Pa. Monsignor Get 3-6 Years

[agnes_therese]

We need to return the church to its pre Vatican II reverence for the mass, Eucharist, and God. Vatican II wasn’t supposed to be a license to do whatever you want, it was to make the mass and church more accessible to the laity. Once we do that, and get a bit more orthodox, these pedophiles and homosexuals will be drummed out of the clergy and the Church will receive Gods full blessing again.

If you truly believe that there was no homosexuality and/or pedophila in the Church before Vatican II, you are living in a fantasy land.

 

[St_Donatus]

If you truly believe that there was no homosexuality and/or pedophila in the Church before Vatican II, you are living in a fantasy land.

Did I say they didn’t exist before Vatican II? Man is sinful, so man will sin. But I think that acting on these impulses was far more widespread after Vatican II, not necessarily because of Vatican II. It is like when my parents told me at 16, I was responsible enough to not have any restrictions on me. What did I do, party time?

Likewise, the 1960s was a time of sexual and moral revolution. Modernism and relativism were King and Queen. Vatican II made changes but also was somewhat vague on many points and many in the Church took this vagueness as an excuse to promote their own ideas and inclinations. Sin was no longer important. Forgiveness and love was what mattered. I was their. I had priests telling me that immorality was not necessarily a bad thing. Love was the important thing. Jesus was love and he forgave our sin. All of us are sinful. With that I figured that it was okay to act on my desires. I am ashamed of what I did, but given the advice of these priests, I am not surprised at my actions. I don’t know of one of the kids that were part of that youth group led by these two priests, which is Catholic today (other than myself after 30 years).

 

[coachkfan1]

Thank you everyone for your responses. I too am very saddened and angered by the continued revelations of abuse and those who covered it up. As one poster said, this is endangering the souls of those who were considering entering the Church. As a convert, it caused me to seriously pause before entering the Church. That being said, the behavior of no man will cause me to leave the Church because I believe that it is truly the Body of Christ.

But it is very wearisome to be constantly hearing of new allegations of abuse. I know that statistics say that it is no more prevelant in the Church than anywhere else, but the Church is supposed to be the “shining city on a hill”. And frankly, there is no excuse or justification that we can give to outsiders who sincerely and without malice ask, “What is going on with the Catholic Church and these child molestors?” I pray that the new reforms that have been instituted will bring about a day when these are rare occurences.

 

[PatriceA]

The rules of the Archdiocese are extremely more severe today than they were 20 years ago. Now, it is like a person who has been accused of sexual abuse is guilty until proven innocent and must be removed immediately. I don’t know of any other organization that is as strict as the Catholic Church is today of protection against sexual abuse. Not even the police arrest someone who they know is guilty even of murder if they do not have enough solid evidence. If my parents were still living and they were to be judged today by rules that we must follow today of things they allowed their children to do in the 50’s, they would be in jailed for child neglect or endangerment. It is easy to look back after the fact and say he should have done this or that.

So you think the Church is too strict on sexual abuse cases? Twenty years ago is NOT that long ago to know what is the right thing to do in situations when someone is accused of a sexual crime against a child. And if someone covered up a crime 20, 30, 40 years ago or chose to ignore what was happening, they should be brought to charges. Its not like sexual abuse crimes were invited within the past 30 years and its all new to people that these things need to be handled swiftly and severly when a child is harmed.

Are you really comparing the parenting styles of your own parents and what was considered acceptable back in the 50s to a sexual crime against a child? I wonder if you really understand what happens to a child when they are sexual abused if you are honestly trying to make the comparison.

I have ZERO sympathy for anyone that is found guilty of covering up or preventing a sexual abuse crime against a child, no matter what decade it took place. I don’t care if it happened yesterday or 100 years ago.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I agree with you. But, this is a version of the “just following orders” defense that has been rejected in the western world since WWII, even in situations where failure to follow orders would have resulted in death.

Except that in the case of sexual abuse, the civil authorities would do nothing if the parents didn’t want to prosecute the offender, which was the usual case. Reason being, parents didn’t want their child to live with the negative stigma. So, without the parents of the child not willing to prosecute, they just accepted that the offending priest would be sent for treatment, which was thought treatable, and then once the doctors gave a clean bill of health, the Bishop would reactivate the priest into a ministry.

