Paedophilia 'not a criminal condition', says Cardinal Napier

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The laws we create in society define those situations that society deems important enough to regulate.

Having the urge to be a pedophile itself is not a criminal condition. But once a law is in place defining that acting on those feelings (touching, sex, etc) is criminal…then you have a problem.

What I feel the Cardinal’s statement says is that the feelings associated with being a pedophile are not criminal. ACTING on them is.
 
The cardinal mentioned two priests he knew who were abused as children and went on to become pedophiles.
He told the BBC: "Don’t tell me that those people are criminally responsible like somebody who chooses to do something like that.
“I don’t think you can really take the position and say that person deserves to be punished when he was himself damaged.”
From this statement it appears that the Cardinal is trying to say that if some pedophiles were abused themselves, then this caused the tendency to be a pedophile, and therefore they should not be punished.

I disagree. Every person has the responsibility to follow the laws of the land, regardless of what childhood situation they may have been involved in. While a traumatic childhood may be brought into consideration during the defining of punishment for a crime, it does not negate that a crime was committed and punishment is required. These priests were still pedophiles and still deserved to be punished for the crimes they committed. While in jail they could then receive any treatment deemed necessary to overcome their childhood trauma.
 
The problem with that statement is that it implies that people have no control over their actions, which they do.

Maybe they were abused as kids and that for some reason gives them the urge to abuse kids as adults, but that doesn’t mean they have the right to act upon those urges.

Everyone is called to chastity according to his or her state in life.
 
The problem with that statement is that it implies that people have no control over their actions, which they do.

Maybe they were abused as kids and that for some reason gives them the urge to abuse kids as adults, but that doesn’t mean they have the right to act upon those urges.

Everyone is called to chastity according to his or her state in life.
I agree. Compassion is warranted for the abused, but never the less we are all called equally unto chastity. Not one is exempt from this call.
 
independent.co.uk/news/paedophilia-not-a-criminal-condition-says-leading-catholic-8537193.html

Although theologically I understand what Cardinal Napier is saying… I am deeply concerned about the punishment perspective, and consider this a core reason why several people were permitted to continue their evil acts… What am I missing here?

God Bless,

Tom (Cradle Catholic)
Hello thomasj
The paedophilia issue is something I have tried to understand.
A few years ago now, the parish priest of one of my sisters was unmasked as a paedophile. I became very angry and bitter towards the church. I left the church. I watched my sister lose weight almost overnight because she was worried about her own children.
Something I now realise is that a person can’t become a priest first and then become a paedophile. Some might have turned to the priesthood in the hope that it will provide the answer to what they inwardly recognise as a problem. There may be an inward battle of self condemnation going on. The criminal mind doesn’t do that. The criminal mind attempts to justify its actions. The cardinal has mentioned victims of child abuse becoming paedophiles. They may carry the most dreadful scars of wounds that they can’t mention. It may come out in a vile way.
A priest will confess to a priest and the priest has to take it as a heartfelt confession and are unable to speak of it.
The church has to deal with a very sad problem and is doing so…
 
The paedophilia issue is something I have tried to understand.
Of all the articles I’ve read, this shed the most light on this topic: “In debate situations, atheists have attempted to float the idea that pedophile priests over the years have advanced to higher positions within the Catholic Church hierarchy, and subsequently drafted internal legal directives, documents and mandates to insulate and protect themselves from outside litigation. There may be a certain logic to this supposition. In his viral paper “Standing with the Pope Against Homoheresy”, Fr. Dariusz Oko, Ph.D. revealed that Pope Benedict XVI was battling a huge homosexual underground in the Vatican known as the Lavender Mafia “When they achieve a decision-making position, they try to promote and advance mostly those whose nature is similar to theirs” (42). “80 percent of pedophiles convicted in the USA are homosexuals”. 90 percent of Priests convicted of pedophilia are homosexual. The bottom line is that Priests do not become pedophiles, pedophiles become Priests”.

ArguingWithAtheists.com
 
Of all the articles I’ve read, this shed the most light on this topic: “In debate situations, atheists have attempted to float the idea that pedophile priests over the years have advanced to higher positions within the Catholic Church hierarchy, and subsequently drafted internal legal directives, documents and mandates to insulate and protect themselves from outside litigation. There may be a certain logic to this supposition. In his viral paper “Standing with the Pope Against Homoheresy”, Fr. Dariusz Oko, Ph.D. revealed that Pope Benedict XVI was battling a huge homosexual underground in the Vatican known as the Lavender Mafia “When they achieve a decision-making position, they try to promote and advance mostly those whose nature is similar to theirs” (42). “80 percent of pedophiles convicted in the USA are homosexuals”. 90 percent of Priests convicted of pedophilia are homosexual. The bottom line is that Priests do not become pedophiles, pedophiles become Priests”.

