Painful touch!

[Tsudeaux_Gnymm]

He has been offered 2 jobs… But he feels they are beneath his talent/skill level.

Ridiculous. The opportunity he wants may well turn him down because of the long gap in employment. I’d hate to see how he’d react to that.

Of course, we are only hearing one side, but it seems a difficult situation, regardless.

 

[missme22]

I do need boundaries. That is for sure. And I’ve talked with the therapist about that.

The hardest part of leaving … For me… Is feeling like everything will fall apart. I was really screwed up as a child. And I have been doing a very good job of using my career and my son to avoid the drama. I have very little else in life…
But, you are right. You are only hearing one side of the story. When I insisted that my husband attend couples therapy… For that very reason… I was stunned to see that all of these things that bothered me… Painful Tickling… Him telling me I look fat when I’m trying something on in the store…even the pushing of my son… He couldn’t remember any of it! It wasn’t that he was denying it … It was that they never even registered on his radar. It was shocking to me. He wasn’t worried about any of it. Even after I had told him!

As for the job situation… I feel bad for him. He was working at a great place and thriving. But i was transferred and got a big paycut. I offered my husband to stay at his position (living in different states) until he found a great job in our new place. He chose to just quit without a Job. He filed unemployment (which you can’t get unless you are fired) but he has appealed that twice now. He believes he DESERVES unemployment benefits.

Anyway the jobs that were offered paid well but they involve working overnights. He says he can’t handle that shift. So he delayed in responding to the offer so long…they hired someone else. Then he told me he didn’t turn it down… They just hired someone else.

 

[severus68]

I do need boundaries. That is for sure. And I’ve talked with the therapist about that.

The hardest part of leaving … For me… Is feeling like everything will fall apart. I was really screwed up as a child. And I have been doing a very good job of using my career and my son to avoid the drama. I have very little else in life…
But, you are right. You are only hearing one side of the story. When I insisted that my husband attend couples therapy… For that very reason… I was stunned to see that all of these things that bothered me… Painful Tickling… Him telling me I look fat when I’m trying something on in the store…even the pushing of my son… He couldn’t remember any of it! It wasn’t that he was denying it … It was that they never even registered on his radar. It was shocking to me. He wasn’t worried about any of it. Even after I had told him!

As for the job situation… I feel bad for him. He was working at a great place and thriving. But i was transferred and got a big paycut. I offered my husband to stay at his position (living in different states) until he found a great job in our new place. He chose to just quit without a Job. He filed unemployment (which you can’t get unless you are fired) but he has appealed that twice now. He believes he DESERVES unemployment benefits.

Anyway the jobs that were offered paid well but they involve working overnights. He says he can’t handle that shift. So he delayed in responding to the offer so long…they hired someone else. Then he told me he didn’t turn it down… They just hired someone else.

The fact that he does nott even acknowledge that he did wrong by pushing a 4 year old hard etc says a lot and to me makes him more unpredictable. But why are you asking advice from this forum when you have an expert advising you? You need to be honest with your therapist and listen to her advice.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Don’t be shocked about your husband’s nonchalant attitude. To him, you and his son are merely props, or cardboard cut-outs, that he can use as he wishes. Any of his actions toward you are totally justified in his mind, thus, are not worth any consideration. He only gets angry when the props start to question him. But he can do as he wishes with you since you are not real to him. He needs you for his supply, that’s all.

He would never have stayed behind without you. He needs you. Too bad, at that point you might have been free of him.

