was a resort area tourists were ambling around as well…
But when a person requests a building for exclusive use for them and their guests, that is another apple…you never said whether you wre also having your reception there at the parish…
And discussing here in this forum, does not get to the heart of the matter…speak with the priest…rightious indignation without facts, figures and rational is not really rightous indignation.
Your insinuations of how un-pious and orthodox this parish is and how more knowledeable you are speaks volumes…I am wondering why you want to be members of this parish if it is so awful and liturgically bankrupt?
You seem relunctant to speak with the parish priest…
Did you walk in and say “we want to use your parish building [for no cost] but want nothing to do with your participation or that of your staff?”
In less than a year of membership, what do you know about the parish, its financial affairs and how its utilizes those funds?
I know many priests, not one would turn a person of need away from a sacrament requested…Weddings can be performed during the regular scheduled Sunday or Daily Mass, I attended one in Guatemala when I went to Mass at the posted times. Very nicely done, ribbons on pews, an orchestra played the numptials were performed, the wedding guests and the regular parishioners all enjoyed the Mass and the wedding ceremony. As it was a resort area tourists were ambling around as well…
But when a person requests a building for exclusive use for them and their guests, that is another apple…you never said whether you wre also having your reception there at the parish…
And discussing here in this forum, does not get to the heart of the matter…speak with the priest…rightious indignation without facts, figures and rational is not really rightous indignation.
Your insinuations of how un-pious and orthodox this parish is and how more knowledeable you are speaks volumes…I am wondering why you want to be members of this parish if it is so awful and liturgically bankrupt?
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mdgspencer
Guest
Why not pay it and then take it out of your contributions to the parish until you get your money back if you think this is improper?
As we’ve covered in previous posts, this nebulous $1350 fee does not cover things like marriage prep, pre-cana, the consultation with the priest, etc. We’ve already paid for thatWe, our sacristan, and our priest are intimately familiar with the Roman Missal, its instructions, and pious liturgical tradition.
Frankly, we do not *need *the wedding coordinator to even be there. We know exactly what the Church asks, requires, and the permissions she affords, and we do not intend to deviate from that one bit. If there’s any ambiguity, we’ve all got copies of the GIRM, *Ceremonies of the Modern Roman Rite, *and The Rituale Romanum. I don’t mean to sound like I’m getting frustrated. I just want everyone to know where we stand.
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rpp
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What you describe here is extortion. Is that what you learned in your “training”? What about people without a lot of money? What do you do, force them to get married at the regular 7:45 AM Wednesday morning Mass?
You advocate the denial of sacraments to those who cannot pay while extorting money from those whom you think can.
That is not consistent with Catholic teachings.
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Ray_Scheel
Guest
~ So, would you support a similar fee for, say, first communion or confirmation masses, where those not willing to shell out several hundred each for the group event didn’t get to participate, even if it was the participants, their parents, and other volunteers organizing, funding, and handling all the details like music, decorations, programs, etc?
It had already been established that the pastor and staff were not having to deal with the complications you mentioned, so seems you are singling out the sacrament of marriage for what would be an outrageous fee going to the liturgist over and beyond what the building cost could reasonably be.
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