Overpopulation fears are a hoax

[JimG]

Excerpt from a short article by Walter Williams on ‘overpopulation.’

(Let’s put you, the reader, to a test. See whether you can tell which country is richer and which is poorer just by knowing two countries’ population density.

North Korea’s population density is 518 people per square mile, whereas South Korea’s is more than double that, at 1,261 people per square mile.

Hong Kong’s population density is 16,444, whereas Somalia’s is 36.

Congo has 75 people per square mile, whereas Singapore has 18,513.

Looking at the gross domestic products of these countries, one would have to be a lunatic to believe that smaller population density leads to greater riches.

stream.org/overpopulation-fears-hoax-heres-higher-populations-actually-good-thing/

 

[Rhubarb]

It’s true. More population leads to more dollars.

So when the population is past critical, how many dollar bills does a person have to eat to not starve?

 

[jeannetherese]

It’s true. More population leads to more dollars.

Hi Rhubarb,
Have you a source to share for this argument?
Thanks so much, and may God bless you.
jt

 

[Rhubarb]

Hi Rhubarb,
Have you a source to share for this argument?
Thanks so much, and may God bless you.
jt

Er, it wasn’t an argument. I was snarkily pointing out that the article talks about population density correlating to higher GDPs, which misses the point. We can all bit sitting on huge piles of currency, but we can’t eat currency to survive.

 

[Kaninchen]

Well, it’s one explanation of the low GDP and abysmal agricultural production figures for Antarctica.

 

[TK421]

@jim

It is correct that overpopulation is an easy political tool used to justify anti family and misanthropic platforms, but low or high population density doesn’t really guarantee wealth or poverty. Russia and Canada will have low population density because they are big.

There will of course be a tendency towards wealth because there is more net intelligence for doing anything and everything, but not a guarantee if the mechanisms aren’t in place for people to grow and develop themselves, like in India (although that is getting better) If those mechanisms of justice towards the individual and family are in place, then ourselves and each other are of course our own benefactors.

 

[Crusaderbear]

It’s true. More population leads to more dollars.

So when the population is past critical, how many dollar bills does a person have to eat to not starve?

There is the problem, resource use, not numbers of people.

National Geographic news article explaining the relationship between population and resource use:

news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/09/140920-population-11billion-demographics-anthropocene/

As the article points out, we’ll know the effects in about 100 years.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Well, it’s one explanation of the low GDP and abysmal agricultural production figures for Antarctica.

The average education of people living in Antarctica is very high. Many many of those living in Antarctica have PhD’s.

People bring in their food and take home their waste and bring in their own energy.

Maybe the key to economic success is education … perhaps particularly high in math skills.

 

[adamhovey1988]

you know I don’t understand my mother make sure she always tells people that she has nine kids she does not ever mention that she lost three of them unless pressed to do so. I see these people get shocked and I don’t get it I don’t think I come from that big of a family people tend to forget if you stop having kids guess what? you stop doing things like making money you stop things like running an economy, you have no funding for retirement and a mélange of other things. I think it important to point out that countries such as Italy France and Spain have been giving away land fairly cheap because of a lack of population. Japan has been encouraging people to have children. I think people tend to forget that most of the world’s land as far as I can tell, isn’t city. I live in a rural area, the closest town is (to the town hall) 6.72 km away, it has less than 200 people and some very nice empty houses.

 

[frobert]

There is the problem, resource use, not numbers of people.

National Geographic news article explaining the relationship between population and resource use:
news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/09/140920-population-11billion-demographics-anthropocene/

As the article points out, we’ll know the effects in about 100 years.

Excellent article but there is no need to wait 100 years for the effects, they are here already.

Overpopulation Effects - Everything Connects

Quote
Human overpopulation is among the most pressing environmental issues, silently aggravating the forces behind global warming, environmental pollution, habitat loss, the sixth mass extinction, intensive farming practices and the consumption of finite natural resources, such as fresh water, arable land and fossil fuels, at speeds faster than their rate of regeneration. However, ecological issues are just the beginning.

