Outside the Church there is no salvation

[tqualey]

Hi, Luke65,

I think your scriptural quotes are right on target.

There appears to be a lot of bitterness in Golfjack’s posts - and considering the amount of time he says he has left the Catholic Chruch…and here he is on CAF… I am just wondering what is going on?

“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9)

Should we listen to God or should we listen to you? You know, you can do it God’s way or you can do it your way - its your free will. But here is God’s way:

“Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.” (Matthew 11:29)

“Humble yourselves, therefore, under God’s mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time.” (1 Peter 5:6)

“The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you.” (Matthew 23:2-3)

“Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account.” (Hebrews 13:17)

God bless,

 

[golfjack]

TQ, I am not bitter at all. I am extremely grateful to be part of God’s kingdom. While a Catholic, I don’t know if I would have made it. If you don’t want me here, just say so. I find that many Catholics don’t like opposition. But when I preach to people, and believe me, some our Cathoilics, I get wide acceptance.
Peace, Golfjack

 

[steve_b]

TQ, I am not bitter at all. I am extremely grateful to be part of God’s kingdom. While a Catholic, I don’t know if I would have made it. If you don’t want me here, just say so. I find that many Catholics don’t like opposition. But when I preach to people, and believe me, some our Cathoilics, I get wide acceptance.

Peace, Golfjack

What do you preach about?

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Golfjack,

I am glad you don’t think you are bitter.

As to staying or leaving that is up to you. Your comments on CAF about being glad to be out of the Catholic Church seem strange at best… and, in reality, approaching the disingenuious.

TQ, I am not bitter at all. I am extremely grateful to be part of God’s kingdom. While a Catholic, I don’t know if I would have made it. If you don’t want me here, just say so. I find that many Catholics don’t like opposition. But when I preach to people, and believe me, some our Cathoilics, I get wide acceptance. Peace, Golfjack

When it comes to actually knowing what the Catholic Chruch teaches, your claims keep coming up short - actually, it appears that all you know is what Protestants erroneously teach about the Catholic Faith. Seriously, you have yet to come up with one clearly stated Catholic doctrine that actually matches what the Catholic Church teaches. You know it is one thing to leave a group because you understand what is going on (as we have heard from the various former-Protestants who are now Catholics…) but, it is quite another to have never known something and then get carried away with the emotionalism that appears to be the basis of the ‘…spirit filled church…’. Actually, that reminds me of a story… And, you can find the story of the Sower in Matt 13:1-23 and Mark 4:1-25. I won’t go over the details … but, I would direct your attention to those seeds who fell on shallow ground or in the weeds. They were good seeds … but, had lost their initial faith. Unlike seeds - we have legs … and can move to to where we want to be. From what I have seen, you have chosen the shallow ground…and, there is a problem there…

It could be just me, but the only “…wide acceptance…” I would anticipate is from the equally disaffected.

You claim to cling to the Bible - and, this comes from the Catholic Chruch that you reject.
You claim to follow Christ - but, Christ established Peter as the Rock for his Church
You claim to honor Christ - and Christ gave us the Sacrament of His Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity not available in your church.
You claim to believe Christ you announced that Baptism is necessary and instructed the Apostles to baptize all.
You claim to believe in the Holy Spirit - but, that Spirit was only promised to Catholic Church.

Every where that I hve seen, your claims of being a Christian by rejecting Christ’s Church just ring hollow. Many have attempted to provide you with the correct information, specific to the actual teaching of the Catholic Church, but you have made a point to reject their efforts. Just what is it you expect to accomplish on this site?

 

[golfjack]

Please show me where it says that the Holy Spirit was promised to the Catholic church? One of the problems I see with your church is that is based on many assumptions. If there is a place here, I would be happy to debate with you about Catholic doctrine compared to my beliefs. Are you up to the challenge?
Peace, Golfjack

 

[teak421]

Please show me where it says that the Holy Spirit was promised to the Catholic church? One of the problems I see with your church is that is based on many assumptions. If there is a place here, I would be happy to debate with you about Catholic doctrine compared to my beliefs. Are you up to the challenge?

     Peace,   Golfjack

Lets start with Sola Scriptura. Can you support the tradition of Sola Scriptura with actual scripture verses and historical evidence? Where in the Bible does it say the Bible is the sole rule of faith and doctrines for all things Christian. Additionally, can you show any early Church Fathers that support the tradition of Sola Scriptura. I would prefer to see historical evidence from around the 4th or 5th century.