 

[EasterJoy]

… I disregarded it as “an accident” as he told me it was… But my gut told me otherwise. This all unfolded about a year ago and I demanded therapy for both of us. He acted as if I made a big deal over nothing. My son (4) stepped on his foot and he shoved him backwards. The way he hit the wall behind him… Knocked the wind out of my son and he had trouble breathing. My husband said it was just an accidental response to his own pain of his foot being stepped on…

The only issues we are having these days (physically) are with his massage on me… Which I won’t let happen again AND when he tickles my son (or me) he squeezes too hard. I always have to run in and intervene when he’s ticking him because my son will scream (through laughter) ow! Ow! And I KNOW what he’s going through. He grabs his thigh and squeezes the muscles to the point of leaving red marks. But my crazy son will go back 20 minutes later and ask for more! Drives me crazy. But DH just tells me it is horseplay and I need to settle down. But… I know how it feels! He kneads the muscle in the thigh to the point it hurts!

Again… If he read this… He’d just roll his eyes and say “this again?”. He thinks I’m a big overreacter. But I don’t think tickling should ever hurt!

Has your therapist told you about the concept of gaslighting? This is an introduction:
psychologytoday.com/blog/power-in-relationships/200905/are-you-being-gaslighted

Here’s an excerpt:
How do you know if you are being gaslighted?

If any of the following warning signs ring true, you may be dancing the Gaslight Tango. Take care of yourself by taking another look at your relationship, talking to a trusted friend; and, begin to think about changing the dynamic of your relationship . Here are the signs:

1. You are constantly second-guessing yourself
2. You ask yourself, “Am I too sensitive?” a dozen times a day.
3. You often feel confused and even crazy at work.
4. You’re always apologizing to your mother, father, boyfriend, boss.
5. You can’t understand why, with so many apparently good things in your life, you aren’t happier.
6. You frequently make excuses for your partner’s behavior to friends and family.
7. You find yourself withholding information from friends and family so you don’t have to explain or make excuses.
8. You know something is terribly wrong, but you can never quite express what it is, even to yourself.
9. You start lying to avoid the put downs and reality twists.
10. You have trouble making simple decisions.
11. You have the sense that you used to be a very different person - more confident, more fun-loving, more relaxed.
12. You feel hopeless and joyless.
13. You feel as though you can’t do anything right.
14. You wonder if you are a “good enough” girlfriend/ wife/employee/ friend; daughter.
15. You find yourself withholding information from friends and family so you don’t have to explain or make excuses.

If any of that rings true with you, take the trouble to learn more about gaslighting. Resolve to have the courage to be honest and act on the truth. If your husband is a gaslighter, you probably do need to get out immediately, just as your therapist says. Consult with a priest, if you need to, in order to confirm your therapist’s opinion, but don’t delay because you are afraid you’re going to have to act. Stay because you’ve done your homework and decided that you ought to stay, not because you were afraid to learn that you ought to go.

Your child’s well-being, not to mention your own, depends on getting to the truth and acting on it and I don’t mean just the physical stuff. I mean that growing up in the same house with this man and his habit of gaslighting his responsibility away when he harms you and your son could permanently skew your child’s ability to discern what is and is not healthy or acceptable in an intimate relationship. It happened to you, and you’ve had to work hard to overcome that damage. Don’t let the same thing happen to your child. Either find a way to make your home both psychologically and physically safe or get your child out of it.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Narcissists do this as a matter of course. The unsubtle ones just come right out and tell you that you are stupid, insane, crazy, a horrible person, etc.

 

[missme22]

Gas lighting has never been mentioned to me, but it does ring true! Absolutely. But, he is so subtle… It’s hard for me to even believe that any of this is done on purpose. He is often rude to the people I need him to be nice to (my boss) but will talk to the neighbor down the street for 30 minutes! He makes me second guess him and myself ALL the time.

Thank you for telling me about this!

Has your therapist told you about the concept of gaslighting? This is an introduction:
psychologytoday.com/blog/power-in-relationships/200905/are-you-being-gaslighted

Here’s an excerpt:
How do you know if you are being gaslighted?