• Loss of Fresh Water
• Species Extinction
• Lower Life Expectancy in the Fastest Growing Countries
• Depletion of Natural Resources
• Increased Emergence of New Epidemics and Pandemics
• Increased Habitat Loss
• More Intensive Farming Practices
• Increased Global Warming and Climate Change
• Elevated Crime Rate

 

[Kaninchen]

Maybe the key to economic success is education … perhaps particularly high in math skills.

There may be a number of keys, owning the keys can be helpful, for example.

 

[frobert]

you know I don’t understand my mother make sure she always tells people that she has nine kids she does not ever mention that she lost three of them unless pressed to do so. I see these people get shocked and I don’t get it I don’t think I come from that big of a family people tend to forget if you stop having kids guess what? you stop doing things like making money you stop things like running an economy, you have no funding for retirement and a mélange of other things. I think it important to point out that countries such as Italy France and Spain have been giving away land fairly cheap because of a lack of population. Japan has been encouraging people to have children. I think people tend to forget that most of the world’s land as far as I can tell, isn’t city. I live in a rural area, the closest town is (to the town hall) 6.72 km away, it has less than 200 people and some very nice empty houses.

I am happy for you that you have experienced a good life. Can your experiences translate to 7.4 billion people?

Each country has different needs. Countries that have an aging population and a low birth rate need more young people to fund the social costs associated with the aged. Some countries have a lot of land but overall the green revolution has gone into reverse.

The world has lost a third of its farmable land in the last 40 years

Almost one-third of the world’s farmable land has disappeared in the last four decades, with intensive agricultural practices severely impacting the ongoing viability of crop lands, a new study has found.

And the problem will only get worse if we don’t act now, say experts, with current farming methods leading to what could be a disaster for food production in the near future.

Farming: Soil erosion and degradation

Erosion commonly occurs following conversion of natural vegetation to agricultural land – carrying away fertile soil as well as fertilizers, pesticides and other agrochemicals.

• Soil degraded and lost
  When natural vegetation is cleared and when farmland is ploughed, the exposed topsoil is often blown away by wind or washed away by rain
• Waterways clogged & polluted
  Soil carried off in rain or irrigation water can lead to sedimentation of rivers, lakes and coastal areas.
• Arable land destroyed
  Land degradation stretches to about 30 % of the total global land area.
  The problem persists, with a reported loss rate of about 10 million hectares per year.
• Flooding increased
  Erosion caused by deforestation can also lead to increased flooding. In banana plantations, for example, flooding occurs partly because of deforestation (soil is no longer there to absorb the water) and partly because of poorly constructed plantation drainage systems.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

I am happy for you that you have experienced a good life. Can your experiences translate to 7.4 billion people?

Each country has different needs. Countries that have an aging population and a low birth rate need more young people to fund the social costs associated with the aged. Some countries have a lot of land but overall the green revolution has gone into reverse.

The world has lost a third of its farmable land in the last 40 years

Almost one-third of the world’s farmable land has disappeared in the last four decades, with intensive agricultural practices severely impacting the ongoing viability of crop lands, a new study has found.

And the problem will only get worse if we don’t act now, say experts, with current farming methods leading to what could be a disaster for food production in the near future.

Farming: Soil erosion and degradation

Erosion commonly occurs following conversion of natural vegetation to agricultural land – carrying away fertile soil as well as fertilizers, pesticides and other agrochemicals.

• Soil degraded and lost
  When natural vegetation is cleared and when farmland is ploughed, the exposed topsoil is often blown away by wind or washed away by rain
• Waterways clogged & polluted
  Soil carried off in rain or irrigation water can lead to sedimentation of rivers, lakes and coastal areas.
• Arable land destroyed
  Land degradation stretches to about 30 % of the total global land area.
  The problem persists, with a reported loss rate of about 10 million hectares per year.
• Flooding increased
  Erosion caused by deforestation can also lead to increased flooding. In banana plantations, for example, flooding occurs partly because of deforestation (soil is no longer there to absorb the water) and partly because of poorly constructed plantation drainage systems.

