Paid/Unpaid Cantors

[quilisma]

Lol, funny this “expert liturgist” they just got abhors Latin, would probably prefer someone with an average voice and says it’s mainly the eye contact and body language that’s important for the job, almost disregarding the voice itself.

Lol, I can’t help picturing this liturgist’s face if you were to get up there and do the body language, eye contact, written rhythm, etc. exactly the way the liturgist wants it… except spoken instead of sung. Not that I’m *suggesting *such a thing, mind you… hee hee…

 

[mlz]

I did take several courses in music and was happy to receive an A for my first and only jury- the professor said (after I had one year as a Cantor-he would have given me an A+, if not for the music in front of me). I chuckled, I was not a performer, but a singer for the LORD. I was unpaid in my own parish. After becoming ‘officially’ a Cantor. trained by the office of music in our very large Diocese. My training took 3 years, twice a year we attended evening classes (4hrs each) for 6 weeks, in addition to being scrutinized by our parish music director on a regular basis. For many years had 3 vocal instructors: one from Vienna, one from Julliard School of Music (who had a command performance for the Queen of England), and senior music students from a well known music university in NY.
All this above information is not to ‘elevate’ me or my singing or to obtain praise, as many before and after me have had much more education than I ever did and it was just never enough for my LORD as I had chosen to sing for the LORD, only. I went to the above classes and many, many conventions, some with nursing baby in tow. I even took speech therapy so my diction would be as perfect as it could be for the LORD. It helped remove my accent and some other minor noticeable imperfections. I did not want to distract anyone from prayer, even early in my career.
Considering being paid never entered my mind until many, many years later when my circumstances changed. The LORD Pulled me through that tough time too. My joy, other than my children, was when I proclaimed the Psalm on Sunday and led song during daily Eucharist, with the Pastor’s permission. As the years passed, I became deeper in love with my LORD and that aforementioned position switched. My life as a cantor has truly been Blessed,only because the LORD was with me. HIS IS the MASTER Plan.
It is very difficult for me, with my history of training, that so called cantors, some of whom get paid a good penny, some voices being VERY well trained, appear to sing HIS Word in sleeveless, short low cut dresses are totally inappropriate on the altar of the LORD. Unfortunately/fortunately for me, I can tell when they have not had special cantor training and I find it quite distracting to my prayer (still working on this). Some sing for their own glory and never praising the LORD for that gift of song. The beautiful voice is there, but not the necessarily love for the LORD (they will get there) nor the education as a certified cantor training which points out many particular instances when and when not to sing, how to stand, and most important, reverence before the exposed BLESSED SACRAMENT. I pray daily for them as their director has missed some fine points of cantoring.
There was a point when I was paid, but almost all, except for gas, went back into my perfecting the much needed continuing education that any cantor needs to ‘perfect their craft’. There is always more to learn. Still, at 68 and with 35 years of being a cantor, I do not think many of today’s cantors, who are actually ‘song leaders’ instead, have that necessary cantor training. It’s, proclaiming the WORD, is not something to do just because one has a good voice (and unfortunately, some don’t).
GOD Bless us all and Take us through these challenging times. hugs…jo

Thank you for your service to our Lord in music as you seem to fully understand the purpose He has blessed you with May our Lord also bless all those who take this responsibility in love of Him and others! You really “get it”!

My thanks and love in Christ,
mlz

 

[ElisabethM]

1. Not being paid when others in the same position are is simply unjust. In charity, call those responsible to correct the injustice.
2. Offering music at Mass is not performing. A good cantor does not need a good singing voice, and I’d argue it may be best not to have a good singing voice so there’s less danger of drawing attention to oneself. What a good cantor needs is the ability to sing sacred music in a way that helps the congregation pray better–the focus is always on our Lord, not on any individuals. (Same applies to lectors.)
3. It is an extremely rare parish that cannot pay for musicians. Many CHOOSE not to pay, but not because they can’t afford it. They CHOOSE to spend their money on other things, that’s all. It’s all about priorities and precious few Catholic parishes have an interest in sacred music because there is more attention given to other things (social ministry, youth programs, office staff, facilities, etc) than the Holy Mass. There is a direct proportion between the focus on the Mass as the parish’s raison d’etre and the sacred music of the parish.

em

 

[1ke]

1. It is an extremely rare parish that cannot pay for musicians. Many CHOOSE not to pay, but not because they can’t afford it.

