Palestinian-Israeli Conflict

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In Palestine, Hamas, which won the election, has been brutalising its rival Fatah while blaming the Israelis for their misfortune. During recent fighting for Gaza, Hamas was accused by Human Rights Watch of “violations international humanitarian law, in some cases amounting to war crimes.” According to Human Rights Watch: “Hamas military forces captured 28-year-old Muhammad Swairki, a cook for Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas’s presidential guards, and executed him by throwing him to his death, with his hands and legs tied, from a 15-story aparment building in the Gaza City.”

The unspeakable brutality of Hamas toward fellow Palestinians stands in stark contrast with the moderation it has shown to kidnapped BBC journalist Allan Johnston by arranging his release. Why Hamas showed no mercy to Muhammad Swairki, a poor Palestinian cook? The answer may be that Hamas has no sympathy with a fellow Palestinian who doesn’t share its vision.

In Iran, the ruling Shiite mullahs are regularly slaughtering fellow Iranians who don’t share their vision of Shia Islam. Iranian writer Azar Nafisi tells us about the brutality of Shiite mullahs in her book Reading Lolita in Tehran. Her story of Iran is a struggle for survival in a country where Shia mullahs regularly “hang people in the streets,” – a country where educated women are viewed as enemies of the state. If Benazir were an Iranian leader, she would have met the same fate in the hands on extremist Muslims.
Mahmood Elahi is a freelance contributor to The Daily Star.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Nice try, but totally off-base.

The poster said there were places where Muslims were killing other Muslims in the thousands. Trying to go all over the world just to get a number in 1000s, when the victims aren’t even Muslims, pretty much defeats the point. (And yeah I reject the site, but even if the information is valid it doesn’t meet the criteria.)
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Hi Amy, if you check out the list and the countries they must be 95% Islamic countries and Islam is the majority therefore it classifies as muslim on muslim violence.

OK - so how about the Sudan - 90% muslim. Have you read about muslim on muslim killings…
There are many casualties, estimates mostly concurring on a range within the hundreds of thousands of people. The United Nations estimates that the conflict has left as many as 300,000 dead from violence and disease
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The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum estimates that 100,000 have died each year because of government attacks. Most non-governmental organizations use 200,000 to more than 500,000; the latter is a figure from the Coalition for International Justice
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darfur_conflict
 
jakasaki said:
Hi Amy, if you check out the list and the countries they must be 95% Islamic countries and Islam is the majority therefore it classifies as muslim on muslim violence.

OK - so how about the Sudan - 90% muslim. Have you read about muslim on muslim killings…

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darfur_conflict
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I’m starting to not know what you’re talking about, you’ve diverged so far from the question at hand.

I’ve updated my signature by adding a link to a great letter written in 1947 by King Abdullah of Jordan. I suggest everyone read it, who is interested in the matter of Palestine.
 
In Iran, the ruling Shiite mullahs are regularly slaughtering fellow Iranians who don’t share their vision of Shia Islam. Iranian writer Azar Nafisi tells us about the brutality of Shiite mullahs in her book Reading Lolita in Tehran. Her story of Iran is a struggle for survival in a country where Shia mullahs regularly “hang people in the streets,” – a country where educated women are viewed as enemies of the state. If Benazir were an Iranian leader, she would have met the same fate in the hands on extremist Muslims.
Mahmood Elahi is a freelance contributor to The Daily Star.

But when Sunni suicide bombers murdered 118 Shia pilgrims (and wounded almost 200 more) on Tuesday, Sunnis around the globe looked away: Shias only count as Muslims when America can be blamed for their suffering
Where were the public statements of sympathy by government ministers and mullahs? Where was the noble Arab media? Where are the outraged demonstrations?
R. Peters N.Y. Post

Nor is Iraq the only place where Muslim violence against Muslims rages unabated. There is Darfur in Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Kashmir, Algeria until recently, and hotspots in Iran, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Indonesia and Nigeria, Uzbekistan, Palestine, Morocco, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Lebanon.
Salim Mansour
 
If ignorance and poverty are responsible for the growth of extremist views in the Islamic world, someone needs ask to Muslim students, privileged enough and bright enough to attend some of the United Kingdom’s best universities, why one-in-three of them endorses killing in the name of Islam.

53 per cent believe killing in the name of religion is never justified (compared with 94 per cent of non-Muslims), while 32 per cent say it is
World Net Daily
 
I would like to apologize to the poster who started this thread, for any posts of mine that have taken this thread off it’s original topic. Please forgive me. I think the issue is very serious and I wouldn’t like for any of my comments to seem dismissive. I hope you can also forgive me for preemptively judging your intentions.

