Pacha Mamma at the Synod (Poll)

[GiftofMercy]

Pachamama as a goddess is a false god.

We are taught in the Bible in both the Old and New testaments that all false gods are demons. The supernatural diabolical. The exorcists of the church teach this also.

 

[AlbertDerGrosse]

I did not vote. Pachamama * does not exist.

Catechism 2112:

“The first commandment condemns polytheism . It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God.”

The amount of sophistry employed here as of late just to square all these papal circles is ridiculous. What’s worse is that it seems to have infected a lot of really bright people here whom I once respected. Such a shame.

 

[Vico]

Vico:

Pachamama as a goddess is a false god.

We are taught in the Bible in both the Old and New testaments that all false gods are demons. The supernatural diabolical. The exorcists of the church teach this also.

Some false gods are not demons, per Catholic teaching.

 

[GiftofMercy]

Some false gods are not demons, per Catholic teaching

As per Catholic teaching all false gods of the gentiles are pagan demons. Gentile being non Jew. This is in both the Old and New Testament. The word used is all.

Catholic tradition supports this where exorcists will discuss those they meet during their exorcisms.

We really need to start listening to our exorcists. Those who have a job to do and speak to us about some of it. And how to keep the door to the diabolical shut firmly

 

[pnewton]

We are taught in the Bible in both the Old and New testaments that all false gods are demons.

St. Paul wrote in First Corinthians 8

So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that “An idol is nothing at all in the world” and that “There is no God but one.”

Then:

But not everyone possesses this knowledge. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat sacrificial food they think of it as having been sacrificed to a god, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.

 

[pnewton]

Vico:

Some false gods are not demons, per Catholic teaching

As per Catholic teaching all false gods of the gentiles are pagan demons. Gentile being non Jew. This is in both the Old and New Testament. The word used is all.

I have been through the Catechism and do not recall this. Any idea where this claim comes from? The Catechism says:

The first commandment condemns polytheism . It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God. Scripture constantly recalls this rejection of "idols, [of] silver and gold, the work of men’s hands.

Are you saying men’s hands made demons? That is the conclusion if a man made statue is demonic.

 

[vz71]

The Catholic Church defended veneration of icons and it continues every day to incense and bow to icons.

They offered up fruit.
That falls under worship.

 

[porthos11]

vz71:

catholic03:

The Vatican says it represents fertility and life. Originally, they said it was a representation of Our Lady of the Amazon. But they have confirmed it instead represents fertility and life.

So these people offered towards a symbol?
That doesn’t square with what we know of worship.

The Catholic Church defended veneration of icons and it continues every day to incense and bow to icons. Perhaps you mean something else but veneration is a type of worship, and is not adoration.

Really? You’re using the theology of icons the justify this?

Okay let’s break this down. The icon is a representation of its prototype, and the veneration of an icon passes to its prototype. So if you burn incense to an icon of, say, the Christ Pantocrator, you are offering your worship to Christ. No problem there.

So if you are to grant that this thing is an icon, it’s an icon of what? And if it’s an icon of…something…that something has a prayer to it from its original believers, which contains these words:

Pachamama of these places, drink and eat this offering at will, so that this earth may be fruitful.

So is this an icon of the Blessed Virgin? Because we don’t offer her sacrifice of food and drink. We do not use that language with her. So if it’s not the Blessed Virgin, it’s an icon of something else. Is it fertility and life? We don’t offer a prayer to fertility and life. And the veneration of an icon passes on to its prototype. And if that prototype doesn’t exist, then that’s worship of a false god. And worse, there may be a prototype behind it, a prototype we don’t want anything to do with.

So no, the theology of icons cannot be used to justify this. They already dealt with this long ago at Nicaea II.

 

[porthos11]

porthos11:

I am less sure about them being men of God and true followers of Christ.

I was saying that the men you listed were men of God.

Just like our pope and the other Cardinals.

Ah, yes, I missed your quote.

Yep. I completely accept Fr. Pacwa, Cardinal Burke, Bishop Schneider, Cardinal Sarah, Cardinal Mueller as true men of God. I would take their word over anyone’s on this matter.

 

[pnewton]

Vico:

The Catholic Church defended veneration of icons and it continues every day to incense and bow to icons.

They offered up fruit.
That falls under worship.

Do we not offer flower to the Virgin in front of a statue? I am not giving an opinion on this incident, but only pointing out that is not a workable definition of veneration vs. worship.

 

[porthos11]

vz71:

Vico:

The Catholic Church defended veneration of icons and it continues every day to incense and bow to icons.

They offered up fruit.
That falls under worship.

Do we not offer flower to the Virgin in front of a statue? I am not giving an opinion on this incident, but only pointing out that is not a workable definition of veneration vs. worship.

And yet we do not tell the Blessed Virgin to accept these flowers as an offering so that the earth would be fruitful. And further, an image of the Blessed Virgin is a representation of the Blessed Virgin, and we would never use that kind of language with her. The Pachamama prayer says something very different. It clearly shows that it is regarded as a deity by its native worshippers, and on their syncretic pantheon is higher than even Jesus.

So no comparison.