Pa. Monsignor Get 3-6 Years

[JimR-OCDS]

clem

I

f a person were looking to pass along accountability,I guess this would be acting responsibly to them. Speaking realistically, these coaches almost literally live with one another. Even at our high school football coaches spend hours together watching football films until the wee hours of the morning. At the major college and pro levels, they do spend 16+ hours per day with one another. Joe Paterno passed the buck to save the sacred football program. Please don’t make excuses, because this institutionalized cowardice is exactly what perpetuates this evil. It takes the cover of secrecy, cowardice, shame…an office near the showers given by your good buddie Joe. No excuses.

As I understand it, the abuses at the Penn State University, occurred at off season times, not during the football season. This is when Sandusky brought kids from his charity program to the university to work out with them.

This is complete fiction. They absolutely tolerated and enabled the sexual abuse of minors. Read the report. Which civil authorities with full knowlege gave them a pass? Other than the locals who they keep in their back pocket. Which lawyers? A few superiorsacting as enablers does not exonerate cooperation with evil. Never. Not at Penn State,not in the Church.

The majority didn’t enable and tolerate the abuse of minors. They followed the protocol of the time.

I don’t buy it as an excuse. That line of thinking says that Church authority of a different age did not have a natural sense that sexual abuse was wrong and that human beings were being harmed.

Was there a similar sense about homosexuality?

I don’t get your point here, but yes, there is different attitude toward homosexuality in the priesthood than what it was back in the 1960’s when many of the abusers were ordained.

How about rape, was there some grey area years ago? Or is it just the defenseless kids who can be marginalized?

You must be too young to remember the negative stigma a victim of rape went through.

In many cases, they could kiss getting married good-bye, especially if they were raped by a black man. The negative connection to being raped caused the victims to require being institutionalized in mental institutions, which had their own set of problems back then.

Rather I think that in the case of both Penn State andthe Church it was expedient to throw the kids under the bus to protect the status quo, while giving lip service to justice and rehabilitation.

You’re misreading what I said. They didn’t throw the kids who were abused under the bus per se, but acted according to the protocol of the time.

Today, the victims don’t suffer the negative stigmas of times pass, and prosecuting perverts is far easier and more prominent than in the past, because the victim can take the stand against the predator, without loosing their mental state and social life in the process.

Try to look at what happen, not with the understanding of 2012, but that of 20-30 years ago.

Jim

 

[zab]

zab;9572795:

Nope sorry, those quotes were not mine.

And that is not mine either, but it is yours, Seeker1961!

 

[clem456]

clem

I

As I understand it, the abuses at the Penn State University, occurred at off season times, not during the football season. This is when Sandusky brought kids from his charity program to the university to work out with them.

The majority didn’t enable and tolerate the abuse of minors. They followed the protocol of the time.

I don’t get your point here, but yes, there is different attitude toward homosexuality in the priesthood than what it was back in the 1960’s when many of the abusers were ordained.

You must be too young to remember the negative stigma a victim of rape went through.

In many cases, they could kiss getting married good-bye, especially if they were raped by a black man. The negative connection to being raped caused the victims to require being institutionalized in mental institutions, which had their own set of problems back then.

You’re misreading what I said. They didn’t throw the kids who were abused under the bus per se, but acted according to the protocol of the time.

Today, the victims don’t suffer the negative stigmas of times pass, and prosecuting perverts is far easier and more prominent than in the past, because the victim can take the stand against the predator, without loosing their mental state and social life in the process.

Try to look at what happen, not with the understanding of 2012, but that of 20-30 years ago.

Jim

What does it matter what time of the year Sandusky committed his crimes?