To those posters who are simply hell-bent on talking about Muslims being violent, I encourage you to check out the following organization, which I heard about from a friend just today.

Pax Christi USA

The link in my signature is to a letter written in 1947 (6 months or so before the creation of the state of Israel) by the King of Jordan. It sums up the Muslim position, and since it’s over 60 years old, I hope people can avoid trying to impose ulterior motives. It actually provides the essence of what has been the argument of the Arabs for over 60 years now.

Let’s all pray for peace in the middle east. Peace for everyone who lives there.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Now, the poster made a specific claim, that Muslims are killing Muslims in thousands somewhere, and that Muslims aren’t upset about it. He hasn’t backed that up.
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Yes, Darfur is probably the worst example, but only one of many.

The question for me isn’t why are muslims so violent. This thread is about why muslims make such a big deal about Palestine. Yes, the palestinians got a tough break, but so did the muslim blacks in Darfur. Where are all the muslims protesting Darfur and blowing up Sadan embassies and blowing up shopping malls in Khartoum?

Yes we all feel bad for the Palestinians, at least we did until they refused to make peace. Most of us have lost our patience with them now.
 
I don’t think this war is about religion. Sure misinterpretation of religion gives Hamas what they see as a moral high ground, but the war is about land and recent historic events.

As for Muslims protecting Palestine from criticism, neither side is innocent, if you are to protect Israel you might want to check Israel’s crimes also.
 
Sister_Amy said:
This is absurd. Palestine was divvied up in the 40’s, part of it becoming Israel. The rest of it wasn’t Jordan. Gaza and the West Bank were occupied in the 60’s. More recently Gaza was technically evacuated of IDF troops and Israeli settlers, however the population there has been strangled ever since. The West Bank is still occupied.
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JL: I find it ironic, we are told Gaza is strangled, yet they have no problem getting rockets and amo to overflowing. It seems it is only strangled when it comes to helping its own people, with medical supplies and other goods. It makes me wonder if that is to keep hate for Israel alive. After all a prosperous Gaza would not make a fertile field for terrorist.
Sister_Amy said:
I would like to inform you that the only reason Muhammad and the Muslims migrated to Yathrib (Medina) is because they were invited there by a community of Jews. And that they lived side-by-side with those Jews for years, many of whom became Muslim.
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JL: That is correct, to their great misfortune. They mistakingly, at first, thought Muhammad was the messiah and invited him to Medina, however when they relized their mistake, they were wiped out.
Sister_Amy said:
The animosity between Arabs and Israelis is based on modern conflict–it is based on the immigration of Jews to Palestine, the expulsion of Palestinians from their homes, the creation of the state of Israel on Palestinian land, and the subsequent sufferings of the Palestinian people. It has nothing to do with religion, believe it or not.
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JL: I agree with that also, but the Palestine people have been used ever since as a political tool by surrounding Arab nations, with the exception of Jordan. Egypt woke up under Sadat, who was assassinated, Egypt has tried to bring peace to the area. I think many of the Arab countries now want peace.
Sister_Amy said:
Of course the force is excessive. And yet, just like in Lebanon in 2006, both sides will lose. One side loses life, the other side loses public opinion. The war in Gaza will only strengthen Hamas, just like the war in Lebanon strengthened Hezbollah. Israel’s neighbors will only hate it even more. The whole affair is the exact opposite of working for peace.
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JL: I think Israel is justified in its actions. If Hamas could send those rockets where they wanted, it would be to kill as many civilians as possible. I have no doubt they would aim for schools and dance in the street if they killed 800 children.
 
Sister_Amy said:
The only thing you’re proving is that you made a claim you can’t back up.
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If that isn’t the pot calling the kettle black! Sister Amy, you should look over your own past posts. You do this all the time when confronted with a question or fact about Islam you cannot account for or would prefer to be in denial of: “I COULD tell you the answer to that…but I won’t because I don’t think you’re really interested.”
Ignorance is bliss!
 
Sister_Amy said:
I would like to apologize to the poster who started this thread, for any posts of mine that have taken this thread off it’s original topic. Please forgive me. I think the issue is very serious and I wouldn’t like for any of my comments to seem dismissive. I hope you can also forgive me for preemptively judging your intentions.

To those posters who are simply hell-bent on talking about Muslims being violent, I encourage you to check out the following organization, which I heard about from a friend just today.

