Paganism

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AnAtheist:
Yes, I and millions of Jews fail to see that.

around 2000 BC:
“Papa, I believe in Jehova now.”
“What, that modern stuff without tradition? It is not even 50 years old!”
:rotfl:
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AnAtheist
Were you born a Jew? If so, In the synagouges or Jewish temples, IS THERE STILL A CURTAIN THAT SEPARATES THE HOLY OF HOLIEST AREA???

Do the Jews still receive new books, prophets that expand the Old Testament.

Zechariah, the father of John the Baptist, was he the only one in such a temple with a HOLY OF HOLIEST AREA, or WERE THERE OTHER PEOPLE LIKE HIM TOO IN OTHER TEMPLES WITH A HOLY OF HOLIEST AREA TOO??? I mean was there only one such temple or were there other temples too with a holy of holiest area.with a curtain.
 
**********Anatheist Said: neo-paganism is wrong, merely because it is new. There was a time, when Christianity was new, and that argument would have applied too.

The First Commandment of God clearly states that “You shall have no other God before Me”.

If you have no religion then all religions are equally false, and so is paganism, since it a form of pseudo-mystic religion
.If there are such things as gods and goddesses why have they not revealed themselves physically like Jesus Christ has?"

On your search for personal truth, found not within another’s revelation, but engraved on the spirit of the individual, why come to a Catholic forum could it be for insight or to dump on RCC, since you rightly see the worlds of both Jewish and Christian thought as your enemy…**********

.
Sara
 
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AnAtheist:
Yes, I and millions of Jews fail to see that.

around 2000 BC:
“Papa, I believe in Jehova now.”
“What, that modern stuff without tradition? It is not even 50 years old!”
:rotfl:
Click to expand...
Your lack of agreement/perception and that of millions of Jews that don’t recognize Christianity is meaningless. I can say this because of all of the Jewish Christian converts that did see the truth in Jesus. Your statement and mine only illustrate that there exists two sets of Jews; those that became Christian believers and those that have not.

You have failed to make a logical refutation of what has been said.
 
I don’t see Christianity in 80 AD to be “new”. I see it as the fulfillment of the promises made to the Jewish people. I see it’s practicioners remaining as faithful Jews while incorporating Gentiles. It was only after the destruction of the Temple that Christianity begins moving away from Judaism. Anyone who has studied the history of the Mass can easily point out its direct connections to Jewish custom and prayers. One of the biggest questions in those early days was circumcision.

Sorry my friend but from a strictly historical and anthropological view, you are dead wrong. The continuity is there. Where is the continuity in Jediism - a movie released in 1977?
 
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brotherhrolf:
Let’s just use Joseph’s example for what I am trying to get at. Everyone knows that the “force” is a concept invented by George Lucas. Lucas was heavily influenced by the anthropologist Joseph Cambell - all of whose books I have read. Now obviously there are those who claim Jedi as a religion just for grins. But what about those who believe? This is what I was getting at in my question. How can you believe something which you know, concretely, is the construct of a movie released in 1977 and is demonstrably not real? If it is demonstrably not real, how can there be faith in that? To me, that’s a huge disconnect and that is what I am having trouble trying to understand.
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I suspect one could do so the same way that cultures use myths, as metaphores and symbols. The idea of the force is not that unque, though perhaps the terminology is new.

Many people do not see their religion as literal truth, but as pointing to the truth, as representing divine/cosmic forces in a concrete manner that people can more easily grasp.

You can recognize the myth, but look past it to the concepts it illustrates.

For many religion is a tool to help them navigate this life (and the next if they believe that way) but not an actual truth. What matters is whether or not the tool is useful, not whether it looks, smells, tastes like the ultimate reality.

cheddar
 
I’ve heard many Catholics remark that neo-paganism bears no resemblence to ancient paganism. I would agree but would modify it to “neo-paganism bears no resemblence to ancient paganism…yet”. We are talking about a belief system that is essentially people attempting to appropriate powers that simply don’t belong to them. Right now people are content to dink around with Tarot cards, healing crystals, and many things that make the practitioners look cute and daffy rather than villainous. Of course there is no power in such things and so people, rather than abandon the foolish enterprise, think power must reside elsewhere and so it escalates. With the aboninations of abortion on one end of life and euthanasia (so much for “do what you will, harm no one.”) on the other end, it is only a matter a time before this vice will start to squeeze.