If any of the following warning signs ring true, you may be dancing the Gaslight Tango. Take care of yourself by taking another look at your relationship, talking to a trusted friend; and, begin to think about changing the dynamic of your relationship . Here are the signs:

1. You are constantly second-guessing yourself
2. You ask yourself, “Am I too sensitive?” a dozen times a day.
3. You often feel confused and even crazy at work.
4. You’re always apologizing to your mother, father, boyfriend, boss.
5. You can’t understand why, with so many apparently good things in your life, you aren’t happier.
6. You frequently make excuses for your partner’s behavior to friends and family.
7. You find yourself withholding information from friends and family so you don’t have to explain or make excuses.
8. You know something is terribly wrong, but you can never quite express what it is, even to yourself.
9. You start lying to avoid the put downs and reality twists.
10. You have trouble making simple decisions.
11. You have the sense that you used to be a very different person - more confident, more fun-loving, more relaxed.
12. You feel hopeless and joyless.
13. You feel as though you can’t do anything right.
14. You wonder if you are a “good enough” girlfriend/ wife/employee/ friend; daughter.
15. You find yourself withholding information from friends and family so you don’t have to explain or make excuses.

If any of that rings true with you, take the trouble to learn more about gaslighting. Resolve to have the courage to be honest and act on the truth. If your husband is a gaslighter, you probably do need to get out immediately, just as your therapist says. Consult with a priest, if you need to, in order to confirm your therapist’s opinion, but don’t delay because you are afraid you’re going to have to act. Stay because you’ve done your homework and decided that you ought to stay, not because you were afraid to learn that you ought to go.

Your child’s well-being, not to mention your own, depends on getting to the truth and acting on it and I don’t mean just the physical stuff. I mean that growing up in the same house with this man and his habit of gaslighting his responsibility away when he harms you and your son could permanently skew your child’s ability to discern what is and is not healthy or acceptable in an intimate relationship. It happened to you, and you’ve had to work hard to overcome that damage. Don’t let the same thing happen to your child. Either find a way to make your home both psychologically and physically safe or get your child out of it.

 

[EasterJoy]

Gas lighting has never been mentioned to me, but it does ring true! Absolutely. But, he is so subtle… It’s hard for me to even believe that any of this is done on purpose. He is often rude to the people I need him to be nice to (my boss) but will talk to the neighbor down the street for 30 minutes! He makes me second guess him and myself ALL the time.

Thank you for telling me about this!

Learning about gaslighting was an “ah-ha!” moment for me, too!

I don’t think it is important to decide whether or not the person doing it is culpable. I think that could start conversations (whether internal or external) that only delay action. All that needs to be realized is that the person doing the gaslighting is indeed twisting or obscuring the truth. If you get it, you get it, and you make adjustments. You don’t need to stick around long enough to “make them” get it or to decide if the person is only feigning that they don’t get it and therefore is deserving blame. After all, this is a pit whose dangers you can clearly see one minute, only to find yourself neck deep in it the next!

When you are standing on quicksand, what is mostly important is to purposefully go about finding a way out of it! Assessing blame can wait until you are on solid ground.

Don’t stop to blame. Do get moving, and without delay. And whatever you do: when deciding whether it is your gut or your spouse that is giving you accurate information about the truth of a situation, it is your gut until a 3rd party convinces you otherwise.

 

[missme22]

Can I ask… (my therapist appt isn’t for another week). Is it out of the norm for me to make one of my boundaries or necessities… His employment? He is trying to get out of taking this jOb offered to him. Yes, it’s an overnight shift, but it’s very good money that we NEED. He wants to wait for something better to come along.

I gently and kindly told him that he HAD to take that job. He’s been unemployed for 6 months now and I am working 24/7. If its not my normal gig I’m doing freelance work. If I do NOT do this… Than I will have to file bankruptcy. He racked up debt in my name years ago… So I carry the bills.

I know he’s trying to find a better job, but I suggested he take this opportunity and quit if something amazing comes along. He said he couldn’t do that to an employer on good conscience. Am I out of line?

Gas lighting has never been mentioned to me, but it does ring true! Absolutely. But, he is so subtle… It’s hard for me to even believe that any of this is done on purpose. He is often rude to the people I need him to be nice to (my boss) but will talk to the neighbor down the street for 30 minutes! He makes me second guess him and myself ALL the time.