Previously posted (by Jim G) above: Hong Kong and Singapore have NO physical assets … NO LAND AREA … NO OIL … NO GOLD … NO CATTLE RANCHES … no assets except for the economic system that allows the people to keep what they earn.

 

[Wesrock]

Excerpt from a short article by Walter Williams on ‘overpopulation.’

stream.org/overpopulation-fears-hoax-heres-higher-populations-actually-good-thing/

This… I don’t even know how to respond to this faulty logic. Population density often indicates higher wealth, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a critical point.

Maybe overpopulation is an unnecessary fear, but the logic of the argument being made should be obviously faulty to a fifth grader.

 

[Wesrock]

And just because we disagree with methods being proposed to manage risk of overpopulation doesn’t mean we need to resort to considering overpopulation to be a myth.

Contraception = bad =/= risk of overpopulation is false. And that seems to be the extent of thinking on the topic. Maybe it’s not. But simply pointing at population density and GDP in such a simple way certainly makes it seem that way.

:banghead:

 

[rabbitdonkey]

overpopulationisamyth.com/

God Bless

 

[frobert]

Previously posted (by Jim G) above: Hong Kong and Singapore have NO physical assets … NO LAND AREA … NO OIL … NO GOLD … NO CATTLE RANCHES … no assets except for the economic system that allows the people to keep what they earn.

So? There are 196 countries in the world, how do you translate the experience of a relatively small number of countries to the 196 countries?

The facts are not on your side.

11 Facts About Global Poverty

1. 
   *]Nearly 1/2 of the world’s population — more than 3 billion people — live on less than $2.50 a day. More than 1.3 billion live in extreme poverty — less than $1.25 a day.
   *]1 billion children worldwide are living in poverty. According to UNICEF, 22,000 children die each day due to poverty.
   *]805 million people worldwide do not have enough food to eat. Food banks are especially important in providing food for people that can’t afford it themselves. Run a food drive outside your local grocery store so people in your community have enough to eat. Sign up for Supermarket Stakeout.
   *]More than 750 million people lack adequate access to clean drinking water. Diarrhea caused by inadequate drinking water, sanitation, and hand hygiene kills an estimated 842,000 people every year globally, or approximately 2,300 people per day.
   *]In 2011, 165 million children under the age 5 were stunted (reduced rate of growth and development) due to chronic malnutrition.
   *]Preventable diseases like diarrhea and pneumonia take the lives of 2 million children a year who are too poor to afford proper treatment.
   *]As of 2013, 21.8 million children under 1 year of age worldwide had not received the three recommended doses of vaccine against diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis.
   *]1/4 of all humans live without electricity — approximately 1.6 billion people.
   *]80% of the world population lives on less than $10 a day.
   *]Oxfam estimates that it would take $60 billion annually to end extreme global poverty–that’s less than 1/4 the income of the top 100 richest billionaires.
   *]The World Food Programme says, “The poor are hungry and their hunger traps them in poverty.” Hunger is the number one cause of death in the world, killing more than HIV/AIDS, malaria, and tuberculosis combined.
   