ArguingWithAtheists.com
Hello,
you quoted the part that I stated that the paedophile issue is something I have tried to understand. I have prayed to God for that understanding. I also stated that I had left the church because of the issue. I really don’t think I would have returned if the church were not taking the right steps to sort the problem.
The last sentence of what you have said might have an implication. “The bottom line is that Priests do not become pedophiles, pedophiles become Priests”

It would be far more accurate to state that the bottom line is that Priests do not become paedophiles, a small number of paedophiles become a very small number of Priests.
 
I think this story about the Cardinal is important news, and I have seen it at the BBC website and NBC News.

However, I have noticed that the clergy of other religions whom make similar opprobrious statements about child sexual abuse are given a pass by the Media.

Rabbi Hershel Schachter, the head of Talmudic Studies at the Rabbi Isaac Elchanan Theological Seminary of Yeshiva University in New York City, made a statement recently than panels of rabbi psychologists should first screen the allegations of children who claim they have been sexually abused by Jewish clergy to determine if the claim creates a reasonable suspicion of abuse before reporting the allegations to police because law enforcement, and I quote, “can put you in a cell together with a shvartze, with a … . black Muslim who wants to kill all the Jews.”

If there was no bias in the Media, and all religions were treated equally and received the same level of scrutiny, the Media would have reported this news story too, but it’s only being reported in a few Jewish newspapers.
A top rabbinic dean of Yeshiva University has warned rabbis about the dangers of reporting child sex abuse allegations to the police because it could result in a Jew being jailed with a black inmate, or as he put it, “a schvartze,” who might want to kill him.
Rabbi Hershel Schachter, one of the most respected faculty members of the Rabbi Isaac Elchanan Theological Seminary, also said that children can lie and ruin an innocent man’s life . . .
Schachter said Jewish communities should establish panels of rabbis who are also psychologists to first hear such allegations todecide if they are true and if law enforcement authorities should be informed.
forward.com/articles/172957/yeshiva-rabbi-bluntly-warns-sex-abuse-reports-put/?p=all

Rabbi Hershel Schachter is listed as No.12 in Newsweek’s list of ‘America’s Top 50 Rabbis For 2012’:

thedailybeast.com/galleries/2012/04/02/america-s-top-50-rabbis-for-2012.html#slide_25
 
I think Church leaders from all denominations should be very careful to avoid accidentally giving the impression that they are absolving pedophiles of any criminal/moral responsibility - on the grounds that they (pedophiles) lack free will.

Secular society is attacking the Church over pedophiles hiding in the clergy because it regards pedophilia as a crime not a disease or illness. The State understands pedophilia as a form of sexual immorality (Colossians 3) and does not accept ‘‘being born that way’’ as a defence.

However well-meaning (and misguided) prominent Church leaders might be in referring to pedophiles as deserving of sympathy because they are like alcoholics or drug addicts or people with a gambling addiction, it simply comes across as belated ‘‘spin doctoring’’

Moreover, even if pedophilia really was an involuntary disease rather than an immoral sexual desire or preference, why on earth would anyone in the Church try to cover it up?

Exonerating pedophiles, (on the grounds of their mental illness and lack of free will,) greatly amplifies the moral culpability and criminal responsibility of any sane bystander who was aware of the risk to children from such an uncontrollable offender.
 
And if you think pedophilia is an illness rather than a crime, you might want to consider how that affects the status of people who seek out child pornography. Criminals or addicts?
 
And if you think pedophilia is an illness rather than a crime, you might want to consider how that affects the status of people who seek out child pornography. Criminals or addicts?
Way more slippery then that. It’s an illness…they were abused themselves…so if they slip up…it’s an illness…they are trying to fight it…poor baby’s…

And yet…those who they abuse are the ones left fighting terrible demons…many who do not turn around and abuse others…
 
80 percent of pedophiles convicted in the USA are homosexuals
What a nice piece of propaganda.

Care to support it with numbers from official sources(not religiously affected)?
 
The Archbishop is absolutely 100% correct in that pedophilia is not a crime. It is an objectively disordered condition…in as much as there is no circumstance where it is not a grave disruption of the moral order for an adult to have sexual relations with pre-pubescent children.

Acting on that pedophilia is both a crime and a grave sin.