I may be misreading somewhat where your sympathies lie here.
But the protocol of the time be damned. Evil is evil. The protocol was evil. The protocol was formed by individuals who made bad choices and formed a culture that was unaccountable. And Penn State was not even 15 years ago.
All of us have at times done things we thought were “ok” only to be slapped with reality. That’s how evil gets changed. There is siimply no excuse whatsoever for any of these bad decisions that were made, and the punishment is what it is. Joe Paterno and the Monsignor surely did not have such poorly formed consciences that they didn’t think at one time “maybe I should do something”. They chose not to. In fact they chose much worse than inaction, they chose to enable.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

clem

What does it matter what time of the year Sandusky committed his crimes?

It matters because that’s when many of the administration and coaches are on vacation.
Who knew what is conjecture at this point.

I may be misreading somewhat where your sympathies lie here.
But the protocol of the time be damned. Evil is evil. The protocol was evil. The protocol was formed by individuals who made bad choices and formed a culture that was unaccountable.

You can’t ignore the context of the time when these things happened. Just as when you study history you must do so in the context of the time it happened, otherwise you’ll be misunderstanding the judgment of people of those times.

And Penn State was not even 15 years ago.

Well the case was reported 15 years ago, but the event is a little older.

I’m not naive, and it is very probable, that the administration and head coaching staff at Penn State were looking to protect the university, but at the same time, I have no doubt they consulted with the experts at the time. As I said earlier, there was a report that the District Attorney was told about it, and he gave advise to the university on what to do, and they followed his advice, which was essentially, do next to nothing.

The big problem in the Penn State case is that many of the victims were orphans, so they didn’t have parents who they were looking to to help them. There were sadly alone during this.

All of us have at times done things we thought were “ok” only to be slapped with reality. That’s how evil gets changed. There is siimply no excuse whatsoever for any of these bad decisions that were made, and the punishment is what it is. Joe Paterno and the Monsignor surely did not have such poorly formed consciences that they didn’t think at one time “maybe I should do something”. They chose not to. In fact they chose much worse than inaction, they chose to enable.

Evil doesn’t change, but mental understanding of mental disorders does, and during the times when most of the cases of sex abuse by priest occured, it was believed that it was a treatable disorder, and that’s how they treated the priests.

Sandusky is a different animal, and being in the secular world, there was no one over him that could order him to do anything. Also, the cases of abuses that were reported are sketchy as to how they were reported.

Lets face it, a person comes to you and tells you that your father is abusing little boys. Is your first reaction going to be, pick up the phone and call the cops? No, instead, before running your father’s reputation, you’re going to investigate.

However, in today’s world under today’s laws, you’ll be indicted for not reporting it.

Jim

 

[Seeker1961]

Seeker1961;9573624:

And that is not mine either, but it is yours, Seeker1961!

Sorry, but those quotes were not mine. I don’t know whose they were, but I do know they were not mine.

 

[zab]

Seeker1961, Sorry for not making it more clear which post that I was referring to. The quoting system is messed up so it get increasing difficult…Way back when I responded to St. Donatus’s post** #57**, his quote says it is from zab, but that quote was from your post #53.

 

[Seeker1961]

The post in #58 was NOT written by me. I wrote post #53, but what is showing in post #58 was a response to that.

 

[zab]

The post in #58 was NOT written by me. I wrote post #53, but what is showing in post #58 was a response to that.

Post #58 was written by ME in respone to St Donatus’s post #57 who quoted your post #53. All I’m saying is that the quoting system is/was messed up.

NOTE: Sorry to have disrailed the thread. I give up trying to explain this common problem with the quoting system.

 

[ringil]

Yeah, I think that is what he wants to see

 

[ringil]

For the most part, whether it’s the Catholic Church or an educational institution where a sexual predator worked, they followed the protocol of the day as advised by doctors, lawers and law enforcement.

Today, we’re prosecuting the leaders of those organizations with today’s standards, in that all criminal acts against minors must be reported to the police.

It’s the right thing to do, but it wasn’t the way it was handled in the past, based on the experts in the field of law enforcement and psychology.

The Penn State scandal is an example. The leaders are punished for following the advice of lawyers and law enforcement officials at the time, and now good names are ruined as a result of enforcing today’s standards on them.

