Outside the Church There is no Salvation?

[waxednwaned]

Banjo:

You ask:
“If the matter is was settled, Ex Cathedra, why would these statements continue?”

Answer: Disobediance; Pure Evil; Protestant agenda; Amercianism; Modernism; Liberalism, all under Satan…

What would make Satan more happy than to make the world believe that you do not need the Faith, the Church, Her Sacraments…

Domini Canis:

Justification is a process- it has steps. The beginning of Justification is the turning away from sin and turning towards Christ. The person begins to accept graces. The “desire for baptism” is part of this process- it is not the end. The “result” of this Justification process is the Sacrament of Baptism (which is none other than Water Baptism).
Trent: “the instrumental cause is the sacrament of baptism, which is the sacrament of faith, without which (faith) no man was ever justified”

Yada:

You said:
“What of those who have not had the opportunity to hear and accept? And it is not for you to judge whether they have heard or not!”

The Holy Bible assures us that those who want to hear, will hear.
Those who seek, shall find.
I quote from the Holy Bible for your answer:

John 16:13 “But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth. For he shall not speak of himself; but what things soever he shall hear, he shall speak; and the things that are to come, he shall shew you.”

John 10:16 “And other sheep I have, that are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd.”

Jeremias 33:3 “Cry to me and I will hear thee: and I will shew thee great things, and sure things which thou knowest not.”

John 8:43 “Why do you not know my speech? Because you cannot hear my word.”

Lastly, this sums up the whole of the matter:
Romans 10:11-18
“For the scripture saith: Whosoever believeth in him, shall not be confounded. For there is no distinction of the Jew and the Greek: for the same is Lord over all, rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord, shall be saved. How then shall they call on him, in whom they have not believed? Or how shall they believe him, of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear, without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they be sent, as it is written: How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, of them that bring glad tidings of good things!
But all do not obey the gospel. For Isaias saith: Lord, who hath believed our report? Faith then cometh by hearing; and hearing by the word of Christ. But I say: Have they not heard? Yes, verily, their sound hath gone forth into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the whole world.”

You have stated, in erro,r that the Catholic Church does not hold the doctrine that those outside the Church cannot obtain slavation- you have seen the doctrine many times, (Edit)

The Faith, the Sacraments, the Church, the Pope, Priests… are all necessary- otherwise there would not be a “need” for any of them- we can just shut down and lock the Church doors. Christ did nothing that was unecessary. He started the Church for a reason.- it is necessary.

 

[Domini_Canis]

Waxednwaned,

The Council defined justification as “the sanctification and renewal of the inward man, through the voluntary reception of the grace, and of the gifts, whereby man of unjust becomes just, and of an enemy a friend, that so he may be an heir according to hope of life everlasting.” (session 6, chapter vii).

The steps that you mention might precede justification, but they’re not justification itself. Since a man can “turn away from his sins and turn to Christ”, while at the same time not be sanctified.

DC.

 

[pnewton]

waxednwaned:

You have stated, in erro,r that the Catholic Church does not hold the doctrine that those outside the Church cannot obtain slavation- you have seen the doctrine many times, why do you lie?

Are you in some league with Satan, or what?
.

:tsktsk: By your fruits you shall know them.

 

[hgracet]

Lets put it another way.
Those who do not know God and have not heard of Him are not condemned to hell. How is that Just?
Pope John Paul II was a great example of bringing all together, all religions and faiths. They worship the same God we do. The Muslims worship the same God, the Protestants worship the same God, the Jews worship the same God.
Are we to say that because the Native Americans were alienated from the rest of civilization and did not know of the Catholic Church that they were all necessarily condemned to Hell. NO. That is not true, and anyone that says otherwise is rigorist. It is a pharisaical.
Too many people miss Christ’s teaching of the spirit of the Law. The letter of the law is very important but so is the spirit of the law.
The Catholic Church does not say that you must know of the Catholic Church or have converted to it in your lifetime to enter into heaven.
God measures that.

 

[banjo]

Banjo:

You ask:
“If the matter is was settled, Ex Cathedra, why would these statements continue?”

Answer: Disobediance; Pure Evil; Protestant agenda; Amercianism; Modernism; Liberalism, all under Satan…

What would make Satan more happy than to make the world believe that you do not need the Faith, the Church, Her Sacraments…

Considering that some of my quotes were taken from papal statements, these are obviously very serious allegations. Do you have a particular pope, council, century, etc.in mind that you could point to and say,’ this was when the Church hierarchy fell into this condition or this is when the process leading up to this condition began’?

 

[pnewton]

banjo:

Do you have a particular pope, council, century, etc.in mind that you could point to and say,’ this was when the Church hierarchy fell into this condition…

I hope he doesn’t lest he find himself, like Fr. Feeney, “extra ecclesia.”

 

[Michael_Francis]

Having wandered from it’s topic this thread is now closed.