I would invite you to rural America.

 

[ElisabethM]

I would invite you to rural America.

I live in rural America, very rural. I am an unpaid cantor at our parish having been dismissed from position as choir director last summer when the pastor and parish council decided they didn’t want to pay for a choir director any longer and did away with the choir. I volunteered to continue as cantor because I involve my two teens and am teaching them about sacred music and to develop skills as cantors. My son is the organist and receives a modest stipend for each Mass (though much less than he should be paid). We do offer our music as a gift and I am thankful for the opportunity for our family which is why I volunteered to continue without pay.

But our parish could easily afford to pay a choir director; they’ve decided they’d rather spend their money on other things. Our parish does pay a “music minister” to play the guitar for LifeTeen. The parish has enough money to pay not only a full-time youth director, but for a part-time assistant youth director as well. The parish has enough money to pay for two full-time secretaries. The parish found enough money to remodel all the office areas this year.

As Bl Theresa of Calcutta said in a commencement speech she delivered at Harvard, “And I’m sure you will ask me, where is there hunger in our country? Yes, there is hunger; maybe not hunger for a piece of bread, but there is a terrible for love.”

I have been in many parishes throughout our rural area. There is not one consisting of truly impoverished people that couldn’t choose to pay for promoting sacred music if it were important to them. But what I do see is a poverty of love for the Holy Eucharist when a parish chooses everything else over sacred music for the Holy Mass.

I have been in places in Africa that have so much less money than any place I’ve seen here, but have so much more love for God that shows in extreme generosity regarding worship. What do you love the most? That tells it all.

em

 

[Sarabande]

1. Offering music at Mass is not performing. A good cantor does not need a good singing voice, and I’d argue it may be best not to have a good singing voice so there’s less danger of drawing attention to oneself. What a good cantor needs is the ability to sing sacred music in a way that helps the congregation pray better–the focus is always on our Lord, not on any individuals. (Same applies to lectors.)

As someone who tends to be distracted by cantors with bad singing voices and poor musicianship, I would have to disagree. I do agree with you that a good cantor does need to be able to sing sacred music that would help the congregation pray better. It should enhance the mass - not detract from it. When someone with a poor singing voice is up there, it makes me wish that the music would just end and then I concentrate on how poor the voice is and how poor his/her musicianship is. It’s something I work at when I’m at mass. It takes away from praying at mass. At the very least, a decent singing voice is needed, a voice that can sing in key, as well as decent musicianship.

I personally prefer trained voices with decent musicianship, because I then don’t focus on the voice, since it is like any other well-played instrument. It leaves me to focus on the way the words and the music are melded together to bring about the utmost in prayer through music and singing the mass. Too often I hear from people how bad or mediocre their cantors are and how much it takes them away from the mass. I do think if we are to promote sacred music, we should have good musicians who have pretty much mastered at least their level of playing, whether the voice, organ or other instrument. Numerous times I have been told how if they had better cantors chant, they wouldn’t mind having chant at their masses - which is supposed to be the ultimate in sacred music. Have a cantor who can’t chant or is unable to hold a tune without the organ or piano playing underneath of them for chant, it can be a very painful experience for the congregant and would ruin the opportunity of introducing chant back into a parish.