People mentioned the parents, yes, why didn’t the parents go to law enforcement when their child was sexually molested by a priest or teacher ? Where is their accountability?

The reason they’re not mentioned is because they don’t have deep pockets of money to be made by trial lawyers chomping at the bit.

No child should ever be abused, but the fact that today a child won’t have to live a life in the school yard with the negative stigma that past ages had to endure, is a reason why we can prosecute abusers.

Jim

I must admit that I’m a bit surprised by your opinions regarding this issue.

In the area of sexual abuse I believe Christ may be allowing for the chastisement of His Church.

I don’t blame the media either. I thank them for forcing this issue to light.

 

[ringil]

A good name resulting from squelching the truth is a manufactured reputation.
.

AMEN!

You put that so well and accurately.

 

[Seeker1961]

I must admit that I’m a bit surprised by your opinions regarding this issue.

In the area of sexual abuse I believe Christ may be allowing for the chastisement of His Church.

I don’t blame the media either. I thank them for forcing this issue to light.

I agree with you. The Boston Globe and the other reporters that dug and dug and dug to get the truth on this issue are owed gratitude, not condemnation. I LOVE my church and I do not want men like that serving her in any capacity. It would have been better if our own church administration had gotten these men out, but we can only hope that will be what happens now.

 

[ringil]

Seeker1961;9572154:

Yes, but notice how the media is DOES NOT condemn Penn State, they keep condemning the individuals that were involved. The last story on Penn State was glorifying them as a wonderful example when they took down ‘Joe Paterno’s’ statue. But they always attack the Catholic church and NOT the individuals who commited the Crimes. To this day, I do not know they name of one priest who was a child molester. I know the names of the Bishops and others of the diocese that the children were molested in, but not the names of those who commited the crimes. That is because the media wants to bring down the church but they don’t want to hurt an institution that faithfully teaches athiesm and gay rights.

You’ve never heard of Paul Gauguin and Paul Shanley? You must have been living under a rock to have not learned of these monsters.

 

[ringil]

I agree with you. The Boston Globe and the other reporters that dug and dug and dug to get the truth on this issue are owed gratitude, not condemnation. I LOVE my church and I do not want men like that serving her in any capacity. It would have been better if our own church administration had gotten these men out, but we can only hope that will be what happens now.

Indeed, it is precisely because I love the Church that I seek justice here. Only the Church is Christ’s complete tool of Salvation on Earth.

The Catholic Church isn’t Penn State. It isn’t the School system. It isn’t even a Protestant body. It is the visible face of Christ on Earth and I expect MORE out of it and it’s members.

The Church, in my mind is held to a higher standard than all other institutions because of it’s insular role in the word. We need churchmen humbling themselves (as many are) before this scandal, not standing up haughtily and crying “foul”.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I must admit that I’m a bit surprised by your opinions regarding this issue.

In the area of sexual abuse I believe Christ may be allowing for the chastisement of His Church.

I don’t blame the media either. I thank them for forcing this issue to light.

I believe the Church is being purged of the evil that was in it.

Jim

 

[zab]

rigil;9571666:

Well, in Boston much of the settlement money was paid by selling off the palatial Cardinal’s mansion and grounds. Now Cardinal Sean lives in a normal two story home.

I’m cool with that. How about you?

Well, I think it is good that the diocese had the means to pay the penalty that was imposed upon the Church, which includes the people who make up the Church in the Archdiocese of Boston. And Cardinal Sean O’Malley, being a member of a Religious Order that takes a vow of poverty, unlike diocecean priests, is content to live a more simple life even though he is not required to as he holds his in his current position. The question is, could the property or sale of property have been used to better help the people of the Archdiocese of Boston.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

St Donatus;9572744:

You’ve never heard of Paul Gauguin and Paul Shanley? You must have been living under a rock to have not learned of these monsters.

Paul Gaugin was convicted for pushing a boy by the buttocks as he helped him out a swimming pool. This was the only crime he was convicted of, although he had a reputation of touching boys inappropriately, but never raped a child.
While serving time in prison, the guards purposely put a convicted murderer in his cell, who strangled Gaugin to death.