So, the priest who obtained knowledge of sexual abuse, would go to the Bishop who would just run the usual course of treatment, then reassignment.

It was wrong, but we have the hindsight of 20-30 years to now know that pedophiles can never be trusted around kids. We also have changes in the law where have rape shield laws where the victims names can be kept from public knowledge.

Jim

 

[zab]

So you think the Church is too strict on sexual abuse cases? Twenty years ago is NOT that long ago to know what is the right thing to do in situations when someone is accused of a sexual crime against a child. And if someone covered up a crime 20, 30, 40 years ago or chose to ignore what was happening, they should be brought to charges. Its not like sexual abuse crimes were invited within the past 30 years and its all new to people that these things need to be handled swiftly and severly when a child is harmed.

Are you really comparing the parenting styles of your own parents and what was considered acceptable back in the 50s to a sexual crime against a child? I wonder if you really understand what happens to a child when they are sexual abused if you are honestly trying to make the comparison.

I have ZERO sympathy for anyone that is found guilty of covering up or preventing a sexual abuse crime against a child, no matter what decade it took place. I don’t care if it happened yesterday or 100 years ago.

So you think you know what I think?

 

[manygift1spirit]

I live in PA, and my observations are thus:

The journalistic coverage of the trial was horrendous. It was extraordinarily colored. No surprise really, but sad still. For example, on the main Philly newsradio I heard something like “Lynn gave a tortured answer”

I think the appeal that may be planned will have a good chance of at least granting a new trial, on account of the judge showing undue prejudice. I was actually surprised she was not removed and a new one put in. I have also heard local allegations that the DA has been involved with SNAP, but admit that is still hearsay. If that could be vouched for, however, that would be very problematic. Perhaps not grounds for removal, but makes you question if justice is the goal here.

I agree with others that his sentencing is really partly in proxy for those that could not be tried, and to some extent the institutional church itself. I have mixed feelings about this, as sending a message is helpful, but using the justice system to perform an injustice, to prevent future injustices, seems dubious. A somewhat parallel situation is of course unfolding a couple hundred miles west of Philadelphia, with the Penn State affair. Here the wrongdoing was much clearer, yet there is a reasonable case for some of the sanctions being an overreaction, as they hugely impact people who had nothing to do with the wrongdoing.

My summary feeling is I would like to see an appeal and winning a more fair retrial, but would be perfectly satisfied if the conviction was refound.

 

[St_Donatus]

Except that in the case of sexual abuse, the civil authorities would do nothing if the parents didn’t want to prosecute the offender, which was the usual case. Reason being, parents didn’t want their child to live with the negative stigma. So, without the parents of the child not willing to prosecute, they just accepted that the offending priest would be sent for treatment, which was thought treatable, and then once the doctors gave a clean bill of health, the Bishop would reactivate the priest into a ministry.

So, the priest who obtained knowledge of sexual abuse, would go to the Bishop who would just run the usual course of treatment, then reassignment.

It was wrong, but we have the hindsight of 20-30 years to now know that pedophiles can never be trusted around kids. We also have changes in the law where have rape shield laws where the victims names can be kept from public knowledge.

Jim

Very well said and very true. Back then it was thought best to sweep it under the rug. I know that if this had happened to one of us, my parents would have questioned the priest, notified the Bishop but then NOT prosecuted and moved us to a new parish. Back then it would have been thought that ruining a priests future would have been worse than the sexual misconduct. We would have considered the blessings the priest gave to hundreds and even thousands of the faithful would have outweighed the harm he did to me. (They thought, the needs of the many, outweighed the harm done to the few.)

 

[robtax]

I know the gates of hell will not prevail against our church…I believe this and history has shown this is true. But our leadership’s failure to properly clean house, bring all the skeletons to life, has absolutely impacted the church’s credibility when it comes to moral issues. This has created scandal of epic proportions and sadly there seems to be no end in sight as the cases just keep coming to light. Just when you think we are out of them, bam, another hits the news.

Sometimes I feel that we lay catholics are basically stuck. There is no action we can take to force a house cleaning and there is nothing forcing those that can to do so. But maybe with the conviction of this person, maybe they will re-think. Or sadly the story of our time in the church will be about how the church’s voice was silenced because the shepards failed to lead.

And we wonder why no one listens anymore.