I am certain that being afflicted with pedophilia constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

But what, exactly, constitutes “unjust” discrimination? Should a pedophile, who has not ever acted upon his or her condition, be discriminated against if applying for a job as a construction worker, an office clerk, or some other position where he/she would not have contact with the object of his/her desire? Absolutely not. At the same time, though, it would be both an unacceptable risk and a cruel temptation to place that person in a job where he/she would be in close, unsupervised proximity to the object of his/her paraphilia. Obviously, one would not think about allowing a pedophile to be, for example, a day care worker, an elementary school teacher, or a Christian pastor (or, for that matter a Jewish rabbi or a Muslim imam).

I believe that it is patently obvious that those who are authentically pedophiles are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

Having said that, to repeat, Acting on that pedophilia is both a crime and a grave sin. Society must have the appropriate laws in place to severely sanction ones who would be tempted to act on their desire. Society must take action, in the sad event that it does happen…to restore the correct order and to protect future victims. It goes without saying that society should not be so “tolerant” as to allow such grave moral disorders to happen in the name of “tolerance.”

Bestiality is not a crime. It is an objectively disordered condition…in as much as there is no circumstance where it is not a grave disruption of the moral order for an human to have sexual relations with animals.

Acting on that bestiality is both a crime and a grave sin.

I am certain that being afflicted with bestiality constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

But what, exactly, constitutes “unjust” discrimination? Should one afflicted with bestiality, who has not ever acted upon his or her condition, be discriminated against if applying for a job as a construction worker, an office clerk, or some other position where he/she would not have contact with the object of his/her desire? Absolutely not. At the same time, though, it would be both an unacceptable risk and a cruel temptation to place that person in a job where he/she would be in close, unsupervised proximity to the object of his/her paraphilia. Obviously, one would not think about allowing one with bestiality to be, for example, veterinarian, a horse trainer or a dog groomer.

I believe that it is patently obvious that those who are authentically afflicted with bestiality are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

Having said that, to repeat, *Acting on that bestiality is both a crime and a grave sin. *Society must have the appropriate laws in place to severely sanction ones who would be tempted to act on their desire. Society must take action, in the sad event that it does happen…to restore the correct order and to protect future victims. It goes without saying that society should not be so “tolerant” as to allow such grave moral disorders to happen in the name of “tolerance.”
 
I am rather outraged by the Cardinal’s statements especially in light of the ongoing saga of clergy-sex abuse and cover-up. The statement muddies the waters as to exactly how this Cardinal would deal with a report of abuse as he apparently would provide solace to the abuser. Do you wonder why we have dwindling attendance? Dwindling contributions? Dwindling calls to religious life?
 
If my child were a victim of abuse I would call the police before I called the Church, makes no difference what kind of a job the abuser has!

People who try to circumvent their civic and parental responsibility by throwing the ball to the Church or Synagogue baffle me. Talk to the cops, then let the cops talk to the clergymen.
 
If my child were a victim of abuse I would call the police before I called the Church, makes no difference what kind of a job the abuser has!

People who try to circumvent their civic and parental responsibility by throwing the ball to the Church or Synagogue baffle me. Talk to the cops, then let the cops talk to the clergymen.
That’s part of what Cardinal Napier actually said, not sure about in other countries, but in ours the police can only act on a charge laid by the one wronged, so in the case of a child victim of abuse, by the parent. The church can discipline the perpetrator if he is employed by them but the criminal charge has to come from the one abused, or in the case of a minor, the parent or guardian. (I know my husband used to talk of cases where a battered wife called the police for help, when they got to the apartment, even though it was obvious she had grounds, she refused to lay a charge and there was nothing the police could do.
 
The Archbishop is absolutely 100% correct in that pedophilia is not a crime.
:eek:
Thats not what law makers say. Thats not what atheists attacking the clergy say. Thats not what the victims say.
…It is an objectively disordered condition…in as much as there is no circumstance where it is not a grave disruption of the moral order for an adult to have sexual relations with pre-pubescent children.
What if all they want to do is masturbate while looking at a naked child? Is that disordered? Is that ‘‘sexual relations’’?
…Acting on that pedophilia is both a crime and a grave sin.
Please define ‘‘acting on’’.
Is adultery immoral if I only commit it in my heart?
What if I merely look at child pornography but dont ‘‘act on’’ the fantasy is that a sin?
Maybe Jesus was mistaken at Matthew 5:27-29 :confused:

I would be interested to see the scientific research which absolves child molesters of culpability by proving that they lack free will…moral agency. If child rapists can plead mental incapacity to stand trial as a legal defence, why cant criminals who rape adult victims also claim that they are afflicted with a disease they cant control?
 
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