Paedophilia 'not a criminal condition', says Cardinal Napier

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There really should be no need to break the seal of confession.

Simply mandate that the act of contrition/penance be to surrender to the secular authorities, ie the police. And remind the suspect that if there is no contrition, absolution isnt fulfilled. The person confessing must agree to accompany the priest to the police station.
 

If they act on it ONCE…It’s a CRIME! Let’s not be soft about it.​

But what I don’t advocate is this soft approach to it…has that helped any? Really? When we let people know that those thoughts are gravely disordered…that if you have them you HAVE to seek help immediately. Only then will we get the seriousness of this across. And then maybe get these statistics to drop.
I might be mistaken, but I do not recall anyone taking a soft approach to the fact that anyone who commits even one paedophilic act has committed a crime.

I thought the thread was about Cardinal Napier’s comments which were made in respect of priests abusing children, not paternal fathers abusing their children. But perhaps the conversation has moved from that specific topic to a more general discussion of paedophilia.

And again, I thought Cardinal Napier advocated punishment and treatment for all paedophiles; it seemed he was saying that those who had themselves been subjected to abuse would require different counselling.

And before you shoot me down in flames based on your experience; different people react in different ways to their experiences: some will continue the pattern, others will make every effort to act in a totally different way.
 
…And again, I thought Cardinal Napier advocated punishment and treatment for all paedophiles…
Why punish someone who has no free-will control over the ‘‘disease’’ they have been born with?
 
I might be mistaken, but I do not recall anyone taking a soft approach to the fact that anyone who commits even one paedophilic act has committed a crime.

I thought the thread was about Cardinal Napier’s comments which were made in respect of priests abusing children, not paternal fathers abusing their children. But perhaps the conversation has moved from that specific topic to a more general discussion of paedophilia.

And again, I thought Cardinal Napier advocated punishment and treatment for all paedophiles; it seemed he was saying that those who had themselves been subjected to abuse would require different counselling.

And before you shoot me down in flames based on your experience; different people react in different ways to their experiences: some will continue the pattern, others will make every effort to act in a totally different way.
What difference does it make whether it’s a priest abusing a child or their own father? Statistically speaking it is far more likely to be a relative.

From what I read of the Cardinal’s remarks is that he was saying that those who had been abused themselves were not criminally responsible in the same way as those who had not been abused. That is the part **I fundemently **disagree with. Both are criminal acts…and both require punishment. Is it any less traumatic for the victim? NO! Now…I do think that God will judge those two differently but there will still be a penalty to pay.

Just like me…I have to forgive my father…is it fair that I have to forgive something so grevious when other people have things far less grevious to forgive people for? Do you think God will let me off the hook? No. But I’m thankful that he is close to the brokenhearted.
 
I might be mistaken, but I do not recall anyone taking a soft approach to the fact that anyone who commits even one paedophilic act has committed a crime.

And again, I thought Cardinal Napier advocated punishment and treatment for all paedophiles; it seemed he was saying that those who had themselves been subjected to abuse would require different counselling.
"From my experience paedophilia is actually an illness. It is not a criminal condition, it is an illness." The cardinal mentioned two priests he knew who were abused as children and went on to become paedophiles. He told the BBC: "Don’t tell me that those people are criminally responsible like somebody who chooses to do something like that. "I don’t think you can really take the position and say that person deserves to be punished when he was himself damaged."

It doesn’t sound like he is advocating fair punishment to all paedophiles…
 
Really…because it certainly feels like an attack. Although only unless you have been a victim of this can you TRULY understand how damaging it is.
Without going into TMI for a public message board, I fully understand this.
But no, I would no advocate breaking the seal of confession. But I’m not advocating being all nambe pamby with these people. “Oh…it’s not your fault…you have a disease…” That type of thinking makes me sick.:mad: If they act on it ONCE…It’s a CRIME!
Agreed.

Going back to my very first post on this thread (#16):
Acting on that pedophilia is both a crime and a grave sin.

(snip)

Having said that, to repeat, Acting on that pedophilia is both a crime and a grave sin. Society must have the appropriate laws in place to severely sanction ones who would be tempted to act on their desire. Society must take action, in the sad event that it does happen…to restore the correct order and to protect future victims. It goes without saying that society should not be so “tolerant” as to allow such grave moral disorders to happen in the name of “tolerance.”
Let’s not be soft about it. It’s not “oh they slipped…” It’s they acted on it and destroyed a life. But most people can’t truly understand how it is to be…let’s say 3 years old and the man who is supposed to be raising you…and teaching you about life is violating you.
Yup.
And child porn just adds fuel to their fire…why is it even allowed? And regular porn that dresses up women as young kids… It starts a very dangerous fuel/fire.
Agreed. And viewing / possession of kiddie porn is a felony (at least in this country). No argument with that at all.

