Overcoming Transgender Issues

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That’s the current theory, but it seems nonsensical to me. Why would the mind have some differentiation called “gender” seperate from sex? Where does this “gender” come from? How can you categorize it is as male/female when it’s not necessarily connected to physical sex?
It’s very hard to recognize unless you have a dissonance in your own mind. Gender is a social role, think of it this way. Sex: Male/Female. Gender: Masculine/Feminine

Male/Female and Masculine/Feminine are related, but not the same

As for physical I disassociate my physical masculine sex. I can’t even tell it’s there. It’s sort of the opposite of phantom limb syndrome. I can’t feel it, I can’t tell its there, if it gets damaged I don’t even recognize it. My mind has severed it that completely from my sensations.

It may or may not be related to BDD, body dismorphic disorder, that’s the folks that feel they shouldn’t have a leg, or an arm etc. However, the big difference is if you give in to that mind/body mismatch as a cure, you make them disabled.

A man becoming a woman is not somehow suddenly ‘disabled’ and more of a burden on society.
 
It’s very hard to recognize unless you have a dissonance in your own mind. Gender is a social role, think of it this way. Sex: Male/Female. Gender: Masculine/Feminine
Well, if it’s a social identity, then it’s disconnected from anything instrinsic in body, mind, or soul, but only arbitrary expectations encrusted in the psyche. Like the notion that pink is a girl’s color, or only men should wear bifurcated garments.
As for physical I disassociate my physical masculine sex. I can’t even tell it’s there. It’s sort of the opposite of phantom limb syndrome. I can’t feel it, I can’t tell its there, if it gets damaged I don’t even recognize it. My mind has severed it that completely from my sensations. It may or may not be related to BDD, body dismorphic disorder, that’s the folks that feel they shouldn’t have a leg, or an arm etc.
I don’t mean to sound offensive or disrespectful, but that honestly sounds like a mental pathology to me, to have body parts you psychosomatically can’t sense.
However, the big difference is if you give in to that mind/body mismatch as a cure, you make them disabled. A man becoming a woman is not somehow suddenly ‘disabled’ and more of a burden on society.
No medical intervention can actually turn a male into a female; it can only change the appearance. It is like cosmetic surgery to make a person appear younger–but they don’t actually become younger. One could also argue that “sex change” operations do disable a person; usually they can’t reproduce anymore–evolutionarily you can’t get more disabled than that.

I do think a person has the legal right to cut off whatever body part they want. It’s none of my business, and I won’t intervene. But I also will not encourage that or argue that it is a positive action.
 
Why would anyone want to change the way God made them? He does everything for a perfect reason, I thought…
 
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As for physical I disassociate my physical masculine sex. I can’t even tell it’s there. It’s sort of the opposite of phantom limb syndrome. I can’t feel it, I can’t tell its there, if it gets damaged I don’t even recognize it. My mind has severed it that completely from my sensations.
You may not be able to sense being male because male is the default of our culture - it is the standard from which all else is measured. If you don’t deviate from the standard, you aren’t going to notice it. But you can bet that women have a very different experience.
A man becoming a woman is not somehow suddenly ‘disabled’ and more of a burden on society.
I agree.
Why would anyone want to change the way God made them? He does everything for a perfect reason, I thought…
Indeed. But Nature has made some children with birth defects, and it is our responsibility to fix those defects. Surely God wants us to care for our brothers and sisters.
 
Why would anyone want to change the way God made them? He does everything for a perfect reason, I thought…
What about hermaphrodites? What about albinos? etc What about siamese twins? Need I say more.
 
I don’t mean to sound offensive or disrespectful, but that honestly sounds like a mental pathology to me, to have body parts you psychosomatically can’t sense.
I have been in therapy over my life for about fifteen years total. Both to cure my problem, and to accept it. Nothing made it go away, absolutely nothing. It is incurable. I have been on every single SSRI/antipsychotic that I can think of, nothing works, nothing stops it, nothing makes it any better. There might be a cure for some, but for me, there is nothing.
One could also argue that “sex change” operations do disable a person; usually they can’t reproduce anymore–evolutionarily you can’t get more disabled than that.
I was born sterile. There is nothing to damage. My genes are horrible, it is good that I am sterile and it’s why I am sterile. If it was actually possible for me to produce sperm or eggs, likely the child would die in the womb from gross genetic defects. Me not having children is good evolutionarily.
 
