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VociMike
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There is only one Church, outside of which there is no salvation. You belong to it (presumably). It is the Catholic Church.
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frnate
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Yeah, it really does boil down to authority. The Protestants may have a logical conflict regarding the canon, but all Catholics know the canon was decided over a thousand years before Trent. I will speak from a personal standpoint, I have no issue with Rome’s authority to define matters of faith and morals for those who unite themselves to her. If she did not she would derelict in her duty. It is her illegitimate claim to absolute and supreme authority to do so for every person who claims the name of Christ that the rest of the Church disagrees with.
I have said it here before and I’ll say it again:
Of the five ancient patriarchates, who by the way worked ONLY collegially when it came to defining the the most important doctrines of our faith, only one has ever believed or taught the primacy of the Pope.
The Popes have been trying to assert this non-existent authority since the third century. If the filioque was just the straw that broke the camel’s back when it comes to the Great Schism, it is the issue of Papal supremacy which was the giant pile of logs upon which that straw was laid.I’ll stop now.
Peace,
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Pixie_Dust
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Are you familiar with the Bible Christian Society? Free MP3 downloads, or you can order CDs, just $1 for shipping. John Martignoni has an excellent lecture on Apostolic Authority and the Pope that might interest you.Yeah, it really does boil down to authority. The Protestants may have a logical conflict regarding the canon, but all Catholics know the canon was decided over a thousand years before Trent. I will speak from a personal standpoint, I have no issue with Rome’s authority to define matters of faith and morals for those who unite themselves to her. If she did not she would derelict in her duty. It is her illegitimate claim to absolute and supreme authority to do so for every person who claims the name of Christ that the rest of the Church disagrees with.
I have said it here before and I’ll say it again:
Of the five ancient patriarchates, who by the way worked ONLY collegially when it came to defining the the most important doctrines of our faith, only one has ever believed or taught the primacy of the Pope.
I’ll stop now.
Peace,
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VociMike
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His Church is the Catholic Church, and the Bishop of Rome is His vicar. There is no other Church on earth.
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myfavoritmartin
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So your putting limits on Our Creator now?
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Pixie_Dust
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How many churches did Jesus found?
I Corinthians 12:28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.
I Timothy 3:15 but in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bullwark of the truth
Matthew 16:18 And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church,
Ephesians 1:22-23 And he (God the Father) put all things beneath his (Jesus) feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of the one who fills all things in every way.
Colossians 1:18 & 24 He is the head of the body, the church. 24 He is the head of the body, the church.
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VociMike
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No, I’m believing his words. Christ told us he founded exactly one Church.
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myfavoritmartin
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No I mean that restricting HIM in that HIS ONLY church is Rome.
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VociMike
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His Church isn’t (only) in Rome, but his appointed vicar sits there. Surely the concept of one body, one head (vicar) is not foreign to you.
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myfavoritmartin
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More like this mike, one body (believers) one head CHRIST!
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GandalfTheWhite
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No, we’re only telling you the way things are because God the Son made them this way.
Now think about your logic. Do you not restict God when you say that God is not the creator of only One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church?
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GandalfTheWhite
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Yep, our Lord Jesus Christ is indeed the head of the Church. That’s why one of the Pope’s titles is Vicar of Christ.
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VociMike
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And where is his earthly vicar?
If you object to how Christ chose to set up his Church, we can’t help you.
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myfavoritmartin
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Christ is the living God, and HIS sprit dwells in all born again believers the HS is HIS earthly vicar, any other attempt to be in the position of Christ on earth can easily be considered blasphemous.
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Genesis315
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No it can’t. Christ is the Supreme Shepherd, yet He makes St. Peter the shepherd of His sheep. Christ is the King, and yet He gives the keys to the kingdom to St. Peter. Christ is the Rock and yet He rename St. Peter “Rock” and prays that His faith never fail so that he can strengthen the brethren. Notcing a pattern? When the Christ ascends, it is St. Peter who becomes the leader of the Church, filled with the Holy Spirit, rising up and speaking for the rest.
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VociMike
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Boy, talk about blasphemy! You just did what you accuse us of doing. The Holy Spirit is Christ’s vicar? Look up the word “vicar”. You have just demoted the Holy Spirit to a level below Christ. You have denied his divinity, and denied the Trinity.
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GandalfTheWhite
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Fine, but you need to do much more that just this. Perhaps you have some biblical quotes that somehow support your position…
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myfavoritmartin
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Mike you know what was meant by my comment don’t make it more than that. I as you might expect don’t use vicar often.
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VociMike
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I understand it was a mistake of language. The Holy Spirit is not the servant of Christ. He is not the vicar of Christ.
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