This is the key Protestant doctrine and worth discussing as a foundation to all future discussions.

Take care…

• Michael

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Golfjack,

In answer to your question … here is a link that WILL ANSWER ALL OF YOUR QUESTIONS… if you are able to read it, this will show that YOU are up to any challenge you can come up with!

scripturecatholic.com.

Please show me where it says that the Holy Spirit was promised to the Catholic church? One of the problems I see with your church is that is based on many assumptions. If there is a place here, I would be happy to debate with you about Catholic doctrine compared to my beliefs. Are you up to the challenge? Peace, Golfjack

Now, you have something that will give you all of the scriptural references for the beliefs of the Catholic Faith. Imagine that… ah… but, you have to read them to get the answers you claim to want.

The proof of your sincerity is that if you have a question, you will provide the answers given in this link and then ask for MORE information or another explanation…

Continuing on in the manner you have been doing - will demonstrate INSINCERITY (at least to me…) and just will not be acceptable (at least to me…) - and, I just won’t respond back.

Besides, you will find most of the answers provided in the Bible you are holding! The difference is that you will not be able to come up with your own interpretation… The material given will be from the Magisterium of the Catholic Church and is backed by the Holy Spirit as being free of error. Get started on this reading assignment - if YOU are up to the challenge!

Imagine that…

God bless

 

[golfjack]

tq, I have read most of the link you posted. Of course, I still disagree with most of the Catholic church teachings because they don’t line up with God’s Word. I guess we will both find out who is right some day. I put all of my trust on what Jesus has done for me, His finished work on the cross. Believe me, sins are remitted only by His precious blood. I do not need a priest to say I am forgiven of my sin. The Blood is sufficient.
Peace, Golfjack

 

[Rustyxcv]

Please show me where it says that the Holy Spirit was promised to the Catholic church? One of the problems I see with your church is that is based on many assumptions. If there is a place here, I would be happy to debate with you about Catholic doctrine compared to my beliefs. Are you up to the challenge?

     Peace,   Golfjack

Sorry, GolfJack, I can resist almost ANY temptation except the temptation for a silly joke. The Catholic Church has only ONE “assumption” (not many) and that would be THE Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary into heaven, body, soul, and spirit, in the second half of the 1st century. Now, this one you WON’T find in Scripture – LOL – but whose Scripture are you basing all your beliefs on anyway? Isn’t it the Scripture that has been preserved, treasured, and correctly interpreted by the Holy Roman Catholic Church for 2 millennia now?
Blessing to all! – Rusty

 

[CentralFLJames]

tq, I have read most of the link you posted. Of course, I still disagree with most of the Catholic church teachings because they don’t line up with God’s Word. I guess we will both find out who is right some day. I put all of my trust on what Jesus has done for me, His finished work on the cross. Believe me, sins are remitted only by His precious blood. I do not need a priest to say I am forgiven of my sin. The Blood is sufficient.

    Peace,   Golfjack

Ahem GJ, could you elaborate on just a few things?

1. Who calibrates your t-square on what you say lines up with God’s word? Do you use Kentucky windage when you shoot your transits or do you just assume what somone taught you is correct?
2. Who told you that all of Jesus work on the cross was finished there? Didn’t he have to rise from the dead and blow on the apostles to give them their apostolic authority to forgive sins and teach the authentic word of God. If the work was finished should the human work of the bible be ignored?
3. Where do you get your “precious blood” from to get “covered”? Don’t confuse those blood transfusions at the red-cross van parked outside your Protestant Church as precious blood going to you - ahem, didn’t anyone explain to you that it’s going out from you not flowing into you?
4. Why would you put all your trust in what Jesus has done for you when He told us that we must also trust and DO in what he commanded us - in particular following after him and carrying our own crosses?

James

 

[teak421]

tq, I have read most of the link you posted. Of course, I still disagree with most of the Catholic church teachings because they don’t line up with God’s Word. I guess we will both find out who is right some day. I put all of my trust on what Jesus has done for me, His finished work on the cross. Believe me, sins are remitted only by His precious blood. I do not need a priest to say I am forgiven of my sin. The Blood is sufficient.

    Peace,   Golfjack

Morning,

They do not line up with God’s word… Let’s ask this… How can you explain all the different ways of salvation in the Protestant circles? Calvinist, OSAS, etc. Both say they teach directly from God’s word, but come up with completely different doctrines. How do you reconcile that?