That all said, I do think how we present our gifts is important so as not to bring undue attention to oneself. Throughout the years working both as a volunteer and professional, I’ve met some cantors (especially volunteers) who treated their position as an outlet to perform rather to aid in prayer. I remember music directors lamenting to me about how a couple of their volunteer cantors got angry with them when they were told not to overpower the congregation, to step back from the microphone, reminding them that it wasn’t a place to act as a soloist. I think as little facial expression and movement is important as a cantor, because the cantor should think of her/himself as an additional instrument, like an organ or piano serving to support the congregation in congregational singing or to aid in the prayer when singing the psalm, chanting, etc. I attended a cantor workshop once and for that particular workshop, I thought what they wanted us to do was bringing too much attention to us. I tend to be more on the traditional side of things and would actually prefer it if the cantor is only up in the sanctuary for the Responsorial psalm and gospel acclamation and then up in the choir loft for the hymns and chants and polyphonic works with the choir. Perhaps some people would disagree with me on that, but I do think what I do works and have been thanked for "not making a “spectacle of myself”, for not treating the congregation like a “bunch of idiots” when it came to them coming in to sing, for not acting like an “air traffic controller” and for “praying through the music” and “understanding the reason for being a cantor”.

1. It is an extremely rare parish that cannot pay for musicians. Many CHOOSE not to pay, but not because they can’t afford it. They CHOOSE to spend their money on other things, that’s all. It’s all about priorities and precious few Catholic parishes have an interest in sacred music because there is more attention given to other things (social ministry, youth programs, office staff, facilities, etc) than the Holy Mass. There is a direct proportion between the focus on the Mass as the parish’s raison d’etre and the sacred music of the parish.

em

I know for many parishes down my way, they could actually pay their cantors, but choose not to. Then there are dying parishes, especially in certain parts of the city where I know they would have a difficult time doing it. I do think part of the problem, too, is that some places don’t know how to budget well. I’ve spoken to a couple priests about this and they pretty much agreed that one of the things they should teach in seminary is business planning and running a parish.

I agree with you in regards to priority. The parishes where I do work and they pay all of their musicians, the congregation and the pastors have made sacred music a priority at mass. They feel it is important for mass, so they put the money out for it. They’ve done things to raise money specifically for the music program so that they don’t have to take out of the collection. That’s part of good business planning. You can do that for pretty much everything, not just music. If you make it a priority, you find a way to get the budget for it.

God bless you for your gifts and offerings to your parish through music.

 

[ElisabethM]

As someone who tends to be distracted by cantors with bad singing voices and poor musicianship, I would have to disagree.

I didn’t say the cantor should have a poor singing voice, just one that doesn’t draw attention to itself. The comments one should hear regarding the cantor’s singing should be: “It helped me pray better”, not “Oh, she has such a beautiful voice! I love to come to Mass just to hear her sing”, or on the negative side, as mentioned, to be a distraction by poor singing.

The quality of the voice really has nothing to do with whether or not one can serve well as a cantor, as long as the right notes can be sung clearly. The choir director before me did not have what you would call a beautiful singing voice at all, but she was dead-on with musicianship. Then someone joined the choir who applied for the choir director position–she had a drop-dead gorgeous singing voice and lots of musical talent. But she was a solo act and never blended in with the choir. Her cantoring was beautiful as singing, but distracting from prayer.

That’s the distinction I was thinking of.

em

 

[Sarabande]

I didn’t say the cantor should have a poor singing voice, just one that doesn’t draw attention to itself. The comments one should hear regarding the cantor’s singing should be: “It helped me pray better”, not “Oh, she has such a beautiful voice! I love to come to Mass just to hear her sing”, or on the negative side, as mentioned, to be a distraction by poor singing.

The quality of the voice really has nothing to do with whether or not one can serve well as a cantor, as long as the right notes can be sung clearly. The choir director before me did not have what you would call a beautiful singing voice at all, but she was dead-on with musicianship. Then someone joined the choir who applied for the choir director position–she had a drop-dead gorgeous singing voice and lots of musical talent. But she was a solo act and never blended in with the choir. Her cantoring was beautiful as singing, but distracting from prayer.