Thank you for telling me about this!

 

[EasterJoy]

Can I ask… (my therapist appt isn’t for another week). Is it out of the norm for me to make one of my boundaries or necessities… His employment? He is trying to get out of taking this jOb offered to him. Yes, it’s an overnight shift, but it’s very good money that we NEED. He wants to wait for something better to come along.

I gently and kindly told him that he HAD to take that job. He’s been unemployed for 6 months now and I am working 24/7. If its not my normal gig I’m doing freelance work. If I do NOT do this… Than I will have to file bankruptcy. He racked up debt in my name years ago… So I carry the bills.

I know he’s trying to find a better job, but I suggested he take this opportunity and quit if something amazing comes along. He said he couldn’t do that to an employer on good conscience. Am I out of line?

Wow, yowie, and oy vey. You know I want to believe the best of your spouse, but I can see why you have a professional on the ground looking you in the eye and tearing her hair out because you aren’t running away from this situation.

You don’t have some idea that you are going to re-sculpt this fellow, do you? Do you accept him as he is, or will you only be happy if you can do a re-model? Stay if you want this for the rest of your life, but do not keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result. People sometimes change, but that is a) in their control only and b) in a direction and of a magnitude that is impossible to predict. IOW, what you are going through is realistically what you are going to get for the rest of your life. He could go up, he could get worse, but the way to bet is that he is what he is, and I fear very much that part of that is that his world revolves around him and getting what he wants, which is as much something as he can get for as close to nothing as he can get it. I don’t know, you know, but…in your experience, isn’t that true? Pardon me for shouting, but NO ONE GETS TO RE-MODEL OTHER PEOPLE, NOT EVEN YOU. ALL THE LOVE IN THE WORLD, NOT EVEN ALL YOU HAVE TO OFFER, STILL DOES NOT RE-MODEL OTHER PEOPLE. IT IS OFTEN TRIED, BUT IT DOES NOT WORK. Repeat this to yourself approximately 1,000 times before you go to bed tonight. Your question is not “how can I change him?” but rather “knowing what I know, can I live with this person…not the version I imagine he ought to want, but the version that he actually wants to be?”

In fact, the next time you are in therapy, ask your therapist to ask how to cope with all the changes this fellow is likely to pretend to make in order to get you back. You will need that information. You’ll still be free to make your own decisions, but you will be much more free from the danger that this fellow will again buffalo you into a choice you didn’t want to make.

 

[Tsudeaux_Gnymm]

Can I ask… (my therapist appt isn’t for another week). Is it out of the norm for me to make one of my boundaries or necessities… His employment? He is trying to get out of taking this jOb offered to him. Yes, it’s an overnight shift, but it’s very good money that we NEED. He wants to wait for something better to come along.

I gently and kindly told him that he HAD to take that job. He’s been unemployed for 6 months now and I am working 24/7. If its not my normal gig I’m doing freelance work. If I do NOT do this… Than I will have to file bankruptcy. He racked up debt in my name years ago… So I carry the bills.

I know he’s trying to find a better job, but I suggested he take this opportunity and quit if something amazing comes along. He said he couldn’t do that to an employer on good conscience. Am I out of line?

Is the only issue the graveyard shift? Daytime shifts usually open to people who perform well on the nighttime shift. If not, he would still have daytime hours to interview (believe me, he can certainly get a couple of lucid hours during business hours for the interview).

Employers always have high churn on the overnight shift. They know how to deal with it if he quits for a better job.

 

[missme22]

Yes that’s the only issue. It paid very well, too. And it would allow him to spend time with our son (if he slept all day). But it’s no longer an issue. He just turned it down. He’s “waiting for something better to come along”. Don’t get me wrong… He’s a very talented employee and dedicated to his work. He’s received a ton of awards. But now he feels he is better than what’s being offered to him. Unfortunately, we are going broke because of it.