• Michael

 

[teak421]

Please show me where it says that the Holy Spirit was promised to the Catholic church? One of the problems I see with your church is that is based on many assumptions. If there is a place here, I would be happy to debate with you about Catholic doctrine compared to my beliefs. Are you up to the challenge?

     Peace,   Golfjack

You asked for a challenge and the next message after your post above, I gave you one… Please review. I would honestly love to get your take on Sola Scriptura.

Here’s my earlier response to your challenge:

Lets start with Sola Scriptura. Can you support the tradition of Sola Scriptura with actual scripture verses and historical evidence? Where in the Bible does it say the Bible is the sole rule of faith and doctrines for all things Christian. Additionally, can you show any early Church Fathers that support the tradition of Sola Scriptura. I would prefer to see historical evidence from around the 4th or 5th century.

This is the key Protestant doctrine and worth discussing as a foundation to all future discussions.

Thanks.

• Michael

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Goldjack,

This almost sounds like a ‘goodbye’ … don’t worry, I’ll manage a dry eye… Of course, with responses like this, there will not be much to miss.

tq, I have read most of the link you posted. Of course, I still disagree with most of the Catholic church teachings because they don’t line up with God’s Word. Based only on your flawed understanding!

I guess we will both find out who is right some day. You still have a chance … but, if you insist… then this is the way it will turn out!

I put all of my trust on what Jesus has done for me, His finished work on the cross. Now, this is interesting because it is different from what St. Paul says in Col 1: 24 about “…making up what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ…”

Believe me, sins are remitted only by His precious blood. I do not need a priest to say I am forgiven of my sin. The Blood is sufficient. Apparently, Christ thought - and acted - other-wise. Look at John 20:23 when the Risen Christ gave the power to forgive sin to the Apostles still cowering in the locked room! Truly, you are blindly spinning in your own orbit when it comes to even reading the actual Words of Christ! Peace, Golfjack

God bless

 

[golfjack]

Hear the truth of God. Forgiveness is not earned; it has to be accepted. You are not forgiven because God loves you. You are not forgiven because you are sorry for sin. You are not forgiven because you are doing good works. You are only forgiven because the blood of Jesus cleanses you from all sin through the atoning sacrifice of the redemptive Lamb of God. All of your righteousness is as filthy rags. You will never be good enough to get into heaven. It is only because of the gooidness of God that he saves you.
Peace, Golfjack

 

[teak421]

Hear the truth of God. Forgiveness is not earned; it has to be accepted. You are not forgiven because God loves you. You are not forgiven because you are sorry for sin. You are not forgiven because you are doing good works. You are only forgiven because the blood of Jesus cleanses you from all sin through the atoning sacrifice of the redemptive Lamb of God. All of your righteousness is as filthy rags. You will never be good enough to get into heaven. It is only because of the gooidness of God that he saves you.

   Peace,   Golfjack

The Catholic Church teaches that Christ on the Cross merited us salvation. No amount of faith, good works, etc. would get us into heaven unless Christ merited it for us at Calvary.

• Michael

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Golfjack,

You’re spinning out of control again…! Focus… identify a subject (it is usually considered helpful to stay with the thread listed above the section where you write your comments. This helps those who read your comments to have at least a hunch where you are coming from.) Of course, you are free to start your own thread - but, if you are going to stay with theis one … then… stay with this one.

Get back in control. Focus on the topic … and then… it is considered polite to respond to all the people who have been patiently wating on you to stop spinning and to answer their objections to your one-item response to everything.

Hear the truth of God. Forgiveness is not earned; it has to be accepted. You are not forgiven because God loves you. You are not forgiven because you are sorry for sin. You are not forgiven because you are doing good works. You are only forgiven because the blood of Jesus cleanses you from all sin through the atoning sacrifice of the redemptive Lamb of God. All of your righteousness is as filthy rags. You will never be good enough to get into heaven. It is only because of the gooidness of God that he saves you. Peace, Golfjack

There was a time when I thought you could do this. Now, I am not very sure. I do not know about anyone else, but, I am starting to fatigue.

Focus. Read what others have written. Respond appropriately. Then, considering the backlog you have collected of unanswered posts, repeat the process until you do the politie action by responding.

Focus. That’s it… now start off slowly… and let’s see what you can do.