That’s the distinction I was thinking of.

em

My misunderstanding. Thank you for clarifying.

When I think of a “good singing voice”, I think of someone whose voice is not particularly beautiful, nor particularly inspiring for prayer, but decent enough to sing the right notes and rhythms and to proclaim the Gospel. It could be pretty or lovely and doesn’t necessarily have to be highly trained. It definitely doesn’t offend. That’s not to say a “good singing voice” can’t help with prayer. If that cantor proclaims the Word with good diction so that the listener can concentrate on the melding of the prayerful words and music, then that is fine as well. The same with beautiful voices. I know for myself and hearing other people talk about cantors with beautiful voices, if they do it correctly, a beautiful voice won’t distract. Anything less than “good” (ie. average/mediocre or poor singing) can be, to me, very distracting.

The ultimate in musical prayer, in my opinion, is someone with a “drop-dead” singing voice, EXCEPT when the person doesn’t know how to cantor or is there only for his/her own glory. (The latter you can’t really tell unless you know that person.) Ideally, that would be someone who is serious about prayer through music and the importance of proclaiming the Word. It brings one to a higher level of prayer (aside from receiving the Eucharist, of course), just like any other excellent instrumentalist. Decent musicianship and a decent/good voice is fine as well, but excellence and beauty is sometimes or often times needed for a deeper spiritual connection with prayer through the Words and music, in my personal opinion. I never heard the woman you mentioned, nor know her, so I don’t know how she presented herself as a cantor. I know, for me, if she did everything right and presented the ideal, then I would not have been distracted. The excellence in her instrument would have helped me to concentrate on the prayer in a deeper, more profound way. Whereas, someone who was decent/good would have sufficed to a certain level, but not as profoundly. That would be the case for any instrument. Played well gets the job done, but doesn’t inspire a deeper kind of prayer.

And I agree, the best, humbling comments one can make for a cantor is how much his/her singing helped them to pray better. Even though I try to keep away from people after mass, I run into people on the street during the week or outside of the church and I know those comments help me know I’m doing it right when I hear that kind of feedback. It keeps spiritual perspective and continues to remind me that I’m doing it for God.

My non-Catholic colleagues don’t understand why I still work at Catholic churches when I can get better pay at a Protestant church. I know that working for the Church has been a calling from God. Yes, I get paid (which further helps with my training or to help make ends meet with our bills), but I know from feedback by the pastors, priests and congregation, I am there to help with prayer and service to God and to His people.

Of course, this is all opinion. Even if there are people who agree with me, I know there will be people who don’t. It’s still interesting to discuss and exchange ideas and opinions on this subject, though.

 

[clem456]

In our parish the director of worship is paid. This is his job, he has a family to support.
The cantors are not paid. They have regular jobs. It’s a ministry.

A liturgy or worship director should be paid well. Our guy can do it all. He has a college degree in music and training in theology, is very knowledgeable in scripture and liturgy, can sing, play organ and piano, knows ancient music as well as modern. Does weddings, funerals, school Masses etc…he makes about 45K/year (it’s not enough IMO)

 

[Ophelia23]

 

[Sarabande]

In our parish the director of worship is paid. This is his job, he has a family to support.
The cantors are not paid. They have regular jobs. It’s a ministry.

A liturgy or worship director should be paid well. Our guy can do it all. He has a college degree in music and training in theology, is very knowledgeable in scripture and liturgy, can sing, play organ and piano, knows ancient music as well as modern. Does weddings, funerals, school Masses etc…he makes about 45K/year (it’s not enough IMO)

Agreed. Although people in my area would be knocking down the doors if they saw a 45K/year Catholic music director position at a regular suburban parish. It’s interesting that they don’t consider the music director position as a ministry position. At all the places where I’ve worked, they’ve called it a music ministry position.