Scott
 
Joseph Bilodeau:
Something like this apparently has happened. Thousands of people reportedly have claimed Star Wars Jedi as their religion. While I expect many, probably most of these are not serious, some appear to be:

explorefaith.org/news/05_17_05.html
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I have also read that there are people who have begun a religion based on the Frank Herbert “Dune” books…
I would guess that there are others who have turned to the realm of science fiction for a “faith”.
I find all of this bewildering…Yet, was it not St Augustine who said that each of us has a God-shaped hole within? (Not a quote!) Perhaps these folks desperately search for something that they seem unable to recognize…
 
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Pax:
You have failed to make a logical refutation of what has been said.
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The point is, each religion starts at some point in time. Neo-paganism started roughly 50 years ago, some other forms in the 90s.
Of course there is no connection to ancient rites or priesthoods, because all that was lost in history. So they have to come up with new rites to worship the old gods, and thus they invent some new ones. The lacrimosa dies illa… did not exist in 20 AD, so someone had to come up with that too some day.

And no matter how much Christianity “fulfilled” Judaism, Judaism came up around 2000BC. Humanity is much older, so that religion including all its rites was invented well back then.
 
AnAtheist, Pagans

So what is AnAtheist’s explanation on how bread and wine WHEN CONSECRATED by a Basilian monk turned into Human Heart Muscle and Human Blood ???

Bread will decompose. Blood will decompose. Human heart muscle will decompose. The FBI and forensics have ways to check if something is embalmed. THIS BLOOD AND HUMAN HEART MUSCLE IS OVER 12 CENTURIES OLD!!!

Look at the medical medical microscopic photographs at the following website for yourself and tell us your explanation; and if the blood vessels you see look like bread and wine. ( By the way, the priest was from Prague, Germany, your own countryman!!!)

negrisud.it/en/abruzzo/miracolo_eucaristico/photorecognition.html

negrisud.it/en/abruzzo/miracolo_eucaristico/shortdesc.html
 
It is not the fact that it is new people object to.

Its the fact that its not true is what people object to.

The argument that it is new is not saying that what is new is inherently not true. It is its claims to be old that people object to. They object to these claims because if it claims to be old, but in reality is new, it is based on a falsehood, therefore it decieves people.

It is clear that neo-paganism is not closely related to ancient paganism in North-western Europe. It is obvious that those old pagan rites, ceremonies, and beliefs have not been preserved. This is proven through historical evidence, logic, and what the people practicing Neo-paganism themselves claim.

People have different reasons to follow sometimes incredibly absurd philosophies and religions. Most of the time it comes down to personal experiences, like ostracization, abuse, pride. Many times it attracts people seeking supernatural power. Many times it attracts people seeking acceptance. Everyone has their own reasons, and you will only discover them if you get to know the individual.
 
Nice post, however you left out someone who is and could have played a great influence , The Father of Lies - Satan

I dont feel all people who had bad lives excuse themselves from God because they blame God, I feel this brings most Christian people closer to Our Lord who (were) truly faithful and loved God from the beginning. Look at our Saints, they are fine example’s of the road to Holiness out of suffering.

Sara
 
I feel it does bear mentioning that not all forms of paganism are new constructions. Some do, in fact, have a continuity of belief stretching back thousands of years – sometimes further back than Judeo-Christianity.

Hinduism comes to mind, as do the beliefs of various American Indian and African tribal religions.

Not all pagans are new age types slapping their religion together out of a couple of books written 50 years ago. Sure, those types exist, but painting all pagans with that brush seems a bit overmuch.
 