God bless

 

[steve_b]

tq, I have read most of the link you posted. Of course, I still disagree with most of the Catholic church teachings because they don’t line up with God’s Word.

God’s Word, 2nd person of the Blessed Trinity, who became man, started the ONE and ONLY Church on Peter. THAT Church is headquartered in Rome with Benedict XVI the 266th successor to St Peter presiding.

And as Paul says

Those who divide from this Church Jesus started, do evil, and don’t serve Our Lord but their own selfish appetites.[Rm 16:17…] He goes on to say that division and factions are a clear sign people are living in SERIOUS sin and if they don’t return to unity with the Church they will NOT inherit the kingdom of heaven. [Gal 5:19…]

As you said earlier you left the Catholic Church 30 years ago. Pay particular attention to Paul’s words to the Church of Rome about those who divide, and the consequences of remaining in that sin in his warnings to the Galatians.

any sin that keeps you from inheriting heaven is a mortal sin. THAT’s why Paul makes this warning over and over again. It’s disasterous to one’s soul and he doesn’t want anyone to be ignorant of this very serious warning…AND consequence
gj:

I put all of my trust on what Jesus has done for me,

Remember what James said about faith? It’s not what you say, it’s what you DO that demonstrates what you believe

if as you say you trust what Jesus has done, you wouldn’t have left the Catholic Church. By leaving the Church He started and made all the promises to, you demonstrate by what you did, that you DON’T trust Him and what He’s done.
gj:

His finished work on the cross.

Finished for

• THOSE who obey what He taught because these are the ones who love him, and we know what happens to THEM
• Those who disobey what He taught because those are the ones who don’t love Him. And we know what happens to THEM

Remember when Jesus said “those who hear you hear Me, and those who don’t hear you don’t hear ME or the one who sent Me”?

That’s why Paul warns, by dividing from the Church of Rome You’re feeding your own appetite. You’re picking and choosing what you want to believe and NOT what the WORD wants and has established for you to believe.
gj:

sins are remitted only by His precious blood.

True.
gj:

I do not need a priest to say I am forgiven of my sin. The Blood is sufficient.

The one who gave HIS blood was crystal clear.

• He NEVER would confuse the issue. And He didn’t. He gave to His apostles the power to retain or forgive sins.
• He NEVER would have given them the power unless it was necessary.

And the Holy Spirit NEVER would have instructed John to write

:
16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal

1 Jn 5:16-17…]

How are you supposed to rid yourself of mortal sin then? By an apostolically ordained priest, because he has been given the power by Jesus to forgive sins. THAT’S scripture, THAT’S Catholic Tradition for 2000 years.

Come back to the faith.

 

[golfjack]

Catholics just love to tell people what to do. tq, Are you the bully around here?

In answer to the sufferings of Christ, my answer is found in 2 Cor. 1:5, For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also abounds through Christ.
Peace, Golfjack

 

[davidv]

Catholics just love to tell people what to do. tq, Are you the bully around here?

In answer to the sufferings of Christ, my answer is found in 2 Cor. 1:5, For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also abounds through Christ.

Peace, Golfjack

How does telling someone what to do equal bullying? Is God a bully? He told Abram to leave Ur and travel to a new land.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Golfjack,

You are spinning out of control … again!

Focus on the subject. I am not bullying you (unless you view trying to keep you on target as ‘bullying’).

Catholics just love to tell people what to do. tq, Are you the bully around here? In answer to the sufferings of Christ, my answer is found in 2 Cor. 1:5, For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also abounds through Christ.

Maybe you view the parable of the Master giving his three servents different talents - and then coming back and demanding an account of how they used those talents (WORK! ) as ‘bullying’. The message can be quite frightening … especially, if you have dug a hole like the 3rd servant, and claimed you have ‘faith’ and that is all it takes! Yes, I guess that could be considered as a ‘bullying’ message that is found in Matthew. But, for those who actually heed God’s Word - it is a wake-up call

Everything I have given you is straight from the Bible - you know … that set of Books you only have a partila copy of…yes, that one. Look up what I told you. Peace, Golfjack

You just had an excellent post, inviting you to come back to the Catholic Church. Actually, it was far better then I have written to you! But, while styles differe, the message is the same. Christ is still knocking on your door. Read your Bible (or go on line to the link I gave you and read the Catholic Bible with the entire Canan - ALL of the books!)

God bless