Pax Christi USA

The link in my signature is to a letter written in 1947 (6 months or so before the creation of the state of Israel) by the King of Jordan. It sums up the Muslim position, and since it’s over 60 years old, I hope people can avoid trying to impose ulterior motives. It actually provides the essence of what has been the argument of the Arabs for over 60 years now.

Let’s all pray for peace in the middle east. Peace for everyone who lives there.
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Sister Amy, I appreciate your apology, but you still haven’t been able to address the original question. And as for “Pax Christi USA”, it’s a dissident and radical leftist organization that has usurped the name “Catholic”.
 
Alexius said:
Admitedly,** I am not a fan of Islam (I am Christian afterall), but I have to agree with Sister Amy–the war is less about religion than about politics. **There has been many Christians who fought for Palestine over the past few decades. In fact, George Habash, the founder of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) was Greek Orthodox (He passed away this time last year and received an Orthodox procession). It is certain that several organizations have Islam as their ideology, but I believe that even one who has a bias against Islam can admit that the root of the cause is Palestinian nationalism. To what extent that “root cause” has been expanded is up for debate, but the roots are the life.

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius :cool:
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islam is not just about religion. it dictates politics as well. we must pray every night for the conversion of muslim souls.

Volume 9, Book 85, Number 77:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

While we were in the mosque, Allah’s Apostle came out to us and said, “Let us proceed to the Jews.” So we went along with him till we reached Bait-al-Midras (a place where the Torah used to be recited and all the Jews of the town used to gather). The Prophet stood up and addressed them, “O Assembly of Jews! Embrace Islam and you will be safe!” The Jews replied, “O Aba-l-Qasim! You have conveyed Allah’s message to us.” The Prophet said, “That is what I want (from you).” He repeated his first statement for the second time, and they said, “You have conveyed Allah’s message, O Aba-l-Qasim.” Then he said it for the third time and added, “You should Know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to exile you fro, this land, so whoever among you owns some property, can sell it, otherwise you should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle.” (See Hadith No. 392, Vol. 4)
 
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Salaam/peace
MrDickerson said:
Why are Muslims so obsessed with the Palestinian-Israeli issue?
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related links:

Biblical Roots of the Palestinian Problem

readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1203757723715&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam%2FAskAboutIslamE%2FAskAboutIslamE

Palestine: Its Significance for Muslims

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503545400
it is an insult that “apes and pigs” (Quran’s term for Jews and Christians)
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Quran referred Jews & Christians as people of the holy book. killing any innocent person is a major sin in Islam. God ordered Muhammed (p) to say to Jews & Christians :

Say: "O People of the Book!

come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but God; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than God."

If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to God’s Will).

(Aal `Imran 3:64)
 
MrDickerson said:
Sister Amy, I appreciate your apology, but you still haven’t been able to address the original question. And as for “Pax Christi USA”, it’s a dissident and radical leftist organization that has usurped the name “Catholic”.
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If the question is why Muslims are “obsessed” about Palestine, the answer is because their brothers and sisters have been suffering there not for 3 weeks, not for 3 months, not for 3 years, but for over 60 years.

Also, the suffering of the Palestinians is a direct result of Israeli aggression and US support for that aggression. The mainstream media has no interest in covering Darfur (except to disguise the raping of Sudan’s natural resources, which is exactly what is happening there) or Kashmir, or Chechnya. They’re not interested–they don’t care what Muslims have to say. They don’t. That doesn’t mean Muslims don’t have anything to say–I know at my mosque we routinely have fund drives and send food and other donations to the suffering populations of various Muslim nations from the Sudan to Thailand. They set up homes for refugees from Burma and Iraq. If you follow blogs you’ll find loads and loads of noise about the struggles between India and Pakistan.

The only place you won’t find it is on the news. Hm!

Also, because the USA plays such a vital role in the ability of Israel to transgress against its neighbors, the USA becomes a target of protests against the suffering of Palestinians. No other nation is supporting Israel the way the USA does, so Palestine is making the news more, and Americans are also more involved in that particular conflict.

The fact that Palestine is home to a holy city in Islam (that is, Jerusalem) is of much less significance than the fact that the population is being practically suffocated in a concentration camp, without access to adequate food, fuel, or medical supplies (due to the blockade,) without freedom to travel its own roads (as in the West Bank), frequently under obscene curfews such that children are not even allowed to go to school.

What is being done in the name of democracy around the world is a travesty, and when the US bears responsibility for it, you can’t escape hearing about it.
 
i guess islam is the only religion on earth which allows crucifixion as a penalty.
 
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