 

[Gefra]

''There is no action we can take to force a house cleaning and there is nothing forcing those that can to do so."

I realize that it is wishful thinking, but I would love to see the former director of the FBI who conducted the Penn State abuse investigation conduct a thorough review of the actions of the hierarchs who had responsibility for those priests that were child abusers.

Horrific damage has been done to the souls, minds and hearts of thousands of victims by the criminal predators. It has only been exacerbated by the cover ups and transfers of the priest abusers by their immoral episcopal leadership.

 

[PatriceA]

So you think you know what I think?

Only responding to your comment. I would hope you put your thoughts on this subject in the words you took time to type out. Or perhaps you would like to expand further on your post I quoted so there is no misunderstanding. I don’t think I read anything into your comment that wasn’t there in black and white. If you think differently than what I wrote in my response to your comment, why not expand further in your next response rather than responding with a snarky comment.

 

[PatriceA]

''There is no action we can take to force a house cleaning and there is nothing forcing those that can to do so."

I realize that it is wishful thinking, but I would love to see the former director of the FBI who conducted the Penn State abuse investigation conduct a thorough review of the actions of the hierarchs who had responsibility for those priests that were child abusers.

Horrific damage has been done to the souls, minds and hearts of thousands of victims by the criminal predators. It has only been exacerbated by the cover ups and transfers of the priest abusers by their immoral episcopal leadership.

I agree with this.

 

[St_Donatus]

It is interesting how the media has painted such a evil picture of the Catholic Church that even Catholics seem to think is true. Do any of you ever look at the statistics of child abuse in this country? If the Church became more like the society that you seem to think is so great, this kind of sexual conduct would increase many times. The sexual abuse of children is many times higher in the public school system than it is among priests in the Catholic church. This is a statistical fact. The average number of cases among the children sexually abused in our society is at least twice as high as it is among Catholic Priests. Yes, it should never happen but I am sorry, we live in a world where Satan does everything he can to destroy the Catholic Church.

Yes, there should be a house cleaning in several areas of the church, not only these sexually perverts but those clergy that teach heretical teaching, and other issues. As far as I can see, this is the best tool Satan has to bring down the Church and Church needs to take care of it. But we also need to keep it in perspective. Why doesn’t the media go after the public schools. Could it be that the media too is being used as a tool of Satan to attack the church.

 

[Holly3278]

I hope God protects him during his time in prison. It could be a very dangerous place for him.

 

[zab]

Only responding to your comment. I would hope you put your thoughts on this subject in the words you took time to type out. Or perhaps you would like to expand further on your post I quoted so there is no misunderstanding. I don’t think I read anything into your comment that wasn’t there in black and white. If you think differently than what I wrote in my response to your comment, why not expand further in your next response rather than responding with a snarky comment.

I was saying that the rules (guidelines) for protecting against sexual abuse are more more strict today than they were decades ago. I do realize that it is how it must be. And like JimR-OCDS said, " we have the hindsight of 20-30 years to now know that pedophiles can never be trusted around kids."

 

[kompaz]

The statistics on rehabilitation are not, nor were ever very good.

Let mne clarify what I meant.

Of course, a pedophile should be isolated from children and the society. But a pedophile is a mentally disordered person. That somewhat decreases his moral culpability: he is following an uncontrollable sexual urge.

Because of that, a person who does a pedophile cover-up is morally worse than a pedophile. He is not driven by a sexual urge he cannot control. He has a complete understanding of his actions. And he covers up the pedophile’s actions, knowing full well how many lives he is destroying.

To use a more graphic comparison. Consider a prison. In that prison, works a sadistic prison guard. He tortures prisoners, because he likes it and he can’t help it. Yet that guard only works there, because the prison manager has hired him, has ignored repeated prisoner’s complaints and has repeatedly reported to the authorities that dead prisoners found on the block have commited suicide…

That is why they deserve harsher treatment than actual abusers.

 

[St_Donatus]

I hope God protects him during his time in prison. It could be a very dangerous place for him.

Yes, we all must pray for him. We also need to pray for the Catholic Church and her people. That these evils of man may not distract or detract from our faith in God’s only representative on earth. The source of through which we can most effectively receive his blessings. May God protect and have mercy on Monsignor William Lynn as he pays for his own sins and those of others.

