Palestinians Admitted to Unesco in Landslide Vote

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Scott_Lafrance said:
Good. Its about time the US uses the power of the purse with this insane organization.
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What’s insane about UNESCO? Countries take different sides on the Israeli-Palestinian issue just as they have historically on lots of other issues: it’s the global version of what countless American lives have been laid down to protect: democracy.

Just because a majority of countries recognize Palestinian statehood does not make them insane; it simply makes us look like the rich kid on the block who picks up his marbles and goes home when the other kids won’t let him make all the rules. Fine, then don’t come out to play! Let the other kids figure out a way to buy their own marbles.
 
seekerz said:
What’s insane about UNESCO? Countries take different sides on the Israeli-Palestinian issue just as they have historically on lots of other issues: it’s the global version of what countless American lives have been laid down to protect: democracy. .
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Fine, so they have free speech, and freedom to fund themselves. We don’t need to give them money to advocate policies that go against the US national interest. Such as funding Hamas.
 
gilliam said:
Fine, so they have free speech, and freedom to fund themselves. We don’t need to give them money to advocate policies that go against the US national interest. Such as funding Hamas.
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UNESCO funds Hamas? Or are you referring to the countries which support Palestinian statehood? Nevertheless, this is freedom at work. I remember a time when Catholics from many places in the world supported the IRA. The more things change the more they remain the same…
 
seekerz said:
UNESCO funds Hamas? Or are you referring to the countries which support Palestinian statehood? Nevertheless, this is freedom at work. I remember a time when Catholics from many places in the world supported the IRA. The more things change the more they remain the same…
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So not suporting UNESCO is the moral equivalent to supporting the IRA???
 
estesbob said:
So not suporting UNESCO is the moral equivalent to supporting the IRA???
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That’s not at all what I said. Read the post again. I’m simply making the argument that the world community takes sides on conflicts within and between other countries all the time. In addition, tiny countries you’ve never heard of seem to love thumbing their noses at those who really have power in the world.

I don’t see what there is to complain about. Most of these votes are largely symbolic because in the end only a handful of powerful countries have veto power over major UN decisions. So I guess even my democracy analogy is only partially accurate.
 
seekerz said:
That’s not at all what I said. Read the post again. I’m simply making the argument that the world community takes sides on conflicts within and between other countries all the time. In addition, tiny countries you’ve never heard of seem to love thumbing their noses at those who really have power in the world.

I don’t see what there is to complain about. Most of these votes are largely symbolic because in the end only a handful of powerful countries have veto power over major UN decisions. So I guess even my democracy analogy is only partially accurate.
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OK-sorry I misunderstood.
 
seekerz said:
What’s insane about UNESCO? Countries take different sides on the Israeli-Palestinian issue just as they have historically on lots of other issues: it’s the global version of what countless American lives have been laid down to protect: democracy.

Just because a majority of countries recognize Palestinian statehood does not make them insane; it simply makes us look like the rich kid on the block who picks up his marbles and goes home when the other kids won’t let him make all the rules. Fine, then don’t come out to play! Let the other kids figure out a way to buy their own marbles.
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I was talking about the UN.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
I was talking about the UN.
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Ok. Got ya.

I think the UN gets a bad rap. There are multiple organizations within it, effecting real change in countries with limited resources (the UNDP and UNICEF) to name a few. Sure their methods don’t always jive with Catholic teaching, but the same might be said of certain large, independent philanthropic organizations or even of international financial institutions like the World Bank.

It just seems to me that the only time the UN really gets attention in the US media is when there is some sort of opposition to a US position or some sort of failure or scandal. To the countries of the developing world it is one way to get their voice out there, even if they lack the individual capacity to effect any real change. It’s not surprising then, that they occasionally coalesce around issues or resent the withholding of dues by countries who already hold a disproportionate influence on UN decisions. (I don’t think that withholding financial contributions strips a country of its right to veto a UN vote, but I may be wrong).
 
The significance of this seems more symbolic than practical. But what many anti-Palestinian folks fail to see, is that such legitimate recognition of Palestine gives credibility to the idea that Palestinians can have statehood and extricate themselves from their current terrible position through peaceful and legitimate methods. Every stonewalling of the Palestinians gives more credibility to the propagators of violence, and reinforces their case that violence is the only way.
 
seekerz said:
Ok. Got ya.

I think the UN gets a bad rap. There are multiple organizations within it, effecting real change in countries with limited resources (the UNDP and UNICEF) to name a few. Sure their methods don’t always jive with Catholic teaching, but the same might be said of certain large, independent philanthropic organizations or even of international financial institutions like the World Bank.

It just seems to me that the only time the UN really gets attention in the US media is when there is some sort of opposition to a US position or some sort of failure or scandal. To the countries of the developing world it is one way to get their voice out there, even if they lack the individual capacity to effect any real change. It’s not surprising then, that they occasionally coalesce around issues or resent the withholding of dues by countries who already hold a disproportionate influence on UN decisions. (I don’t think that withholding financial contributions strips a country of its right to veto a UN vote, but I may be wrong).
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The UN is a class A organization.

If you define class A as an organization that is great at starting committees that accomplish nothing while flying people around the world to staying in expensive hotels so they can ‘observe’.
 
iamrefreshed said:
The UN is a class A organization.

If you define class A as an organization that is great at starting comittiees that accomplish nothing while flying people around the world to staying in expensive hotels so they can ‘observe’.
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the purpose of the UN is twofold. Pass resolutions condemning Israel and find ways to spend United States money promoting causes that are against the interests of the United States.
 
Apparently Palestine has said that its first objective as a member state of UNESCO will be to achieve World Heritage Status for the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, hopefully allowing for funds to be secured for a much-needed restoration. Are we as Catholics going to condemn this?
 
O_Duirnin said:
Apparently Palestine has said that its first objective as a member state of UNESCO will be to achieve World Heritage Status for the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, hopefully allowing for funds to be secured for a much-needed restoration. Are we as Catholics going to condemn this?
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There is no “Catholic” postion on this.
 
O_Duirnin said:
Apparently Palestine has said that its first objective as a member state of UNESCO will be to achieve World Heritage Status for the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, hopefully allowing for funds to be secured for a much-needed restoration. Are we as Catholics going to condemn this?
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I won’t, but many will. It’s Palestine, after all. Worthy of nothing but condemnation
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estesbob:
the purpose of the UN is twofold. Pass resolutions condemning Israel and find ways to spend United States money promoting causes that are against the interests of the United States.
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Someone has to help balance out the purpose of the American state department: unconditionally support Israel even when it’s against American interests (and when it’s against Israeli interests) and use tax payers’ money to systematically erode the American reputation abroad.
 
O_Duirnin said:
Apparently Palestine has said that its first objective as a member state of UNESCO will be to achieve World Heritage Status for the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, hopefully allowing for funds to be secured for a much-needed restoration. Are we as Catholics going to condemn this?
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I don’t remember, is this the same church they trashed and took hostages in?
 
iamrefreshed said:
I don’t remember, is this the same church they trashed and took hostages in?
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Because the Palestinian people are clearly all as bad as one another, so we may as well tar them with the same brush - surely you can see the absurdity of this? I wouldn’t see it as appropriate to collectively blame the Israeli people and Government for the King David Hotel bombing, for example.

The relevant Catholic and Orthodox authorities in the Holy Land strongly support this - that’s good enough for me. Hopefully we can all benefit as pilgrims if and when this work is carried out.
 
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