My regular job is music. What I make as a cantor helps to make ends meet. At the parishes where I work, the cantors are scheduled for the entire weekend - Saturday and Sunday - just like an organist, music director or other instrumentalist who are usually paid. I do weddings, funerals, special masses, school masses, help wedding couples and families of the deceased plan their liturgies, either by meeting with them in person, or over the phone for a few hours or via email. The music director at one of the parishes where I work does not do it, so it’s my responsibility. It is also expected of me to know and understand ancient music, know how to chant correctly, as well as to know the various styles of singing for different periods of sacred music - just like an organist, pianist, music director, etc. is required for their instrument. In order to keep up my instrument, just like all other instrumentalists, I put in numerous hours of practice, study and training during the week. I’ve attended music conservatory as well as almost my entire life of private training, just like other instrumentalists and music directors.

Now, I understand that many parishes, especially ones where they don’t pay their cantors, the cantor’s position and required knowledge of music is not really needed. It’s not a priority. Not many parishes do chant, sing polyphony, motets or other sacred works requiring that level of musicianship and ability. Four hymns to lead, a psalm, gospel acclamation and mass parts and you’re pretty much done. In those situations, depending on the dynamic of parish, you sometimes really don’t even need a cantor except for the psalm and gospel acclamation. Most of the time, the singers have had little to no musical or vocal training. You don’t even have to practice and train for hours during the week. I can understand the argument of not paying a cantor in those situations.

 

[clem456]

You do a lot!
Our music/liturgy director is considered a ministry, he just doesn’t do it for free. He has to support a family. This job in our parish is full time plus.
I will try to remember his responsibilities.
Plan the music for all the Masses, coordinating them with the readings.
Finding music, evaluating it, ordering it, paying for it.
Playing for those Masses, 5 on the weekends, plus all the 9am Masses during the week, plus feasts/holy days, Anything that happens in our Church, he plans it at the direction of the pastor.
Rehearsing 3 different choirs/ensembles once a week PLUS cantors plus other instrumentalists.
Rehearsing with priests and deacons for things like the Exultet and sung Mass parts.
Whenever another ministry group like the pastoral staff has a meeting for discernment or spiritual advancement, he plans it and finds some readings and music.
Funerals, weddings, baptisms, first communions and confirmation.
It’s just and endless list. It’s way more than 40 hours.
And oh yeah we have a k-12 school that he helps with if it involves something liturgical.

And it’s true, you get what you pay for, or maybe more accurately in a Church setting where not everyone is paid, you get what you nourish.
The musical setting is awesome at all but one of our Masses (long story). It’s the difference between people yawning and wishing the screeching would stop, and bringing people literally to tears, and moving people to enter RCIA because the music at Christmas Eve lifted them right out of the pew (this actually happened to a friend of mine, the music at Christmas Eve washed over him and brought him to a decision point right there in the pew).

Unfortunately, he has spent a lot of time in the past year or two defending the Church’s wishes and his own proven competence. Defending from lay people who misinterpret their own competence and power using Church documents which they misinterpret.
He’s underpaid.

Agreed. Although people in my area would be knocking down the doors if they saw a 45K/year Catholic music director position at a regular suburban parish. It’s interesting that they don’t consider the music director position as a ministry position. At all the places where I’ve worked, they’ve called it a music ministry position.

My regular job is music. What I make as a cantor helps to make ends meet. At the parishes where I work, the cantors are scheduled for the entire weekend - Saturday and Sunday - just like an organist, music director or other instrumentalist who are usually paid. I do weddings, funerals, special masses, school masses, help wedding couples and families of the deceased plan their liturgies, either by meeting with them in person, or over the phone for a few hours or via email. The music director at one of the parishes where I work does not do it, so it’s my responsibility. It is also expected of me to know and understand ancient music, know how to chant correctly, as well as to know the various styles of singing for different periods of sacred music - just like an organist, pianist, music director, etc. is required for their instrument. In order to keep up my instrument, just like all other instrumentalists, I put in numerous hours of practice, study and training during the week. I’ve attended music conservatory as well as almost my entire life of private training, just like other instrumentalists and music directors.