I have been in therapy over my life for about fifteen years total. Both to cure my problem, and to accept it. Nothing made it go away, absolutely nothing. It is incurable. I have been on every single SSRI/antipsychotic that I can think of, nothing works, nothing stops it, nothing makes it any better. There might be a cure for some, but for me, there is nothing.

I was born sterile. There is nothing to damage. My genes are horrible, it is good that I am sterile and it’s why I am sterile. If it was actually possible for me to produce sperm or eggs, likely the child would die in the womb from gross genetic defects. Me not having children is good evolutionarily.
I certainly don’t presume to be qualified to diagnose your troubles, either on or off the internet. Personally, I don’t see how living like a “woman” (whatever that means) makes a difference; can’t you just be you? If it’s not too forward of me, are you intersexual? I think the presence of a Y-chromosome is a good rule of thumb for determing maleness, but it’s not always obvious physically. Well, it’s none of my business anyway. It’s your life.
 
I certainly don’t presume to be qualified to diagnose your troubles, either on or off the internet. Personally, I don’t see how living like a “woman” (whatever that means) makes a difference; can’t you just be you? If it’s not too forward of me, are you intersexual?
It feels right, I feel more comfortable, I am no longer suicidal. I finished two degrees, where as as a male I was failing all classes, highschool, life in general. I was homeless for a spell too, completely directionless. This completely changed once I shifted my living state. Being the way I am now IS being me. I’m not exactly a girly girl or anything, I don’t even own a single dress or skirt. I just wear jeans and tshirts for work (Got to love the west coast!). I was always androgynous, really all I had to do to transition from male to female was grow my hair out. Hormones weren’t really necessary.

And yes, I am intersexed. I am a XX/XY/XXY mosaic.
 
And to think some think that is awefull. To think it is some kind of virtue that you live as a male. Thats why I’m distancing my self from some.
 
Why would the mind have some differentiation called “gender” seperate from sex? Where does this “gender” come from? How can you categorize it is as male/female when it’s not necessarily connected to physical sex?
Good questions!
Here’s Milton Diamond on the subject:
A theory of gender development is presented that incorporates early biological factors that organize predispositions in temperament and attitudes. With activation of these factors a person interacts in society and comes to identify as male or female. The predispositions establish preferences and aversions the growing child compares with those of others. All individuals compare themselves with others deciding who they are like (same) and with whom are they different. These experiences and interpretations can then be said to determine how one comes to identify as male or female, man or woman. In retrospect, one can say the person has a gendered brain since it is the brain that structures the individual’s basic personality; first with inherent tendencies then with interactions coming from experience.

Starting very early in life the developing child, consciously or not, begins to compare himself or herself with others; peers and adults seen, met, or heard of. All children have this in common (R. Goldman & J. Goldman, 1982). In so doing they analyze inner feelings and behavior preferences in comparison with those of their peers and adults. In this analysis they crucially consider “Who am I like and who am I unlike?” Role models are of particularly strong influence but there is no way to predict if a model will be chosen, who will be chosen, nor on what basis chosen. In this comparison there is no internal template of male or female into which the child attempts to fit. Instead they see if they are same or different in comparisons with peers, important persons, groups or categories of others (Diamond, 2002b). It is the “goodness of fit” that is crucial. The typical boy, even if he is effeminate, sees himself as fitting the category “boy” and “male” and eventually growing to be a man with all the accoutrements of masculinity that go with it. Similarly the typical girl, even if quite masculine, grows to aspire being a woman and probably being a mother. The comparisons allow for great flexibility in cultural variation in regard to gendered behaviors. It is the adaptive value of this inherent nature of brain development that trumps a concept of a male–female brain template to organize gender development. The average male fits in without difficulty, the atypical one who will exhibit signs of gender identity dysphoria, for instance, does not see himself as same or similar to others of his gender. He sees himself as different in likes and dislikes, preferences and attitudes but basically in terms of identity. There will be a period of confusion during which the child thinks something like Mommy and Daddy call me boy, and yet I am not at all like any of the others that I know who are called “boy.” While the only other category the child knows is girl, he develops the thought that he might be or should be one of those. Initially that thought is too great a concept leap to be easily accepted and the child struggles in an attempt to reconcile these awkward feelings. The boy might actually imagine he is, if not really a boy than possibly an it, an alien of some sort or a freak of nature. Eventually he might come to believe, since he knows of no other options, that he is a girl or should be one. And with a child’s way of believing in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy he can come to expect he will grow up to be a woman. With experience and the realization that this won’t happen of its own accord the maturing child may begin to seek ways to effect the desired change. A female can experience an opposite scenario.
That’s from **Biased-Interaction Theory of Psychosexual Development: “How Does One Know if One is Male or Female?” **
 