In response to the previous responses… Easter Joy and Julianne…You are so kind to take the time and try to shake some sense into my head. I need to hear these opinions. Especially so I can act the best way possible… For our son.

It’s going to be tough now… Since he’s still unemployed. But, I’ve got to take action and get back to the lawyer. This ain’t changing… Anytime soon.

Is the only issue the graveyard shift? Daytime shifts usually open to people who perform well on the nighttime shift. If not, he would still have daytime hours to interview (believe me, he can certainly get a couple of lucid hours during business hours for the interview).

Employers always have high churn on the overnight shift. They know how to deal with it if he quits for a better job.

 

[Just_Lurking]

I highly recommend the book “Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men” by Lundy Bancroft (see here). From pages 72-73:
A woman can feel that she is losing her mind – or develop actual psychiatric symptoms – if the obvious realities of her life, including abuse, are denied repeatedly by her partner. The certainty and authority in his voice, with his eyes twisted up to show how baffled he is, leave her questioning herself. “Did that really happen? Maybe it didn’t. Maybe I do overreact to innocent things.” The more serious the incidents he denies, the more her grip on reality can start to slip. And if outsiders start to notice her instability, the abuser can use their observations to persuade them that here revelations of abuse by him are fantasies.

The partners of this style of abuser ask me: “After an incident, it seems like he really believes the abuse didn’t happen. Is he consciously lying?” The answer in most cases is yes. Most abusers do not have severe memory problems. He probably remembers exactly what he did, especially when only a short time has passed. He denies his actions to close off discussion because he doesn’t want to answer for what he did, and perhaps he even wants you to feel frustrated and crazy. However, a small percentage of abusers – perhaps one in twelve – may have psychological conditions such as narcissistic or borderline personality disorder, in which they literally block any bad behavior from consciousness. On of the clues that your partner may have such a disturbance is if you notice him doing similar things to other people. If his denial and mind messing are restricted to you, or to situations that are related to you, he is probably simply abusive.

 

[Just_Lurking]

And from pages 35-36:
On year my colleagues David and Carole were preparing a skit on abuse for a conference, and they decided to perform a rehearsal for their abuser group. Afterward, the group members rapid-fired their suggestions for improving the skit, directing them mostly at David: “No, no you don’t make excuses for why you’re home late, that puts you on the defensive, you’ve got to turn it around on her, tell her you know she’s cheating on you . . . You’re staying too far away from her, David. Take a couple of steps toward her, so she’ll know that you mean business . . . You’re letting her say too much. You’ve got to cut her off and stick to your points.” The counselors were struck by how aware the clients were of the kinds of tactics they use, and why they use them: In the excitement of giving feedback on the skit, the men let down their facade as “out-of-control abuser who doesn’t realize what he’s doing.”

 

[missme22]

Boy this rings true! The memory lapses are quite convenient. In my case My therapist even contacted CPS … After I requested it. My husband was grilled about the incident. Then. 1 month later in couples therapy … He told the therapist different details/circumstances about the situation. When I told him so… In front of the therapist… He blamed it on his bad memory. I began to cry and the therapist asked why… I told him that was the worst mOment of my life (when son was hurt) and that he couldn’t even have the decency to remember his story??? He just said “I don’t know what you want from me… I have a bad memory”.

 

[EasterJoy]

Boy this rings true! The memory lapses are quite convenient. In my case My therapist even contacted CPS … After I requested it. My husband was grilled about the incident. Then. 1 month later in couples therapy … He told the therapist different details/circumstances about the situation. When I told him so… In front of the therapist… He blamed it on his bad memory. I began to cry and the therapist asked why… I told him that was the worst mOment of my life (when son was hurt) and that he couldn’t even have the decency to remember his story??? He just said “I don’t know what you want from me… I have a bad memory”.