 

[zab]

Because of that, a person who does a pedophile cover-up is morally worse than a pedophile. He is not driven by a sexual urge he cannot control. He has a complete understanding of his actions. And he covers up the pedophile’s actions, knowing full well how many lives he is destroying.

I disagree with you on this for several reasons:

1. Priests are not professionals in the area of mental disorders, etc. Before we had the guidlines in place that we have now, they dealt with this by consulting “experts” in the field of phychiatry/phychology to help them treat and evaluate the offender. It has been reported expert advisors gave the OK for the former offender to be placed once again in a parish setting after having had treatment.
2. We know more today than we knew decades ago that treatment has not been successful with pedophiles. That is the reason for the strict and seemingly unfair but necessary guidelines for protection against sexual abuse that the Archdiocese has today.
3. They did not know “full well how many lives he is destroying” because many of these cases did not come forward until years later giving us the impact on how difficult it has been for them living their lives.

 

[trapper1]

It is interesting how the media has painted such a evil picture of the Catholic Church that even Catholics seem to think is true. Do any of you ever look at the statistics of child abuse in this country? If the Church became more like the society that you seem to think is so great, this kind of sexual conduct would increase many times. The sexual abuse of children is many times higher in the public school system than it is among priests in the Catholic church. This is a statistical fact. The average number of cases among the children sexually abused in our society is at least twice as high as it is among Catholic Priests. Yes, it should never happen but I am sorry, we live in a world where Satan does everything he can to destroy the Catholic Church.

Yes, there should be a house cleaning in several areas of the church, not only these sexually perverts but those clergy that teach heretical teaching, and other issues. As far as I can see, this is the best tool Satan has to bring down the Church and Church needs to take care of it. But we also need to keep it in perspective. Why doesn’t the media go after the public schools. Could it be that the media too is being used as a tool of Satan to attack the church.

I recently came accross the following article in Newsweek/the Daily Beast regarding how the church compares to the rest of society and other faiths on this issue.

thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/04/07/mean-men.html

The Catholic sex-abuse stories emerging every day suggest that Catholics have a much bigger problem with child molestation than other denominations and the general population. Many point to peculiarities of the Catholic Church (its celibacy rules for priests, its insular hierarchy, its exclusion of women) to infer that there’s something particularly pernicious about Catholic clerics that predisposes them to these horrific acts. It’s no wonder that, back in 2002—when the last Catholic sex-abuse scandal was making headlines—a Wall Street Journal-NBC News poll found that 64 percent of those queried thought Catholic priests "frequently’’ abused children.
Yet experts say there’s simply no data to support the claim at all. No formal comparative study has ever broken down child sexual abuse by denomination, and only the Catholic Church has released detailed data about its own. But based on the surveys and studies conducted by different denominations over the past 30 years, experts who study child abuse say they see little reason to conclude that sexual abuse is mostly a Catholic issue. “We don’t see the Catholic Church as a hotbed of this or a place that has a bigger problem than anyone else,” said Ernie Allen, president of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. “I can tell you without hesitation that we have seen cases in many religious settings, from traveling evangelists to mainstream ministers to rabbis and others.”
Since the mid-1980s, insurance companies have offered sexual misconduct coverage as a rider on liability insurance, and their own studies indicate that Catholic churches are not higher risk than other congregations. Insurance companies that cover all denominations, such as Guide One Center for Risk Management, which has more than 40,000 church clients, does not charge Catholic churches higher premiums. “We don’t see vast difference in the incidence rate between one denomination and another,” says Sarah Buckley, assistant vice president of corporate communications. “It’s pretty even across the denominations.” It’s been that way for decades. While the company saw an uptick in these claims by all types of churches around the time of the 2002 U.S. Catholic sex-abuse scandal, Eric Spacick, Guide One’s senior church-risk manager, says “it’s been pretty steady since.” On average, the company says 80 percent of the sexual misconduct claims they get from all denominations involve sexual abuse of children. As a result, the more children’s programs a church has, the more expensive its insurance, officials at Guide One said.

 

[pnewton]

Vatican 2 has nothing to do with this. Please don’t confuse the effects of liberal secular culture on individuals and society in general, with Church teaching.

The abuse of children is not a doctrinal problem. Any attempt to connect them is agenda driven. It is like calling anyone you do not like Nazis.