Thanks Sam for your levelheaded post. It sometimes feels as if the truth is only welcome on the forums when we are discussion Catholicism.

Speaking unfairly or falsely about other faiths does not make Catholicism any more true.

If you know you have the truth, you have nothing to fear from being fair and just to others.

cheddar
 
As someone who recently scored 100% Neo-Pagan on the Belief-O-Matic Quiz, I think I can add my two-cents here. 😃 (I don’t identify myself as Neo-Pagan, however.)

One of the most powerful reasons for being a Neo-Pagan, according to many of my N-P friends, is a personal encounter with a Deity or Deities. Christians could understand this, I would think, given the emphasis in Christianity on developing a personal relationship with Jesus. It’s similar with the N-Ps. Whether the rituals are the same as those practiced 3000 years ago is irrelevant, and diverts from the real issue: the power of the Deity-devotee relationship that is the core of N-P life. The Deity has remained the same, for all these many years. The Deity is still alive, accessible, and able to be in relationship.

I personally have no problem with N-Ps claiming to practice a version of the pre-Christian religions of Western Europe. If Christianity were to disappear for a thousand years, and then someone were to receive a vision of Jesus telling her to re-initiate the Christian path, I would consider what they would re-initiate to be a form of Christianity…perhaps “Neo-Christianity,” but Christianity nonetheless, because the focus of worship is Christ. Likewise, if someone worships Isis (otherwise known as Auset), I wouldn’t call that ancient Egyptian Auset veneration, but it would be Ausetian nonetheless.
 
I am firmly Catholic but coming from a “mixed” marriage (Father was Protestant, Mother Catholic) in an age when such marriages had to get dispensation from the archbishop, I don’t seek to condemn anyone. Can you imagine growing up and being told that your father was condemned to hell? Yes, yes before everyone starts throwing things at me, this was pre-VII.

I also hold an advanced degree in anthropology. I approach the question with the same dispassion I would if I were writing a paper. I seek understanding. I have sincere questions. Yes, I am perfectly aware that the “force” has been described elsewhere - “chi” is the first thing that comes to mind. But the “force” as being generated by mitichlorians (sp) which are pure construct? How can one have a revelation or an encounter with the “divine” from a pure construct? Are you saying that we humans have the capability to bring “gods” into the world simply by belief?
If so, what does that imply for all of humanity?
 
Atheists enjoy talking with you about things you cannot see or check. Why don’t you all corral them into miracles that they can see with their own 2 eyes, like this Miracle of Lanciano???

What’s causing bread to turn into Human Flesh, INTO HUMAN VEINS, INTO HUMAN ARTERIES??? What/WHO is preventing This Human Heart Muscle, Veins, Arteries, Blood from decomposing???
 
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brotherhrolf:
How can one have a revelation or an encounter with the “divine” from a pure construct? Are you saying that we humans have the capability to bring “gods” into the world simply by belief?
If so, what does that imply for all of humanity?
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I am of the opinion that an encounter with the “divine” is, by definition, not a result of purely human construction.

But then the question becomes, “Are the N-Ps experiencing something divine?” Well, not necessarily, but I do believe that many of them are experiencing something “real”, something that their minds are not simply creating. Whether that something is “divine,” that’s another question.

I do believe that non-Christians can encounter the divine, so why not N-Ps?
 
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AnAtheist:
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And no matter how much Christianity “fulfilled” Judaism, Judaism came up around 2000BC. Humanity is much older, so that religion including all its rites was invented well back then.
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You have made an assumption that Judaism and Christianity were invented. To suggest that they are merely human constructs is to ignore a tremendous amount of data that indicates otherwise.
 
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Pax:
You have made an assumption that Judaism and Christianity were invented. To suggest that they are merely human constructs is to ignore a tremendous amount of data that indicates otherwise.
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Like the Earth is really a flat rectangle with a canopy of water above it?
Or like Herodes has not been dead for 10 years when Quirinius started the census?
Or like insects have four legs?
 
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