Decide if you can live in peace with him if he does not change. (Since he clearly doesn’t want to and sees no need to, why would you think he would?) Adjusting to what he has decided is acceptable will be your job, and your son’s job. Is that something you can expect to work out in a satisfactory way? Can you reasonably expect it to be safe?

I have a friend who married someone that none of her friends can figure out, but she has decided she can hold her own with him. She tells us stories, but not as if she ever expects to change him. This is the life she chose, and she had decided the up sides make the down sides worth it. She gets frustrated, but she does not fear him or what he’ll do. She feels she is still herself and she thinks he is a good father to their child. IOW, this isn’t about what anyone else thinks about your spouse. It is about whether you are choosing to accept him as he is with your eyes open.

If you cannot live in peace with him (as opposed to refusing to make the reasonable accomodations that can only be expected in marriage, considering the many foibles of fallible human beings) and especially if you have any concern about your safety or the safety of your children, a legal separaton is permissible under moral law, even if the marriage were to be found valid. A divorce is permissible if it is necessary to reach a just division of assets and to protect either of you from the misconduct of the other.

 

[missme22]

Well, the issue gets even worse now. I talked to my husband tonight… I had gotten a friend to hook him up with another jOb interview at a big/good company. He had a phone interview a few weeks ago and never heard back. He told me the interview went well but he told the woman that he was not proficient on a computer program necessary for the job. She wanted to test him for the day and told him he had 2 weeks to learn the system. Well he never learned it. After he turned Down the OTHER job I got upset and suggested he call the lady from the interview and follow up. She told him that she wasn’t sure about him because of his inability to use the system. So he told her again that he would get up to speed.

Now my hubby tells me that he is a failure. That he can’t possibly learn the program in time and he almost started to CRY when I told him that he had no choice. He said “I guess I’m just not good enough for you” and did this whole passive aggressive drama.

I put my foot down and told him to call that overnight job back and take THAT then and you would have thought I kicked him in the groin.

Turns out he was taking pictures of our son today to see if he could get him modeling. He heard over the weekend that they pay 5k a shoot. So THAT is his answer to working.

Decide if you can live in peace with him if he does not change. (Since he clearly doesn’t want to and sees no need to, why would you think he would?) Adjusting to what he has decided is acceptable will be your job, and your son’s job. Is that something you can expect to work out in a satisfactory way? Can you reasonably expect it to be safe?

I have a friend who married someone that none of her friends can figure out, but she has decided she can hold her own with him. She tells us stories, but not as if she ever expects to change him. This is the life she chose, and she had decided the up sides make the down sides worth it. She gets frustrated, but she does not fear him or what he’ll do. She feels she is still herself and she thinks he is a good father to their child. IOW, this isn’t about what anyone else thinks about your spouse. It is about whether you are choosing to accept him as he is with your eyes open.

If you cannot live in peace with him (as opposed to refusing to make the reasonable accomodations that can only be expected in marriage, considering the many foibles of fallible human beings) and especially if you have any concern about your safety or the safety of your children, a legal separaton is permissible under moral law, even if the marriage were to be found valid. A divorce is permissible if it is necessary to reach a just division of assets and to protect either of you from the misconduct of the other.

 

[EasterJoy]

Think about this very carefully:

Does you husband have a conscience and empathy for others or, if forced to guess, would you say that rather he feigns having these?

 

[missme22]

He does have empathy at times. Usually for animals… But he does have it infrequently.

He does not have it when necessary. For example … His mOm (across country) had breast cancer twice in one year. He never went home to visit her. Not once.

Think about this very carefully:

Does you husband have a conscience and empathy for others or, if forced to guess, would you say that rather he feigns having these?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I put my foot down and told him to call that overnight job back and take THAT then and you would have thought I kicked him in the groin.

Turns out he was taking pictures of our son today to see if he could get him modeling. He heard over the weekend that they pay 5k a shoot. So THAT is his answer to working.

So your husband is going to attempt to use his son as a source of income. How typically narcissistic of him.