Now, I understand that many parishes, especially ones where they don’t pay their cantors, the cantor’s position and required knowledge of music is not really needed. It’s not a priority. Not many parishes do chant, sing polyphony, motets or other sacred works requiring that level of musicianship and ability. Four hymns to lead, a psalm, gospel acclamation and mass parts and you’re pretty much done. In those situations, depending on the dynamic of parish, you sometimes really don’t even need a cantor except for the psalm and gospel acclamation. Most of the time, the singers have had little to no musical or vocal training. You don’t even have to practice and train for hours during the week. I can understand the argument of not paying a cantor in those situations.

 

[Sarabande]

You do a lot!
Our music/liturgy director is considered a ministry, he just doesn’t do it for free. He has to support a family. This job in our parish is full time plus.
I will try to remember his responsibilities.
Plan the music for all the Masses, coordinating them with the readings.
Finding music, evaluating it, ordering it, paying for it.
Playing for those Masses, 5 on the weekends, plus all the 9am Masses during the week, plus feasts/holy days, Anything that happens in our Church, he plans it at the direction of the pastor.
Rehearsing 3 different choirs/ensembles once a week PLUS cantors plus other instrumentalists.
Rehearsing with priests and deacons for things like the Exultet and sung Mass parts.
Whenever another ministry group like the pastoral staff has a meeting for discernment or spiritual advancement, he plans it and finds some readings and music.
Funerals, weddings, baptisms, first communions and confirmation.
It’s just and endless list. It’s way more than 40 hours.
And oh yeah we have a k-12 school that he helps with if it involves something liturgical.

And it’s true, you get what you pay for, or maybe more accurately in a Church setting where not everyone is paid, you get what you nourish.
The musical setting is awesome at all but one of our Masses (long story). It’s the difference between people yawning and wishing the screeching would stop, and bringing people literally to tears, and moving people to enter RCIA because the music at Christmas Eve lifted them right out of the pew (this actually happened to a friend of mine, the music at Christmas Eve washed over him and brought him to a decision point right there in the pew).

Unfortunately, he has spent a lot of time in the past year or two defending the Church’s wishes and his own proven competence. Defending from lay people who misinterpret their own competence and power using Church documents which they misinterpret.
He’s underpaid.

Yes, I don’t think many people know what kind of work a music director has to do. They tend to think that all they do is show up on a Sunday and that’s about it. All the good that comes out just miraculously happens at the mass without any work. I hear it all the time. It can be a huge responsibility and I think that it does require good compensation. Get a good music director and you have the potential of getting a decent volunteer choir. I know a previous music director of mine was able to get a completely volunteer choir chant and sing polyphony among other kinds of difficult music. They did it very well for a volunteer choir. The preparation and teaching everything by rote to most of the choir takes much more time and commitment, but even at that parish, you still had people make comments of how easy of a job being a music director was.

I was a music director for a children’s choir and handbell choir for a time. It didn’t entail the amount of work that a full-time music director has, but it was hard work. I currently help prepare a school children’s choir for their school masses and other special events. I’m very fortunate getting affiliated with this Catholic school as they value sacred music and sacred arts and compensate accordingly. The pressure and stress you have to create “results” are there, but it is so rewarding being with the kids and seeing them progress.

In regards to my positions as a professional cantor, I definitely do not expect a full-time salary, despite the work I put into it. I consider it part-time work. I do miss being with my family on the weekends. It’s the downside of working in music ministry, so I’ve cut back a little to try to have at least one weekend off a month and be able to attend mass as a family. I know for me that working in music ministry has been a calling, but it is a sacrifice from family. For many of my church musician colleagues this is also the case and something we all lament about, especially during the holidays. The good thing is that I feel I am being a role model to my children at how important I believe the mass is for us and all of the aspects that go into the mass.