   Sources
   

   1. United Nations Development Programme. "Sustaining Human Progress: Reducing Vulnerabilities and Building Resilience." Human Development Report, 2014. Web Accessed February 25, 2015.
   2. United Nations Inter-agency Group for Child Mortality Estimation (UN IGME). "UNICEF: Committing to Child Survival: A promise renewed." UNICEF, 2014. Web Accessed February 25, 2015.
   3. FAO, IFAD and WFP. "The State of Food Insecurity in the World 2014. Strengthening the enabling environment for food security and nutrition." Food and Agriculture Organization of the UN, 2014. Web Accessed February 25, 2015.
   4. World Health Organization and UNICEF Joint Monitoring Programme (JMP). "Progress on Drinking Water and Sanitation, 2014 Update." 2014. Web Accessed February 25, 2015.
   5. United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF). "IMPROVING CHILD NUTRITION: The achievable imperative for global progress." United Nations Children’s Fund. 2013. Web Accessed February 25, 2015.
   6. United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF) . "Pneumonia and diarrhoea Tackling the deadliest diseases for the world’s poorest children." Web accessed February 25, 2014,
   7. UNICEF and WHO. "Immunization Summary: A statistical reference containing data through 2013." 10 November 2014. Web Accessed 25 February 2015.
   8. United Nations. "The Millennium Development Goals Report 2007." United Nations, 2007. Web Accessed April 29, 2014.
   9. Ravallion, Martin, Shaohua Chen, and Prem Sangraula. Dollar a Day Revisited. Working paper no. 4620. The World Bank, May 2008. Web Accessed February 25, 2014.
   10. Oxfam. "The cost of inequality: how wealth and income extremes hurt us all." Oxfam, 2013. Web Accessed May 6, 2014.
   11. World Food Programme. "What causes hunger?" Food Programme Fighting Hunger Worldwide, 2010. Web Accessed February 22, 2014.
   12. UNAIDS. "Report on the Global AIDS Epidemic." UNAIDS, 2010. Web Accessed May 1, 2015.

 

[frobert]

overpopulationisamyth.com/

God Bless

The website you linked to does not take the exponential exponent into consideration:https://d32ogoqmya1dw8.cloudfront.net/images/quantskills/methods/quantlit/exponsmall_150.gif

World population FAQS

At the dawn of agriculture, about 8000 B.C., the population of the world was approximately 5 million. Over the 8,000-year period up to 1 A.D. it grew to 200 million (some estimate 300 million or even 600, suggesting how imprecise population estimates of early historical periods can be), with a growth rate of under 0.05% per year.

A tremendous change occurred with the industrial revolution: whereas it had taken all of human history until around 1800 for world population to reach one billion, the second billion was achieved in only 130 years (1930), the third billion in less than 30 years (1959), the fourth billion in 15 years (1974), and the fifth billion in only 13 years (1987).

During the 20th century alone, the population in the world has grown from 1.65 billion to 6 billion.
In 1970, there were roughly half as many people in the world as there are now.
Because of declining growth rates, it will now take over 200 years to double again.

Wonder how big was the world’s population when you were born?
Check out this simple wizard or this more elaborated one to find out.

 

[Brassring]

The overpopulation fear is an extension of what is known in the economic world s “the Malthusian Folly”.

Economist Robert Malthus postulated that the world would soon exceed peak capacity because population increased exponentially while productive capacity increased arithmetically. Malthus failed to account for improved technology and innovation.

Efficiency and productive capacity have increased with population, even exceeding it in some areas. An acre of farmland produces far greater yields now than it did when Malthus was writing. Global production of food, in calories per person, is greater now than it was in 1910.

May we eventually reach a point where production can’t keep up? Possibly. Are we there yet? No

 

[JimG]

Quoting again from Walter Williams:
“Any country faced with massive government interference can be brought to starvation. Blaming poverty on overpopulation not only lets governments off the hook but also encourages the enactment of harmful, inhumane policies.

Today’s poverty has little to do with overpopulation. The most commonly held characteristics of non-poor countries are greater personal liberty, private property rights, the rule of law, and an economic system closer to capitalism than to communism.
That’s the recipe for prosperity.”
Population density doesn’t cause prosperity by itself. It’s an indication that productive resources have been brought together in one place to enable production and prosperity—and the most important renewable resource of all is human beings. Human beings are renewable, adaptive, creative, and productive. Bringing them together to build a society is an asset. That’s why New York City, Singapore, Hong Kong, London, Taiwan, are thriving while small rural towns are not.