Now compare Diamond’s theory to this account by an Intersexed girl (biologically speaking) who was originally diagnosed as an Intersexed boy (biologically speaking) but who developed a female gender despite that.

Up until age 5, I was a child. No real concept of gender.

At 6, I went to school, and noticed something was wrong. I was dressed as a boy, I looked like a boy, but I didn’t think like “other boys”. I still liked toy guns, and Meccano rather than dolls, but I was different.

At 7, I knew I wasn’t a boy, but didn’t know what I was. I thought boys were puerile, and girls too silly and sissy. A classic Tomboy in retrospect.

At 8, I got to play hopscotch with other girls, and I felt at home. They thought like I did, they cried like I did. I still didn’t see myself as more than an honourary girl though. Even if my favourite toy car was Lady Penelope’s pink Rolls-Royce.

At 9, more by a process of elimination than anything else, I realised I was female. Boys could just as well have been an alien species. Girls were just like me, in feelings and values.

At 10, I was in a boys boarding school then, and I was able to make up boardgames of astounding complexity when it rained. I had my own secret garden in the nearby woods, with flowerbeds I’d planted. I could sit and read amidst the flowers, and was terribly happy. It was then I picked the name Zoe, and planned what I was going to do with my life. I wanted children, a husband, the white picket fence etc, but also to be a Rocket Scientist and to travel the world, things that Wives and Mothers Just Did Not Do in the 60’s.

Even though it had been obvious since age 7 that I’d never be “svelte” or “petite”, that I’d be the girl “with the wonderful personality”. I didn’t cry about that – much. And not where anyone could see me. I was more worried about the practical problems I’d be having when I started having a female puberty. And vaguely concerned that boys didn’t interest me at all. I was no naive I thought that was part of the package of being a girl. Was I a defective one?

It came as a terrible shock when I learnt that boys and girls are born looking different, and that my body was boy.

I didn’t take it well.

Basically, I failed my SAN roll, and convinced myself I had to be a boy, no matter how I felt inside. That meant forgetting a lot, suppressing memories, but it was either acquire a minor psychosis, or sink into despair, depression, and death.

A part of me still knew, but that part was in a box in a safe in the hold of a sunken ship at the bottom of the ocean on a planet circling a distant star.

I tried to be the best Man any woman could be. I did that for 47 years. It helped to be Asexual, mildly lesbian if anything. Sex was for having children, a form of cuddling and pleasing someone you loved, albeit a bit tiring after the first hour. Not something instinctive or natural.

Yes, that person was me. And I wrote that account before reading Milton Diamond’s theory. It may not be universally applicable, but it appears to apply to me.
 
Well, if it’s a social identity, then it’s disconnected from anything instrinsic in body, mind, or soul, but only arbitrary expectations encrusted in the psyche. Like the notion that pink is a girl’s color, or only men should wear bifurcated garments.
There’s nothing “instinctive” about most of what we regard as “gendered behaviour”. There’s no particular reason why girls should prefer pink and boys blue, other than cultural tradition. Or that girls wear skirts and boys trousers. It’s a social construct.