In fact, I don’t have an argument with the concept where you have a 20 or 30 something year old cop acting as a honey pot in order to snag one of these folks.
Are you say that God created men to desire young kids? And they have no control over it?
Hardly.
It’s hard…but yes I believe my abuser has the right to reconciliation with God in the confession–without that seal being broken. In fact it’s what I pray for him (and it’s about all I can pray for him).
But what I don’t advocate is this soft approach to it…has that helped any? Really? When we let people know that those thoughts are gravely disordered…that if you have them you HAVE to seek help immediately. Only then will we get the seriousness of this across. And then maybe get these statistics to drop.
The text of yours that I bolded is exactly the point I’m trying to, obliquely, get at.

The men in the pulpits need to love their flocks enough to boldly and unambiguously shout that ANY sexual behavior outside of a one man - one woman relationship are gravely disordered. Whether that is a couple of young adults living together, whether it is teenagers at the Catholic high school snogging behind the school between classes, whether it is Adam and Steve and their civil union, or whether it is this most disgusting crime.

While the side of hedonism has been pushing and pushing and pushing for decades, now, the ones who are supposedly the “good guys” have been too concerned with being “nice” – and now perversion of all sorts is socially acceptable (and those who support actual Christian sexual morals are seen as being “haters”)

Mark my words, if it doesn’t stop, pedophilia will be decriminalized. DSM-5 is going to lump pedophilia together with hebephilia (pedophilia is a desire for pre-pubescent kids while hebephilia is a desire for pubescent ones). By the time DSM-6 is released in a few years, it will be off the books, if this group has its way:
If a small group of Psychiatrists and other mental health professionals have their way at a conference this week, pedophiles themselves could play a role in removing pedophilia from the American Psychiatric Association’s bible of mental illnesses — the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), set to undergo a significant revision by 2013. Critics warn that their success could lead to the decriminalization of pedophilia.
The August 17 Baltimore conference is sponsored by B4U-ACT, a group of pro-pedophile mental health professionals and sympathetic activists. According to the conference brochure, the event will examine “ways in which minor-attracted persons [pedophiles] can be involved in the DSM 5 revision process” and how the popular perceptions of pedophiles can be reframed to encourage tolerance.

The trouble is that you’ve got to set the gospel standard for sex…to prevent the above from gaining any more of a foothold. But you have to do so in such a way that somebody would be willing to try to get help before it’s too late.

(BTW, much of what I wrote in post #16 is almost taken word-for-word from the catechism 2357-2359. I substituted one key word…)
 
"From my experience paedophilia is actually an illness. It is not a criminal condition, it is an illness." The cardinal mentioned two priests he knew who were abused as children and went on to become paedophiles. He told the BBC: "Don’t tell me that those people are criminally responsible like somebody who chooses to do something like that. “I don’t think you can really take the position and say that person deserves to be punished when he was himself damaged.”

It doesn’t sound like he is advocating fair punishment to all paedophiles…
It sounds as though he responded to a request for an interview about the election of the new Pope, during which the interviewer changed the topic to sex abuse scandals, and then proceeded to push and push the Cardinal into a position to “prove” something the interviewer wanted proved.

Here is a link I provided on a different thread which gives a more complete transcript of the interview (probably still edited, but provides a somewhat different context for the comment you extracted above).

marknelza.blogspot.it/2013/03/transcript-controversial-cardinal.html
 
It sounds as though he responded to a request for an interview about the election of the new Pope, during which the interviewer changed the topic to sex abuse scandals, and then proceeded to push and push the Cardinal into a position to “prove” something the interviewer wanted proved.

Here is a link I provided on a different thread which gives a more complete transcript of the interview (probably still edited, but provides a somewhat different context for the comment you extracted above).

marknelza.blogspot.it/2013/03/transcript-controversial-cardinal.html
What you provided was a 17 minute video…don’t have that kind of time.

So…are you saying that the Cardinal did not say that quote?
 
It is irrelevent whethe ror not someone was abused as a child. The crime is so great that there can never be a valid excuse for those people. Reasons matter not, the safety of children comes first and foremost. We should have no compassion for child sex offenders, they know it is wrong and they continue to do it.

The punishment dished out by God will be so great that only a complete embacile with absolute no control over their faculties will escape Hell for the abuse perpetrated on the little ones of Christ.