Paul Shanely was a monster, and he began his abuse while still in the seminary at St. John’s in Brighton, MA. There was a story about Shanely threatening Cardinal Medeiros with blackmail, if he was removed from the seminary. I never learned what the blackmail was about, buy I’m guessing that Shanely, a real child molester, was going to expose the homosexuality that was happening at the seminary. Shanely belonged to NAMBLA and also took vacations in Thailand, of course where prostitution of boys is allowed.

When Cardinal Law took over the dioceses he wanted Shanley gone, but Shanely again managed to hang on for a while until he agreed to move to California. This is where Cardinal Law lost my respect. He wrote a glowing letter of recommendation to( I believe), the Dioceses in San Bernadino for Fr Shanely, in order to get rid of him.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

ringil;9576458:

Well, I think it is good that the diocese had the means to pay the penalty that was imposed upon the Church, which includes the people who make up the Church in the Archdiocese of Boston. And Cardinal Sean O’Malley, being a member of a Religious Order that takes a vow of poverty, unlike diocecean priests, is content to live a more simple life even though he is not required to as he holds his in his current position. The question is, could the property or sale of property have been used to better help the people of the Archdiocese of Boston.

Among the property that was sold, was a mansion on the Cape, which was originally used as a retreat house for the dioceses. When Cardinal Law took over, he converted it into his own summer residence. Also sold was the Mansion in Brighton, which again, Cardinal Law made into his own private residence.

Cardinal O’Malley took and apartment in South Boston and he would ride public transportation to work each morning, with his brown bagged lunch. However, people were being drawn to him so much that it was becoming problematic for him to make it to appointments, so, he started driving his little Ford to work.

Cardinal O’Malley’s humility and holiness is why the dioceses is starting to heal.

Jim

 

[ringil]

ringil;9576515:

Paul Gaugin was convicted for pushing a boy by the buttocks as he helped him out a swimming pool. This was the only crime he was convicted of, although he had a reputation of touching boys inappropriately, but never raped a child.
While serving time in prison, the guards purposely put a convicted murderer in his cell, who strangled Gaugin to death.

Paul Shanely was a monster, and he began his abuse while still in the seminary at St. John’s in Brighton, MA. There was a story about Shanely threatening Cardinal Medeiros with blackmail, if he was removed from the seminary. I never learned what the blackmail was about, buy I’m guessing that Shanely, a real child molester, was going to expose the homosexuality that was happening at the seminary. Shanely belonged to NAMBLA and also took vacations in Thailand, of course where prostitution of boys is allowed.

When Cardinal Law took over the dioceses he wanted Shanley gone, but Shanely again managed to hang on for a while until he agreed to move to California. This is where Cardinal Law lost my respect. He wrote a glowing letter of recommendation to( I believe), the Dioceses in San Bernadino for Fr Shanely, in order to get rid of him.

Jim

Well, why the hell was Gauguin “touching boys”?? Yes, I suppose it is unfortunate that he was killed in prison,. Prison is a dangerous place and touching kids will land you there.

I respected Cardinal Law also and was really let down in his handling of this situation.

Priests and Bishops who cover for other priests are nearly as guilty as the abusers as they basically “sic” the predators upon their flock. Not a great shepherd if you ask me.

I just PRAY PRAY PRAY that the Cardinals check this out before they elect our next Pope. I want a %100 clean record on this issue.

 

[ringil]

zab;9576716:

Among the property that was sold, was a mansion on the Cape, which was originally used as a retreat house for the dioceses. When Cardinal Law took over, he converted it into his own summer residence. Also sold was the Mansion in Brighton, which again, Cardinal Law made into his own private residence.

Jim

What the heck?!? Did Law think he was living in the 15th century or something?!?

Ostentatious displays of wealth is so “yesterday” in the Church. They don’t all need to be Franciscans but come on!!!