Mostly. But there are some real, biologically determined typical behaviour patterns that are sexually dimorphic, boys tend to conform to one pattern, girls another. This can be unsubtle, such as the obvious differences in language ability and concentration on facial expressions that are observable from the age of a few months old, to more subtle but more pervasive effects on emotional response and even body image.

As an experiment,observe what happens when a newborn child is carried into a room containing a mixed group of men and women. If you observe closely, you’ll see the girls and young women in their late teens and early twenties immediately cluster around the child. Observe even more closely, and if the baby cries, you’ll see many of the women show signs of lactation. This is hard-wired, instinctive, nothing to do with culture or social mores. And those instincts are laid down in the first trimester of gestation, and later manifest in the physical structure of the lymbic nucleus.

As with all Intersex conditions, sometimes things go wrong, and the person concerned ends up with female, rather than feminine, instincts and emotions, but a male or mostly male body. They then develop a female gender identity as the result of unconscious observation of their own thoughts and feelings in comparison with others, but the cause of that is already pre-destined.

Such a woman, even if she doesn’t “feel” or act in a particularly female way, will have to constantly fight her instincts in order to conform to the male role she feels she has to play - or risk social sanction or even violence. Such a woman, if she transitions, can relax - even though she may not conform to traditional female norms…
Most transsexual women - about 4 in 5 - cross-dress to gain some psychological relief from their condition.

I never did. It would be like an alcoholic taking a first drink. I couldn’t even wear a pastel shirt.

I had a (mostly) male body, and so I tried to be the best man any woman could be. That meant never relaxing my vigilance, not for a second in 47 years.

A real man could wear a dress, or makeup, for Halloween or as a joke. I couldn’t. Not for a second, because if I did, I would have to transition, and my life would be in ruins. I couldn’t rush over to see a new baby, as other women could, and as my every instinct said I should be doing. Even walking, I had to use a male swagger, and be careful not to swing my hips as my instincts dictated I do.

I still have problems with back-fastening bras. And I have little clothes sense. But I do have girlfriends who advise me, and now if one tells me she’s going to marry her boyfriend and have a family, I can squeal with heartfelt joy. Yes, I know, undignified in a middle-aged woman, but I’m still going through puberty. 50 going on 16.
Just to complicate matters even further, if the instincts are affected, very often the body-image is too. Such women may have male peripherals, but they have female device-drivers. Having a male or mostly male body feels terribly wrong, perverse even. Even if they are asexual, even if they are lesbian (so could rationally be expected to see male genitalia and body as an advantage, as it allows a greater choice of partners), their brains just aren’t set up for it.

Surgery to approximately match body and brain cannot reasonably be called “cosmetic”. It gives greater functionality in all respects except one, and that one is very important: fertility.

There are degrees of discomfort though, and someone whose mind is rotting under the constant stress, who will likely suicide before age 20 and will certainly never be able to have any form of relationship in a cross-gendered role will never have children anyway. Those with a lesser degree, or stronger wills, and with a hypertrophied maternal instinct will sometimes overcome all barriers, even if intersex conditions mean they require surgical extraction of gametes, in order to have children. Even if it requires “doing the boy act”, pretending to be male, regardless of the stress.

Should such a woman suddenly become sterile though, as the result of her intersex condition, she will transition, immediately, no delay, no equivocation. Sometimes in months, and in the most extreme cases, weeks.
 
I never really did the boy act very well. Therefore I never made any friends in my neighborhood. I was just thought of as just wierd. I wasn’t good at putting on the boy act. It got to be viewed as so bad by some of my special ed teacher. That I didn’t make friends well with other boys. See the telltail signs were there. But going back a little to my football analogy, that stupid mind set of one way to do things and make that one way work. They thought somehow they could force me to make other ( boy) friends, and it didn’t work. The school I went to boys out numbered girls by about 15 to one, so there were’t many opportunities to see if I’d gravitate twards girls in those days. These days after Iv’e been out and about as a female, it’s a downer to go back to the male role. Yes I’d like to hear from you Zoe Brain on transitioning Iv’e pmed you twice now. You are invited to pm me.
 
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