The only allowance we can make in these matters at all is the age of the child. For eg. clearly, taking advantage of a 6 year old is far worse than taking advantage of a 14 year old.

Anyone I meet who in any way trys to make excuses for child sex offenders they are immediately placed as suspect child sex offenders in my mind and further to that they have no place in me or my families life in future.
 
It is irrelevent whethe ror not someone was abused as a child. The crime is so great that there can never be a valid excuse for those people. Reasons matter not, the safety of children comes first and foremost. We should have no compassion for child sex offenders, they know it is wrong and they continue to do it.

The punishment dished out by God will be so great that only a complete embacile with absolute no control over their faculties will escape Hell for the abuse perpetrated on the little ones of Christ.

The only allowance we can make in these matters at all is the age of the child. For eg. clearly, taking advantage of a 6 year old is far worse than taking advantage of a 14 year old.

Anyone I meet who in any way trys to make excuses for child sex offenders they are immediately placed as suspect child sex offenders in my mind and further to that they have no place in me or my families life in future.
👍
 
What you provided was a 17 minute video…don’t have that kind of time.

So…are you saying that the Cardinal did not say that quote?
There is a transcript that will not take 17 minutes to read and you may find the quotes you are using in a different context.
 
Alcoholism is a disease, too, but we still prosecute alcoholics if they drive while drunk and kill someone. Same with those who abuse drugs. Same with those who violently abuse their wives. Same with those who are psychotic and shoot people. Many kinds of mental diseases can lead people to do things against the law, and they may need help other than imprisonment for life, but at the very least they need to be removed from those they may hurt. The same is true of predator priests.
 
Alcoholism is a disease, too, but we still prosecute alcoholics if they drive while drunk and kill someone. Same with those who abuse drugs. Same with those who violently abuse their wives. Same with those who are psychotic and shoot people. Many kinds of mental diseases can lead people to do things against the law, and they may need help other than imprisonment for life, but at the very least they need to be removed from those they may hurt. The same is true of predator -]priests/-].
Fixed it for you…doesn’t have to be just priests…predators in general. It’s far more likely to be a relative or close acquintance. The below statistics are from rainn.org (Rape and incest national network)

15% of sexual assault and rape victims are under age 12.3

•29% are age 12-17.
•44% are under age 18.3
•80% are under age 30.3
•12-34 are the highest risk years.
•Girls ages 16-19 are 4 times more likely than the general population to be victims of rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault.
7% of girls in grades 5-8 and 12% of girls in grades 9-12 said they had been sexually abused.4

•3% of boys grades 5-8 and 5% of boys in grades 9-12 said they had been sexually abused.
In 1995, local child protection service agencies identified 126,000 children who were victims of either substantiated or indicated sexual abuse.5

•Of these, 75% were girls.
•Nearly 30% of child victims were between the age of 4 and 7.
93% of juvenile sexual assault victims know their attacker.6

•34.2% of attackers were family members.
•58.7% were acquaintances.
•Only 7% of the perpetrators were strangers to the victim
 
There is a transcript that will not take 17 minutes to read and you may find the quotes you are using in a different context.
I read them…and sorry…it just makes it WORSE. I get that the good Cardinal was ambushed but he is absolutly wrong in his assesment. If you have been abused it matters not. Criminal activity is criminal activity and deserves punishment. It is highly likely that these people will offend again.

Now…on God’s side…his judgement…that is a different story I believe.
 
Fixed it for you…doesn’t have to be just priests…predators in general. It’s far more likely to be a relative or close acquintance. The below statistics are from rainn.org (Rape and incest national network)

15% of sexual assault and rape victims are under age 12.3

•29% are age 12-17.
•44% are under age 18.3
•80% are under age 30.3
•12-34 are the highest risk years.
•Girls ages 16-19 are 4 times more likely than the general population to be victims of rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault.
7% of girls in grades 5-8 and 12% of girls in grades 9-12 said they had been sexually abused.4

•3% of boys grades 5-8 and 5% of boys in grades 9-12 said they had been sexually abused.
In 1995, local child protection service agencies identified 126,000 children who were victims of either substantiated or indicated sexual abuse.5

•Of these, 75% were girls.
•Nearly 30% of child victims were between the age of 4 and 7.
93% of juvenile sexual assault victims know their attacker.6

•34.2% of attackers were family members.
•58.7% were acquaintances.
•Only 7% of the perpetrators were strangers to the victim
Exactly right, Annabelle Marie. A sexual predator doesn’t have to be a priest. It could be your doctor or you uncle or your teacher. These predators are often the folks we trust the most. Thank you for the correction.
 
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