Pallium for Eastern Catholic Bishop

[belgianwaffles9]

Did anyone see the one Eastern Catholic Archboshop who was given his pallium today?

It struck me as extremely interesting, and a bit bizarre, for a few reasons.

First, it fit horribly over his omophorion.

Secondly, the omophorion and the pallium descended from the same original vestment, so it is almost like he is wearing the same thing twice.

Anyone else find this interesting?

 

[SacredHeartFan]

I am watching right now.
What is a pallium?
Speaking of I need to start a thread about St. Peter Basilica!

 

[bpbasilphx]

I thought exactly the same thing, Belgianwaffles.

 

[Crumpy]

I watched the entire re-play of that Mass starting at 9 pm eastern last night.

I saw that coming, and I wondered how that pallium would be worn with his vestments. It looks odd, doesn’t it?

It is more injustice that women do not get any such level of Papal approbation. As much as the pallium signifies loyalty to the Pope, I’d like to wear a pallium, too.

It would be more difficult to match up the pallium for the varied outfits that religious sisters wear. Would any sister decline the pallium for humility sake?

 

[JesuXPIPassio]

Did anyone see the one Eastern Catholic Archboshop who was given his pallium today?

It struck me as extremely interesting, and a bit bizarre, for a few reasons.

First, it fit horribly over his omophorion.

Secondly, the omophorion and the pallium descended from the same original vestment, so it is almost like he is wearing the same thing twice.

Anyone else find this interesting?

I noticed that too! It didn’t even really hang from the back. I have to plead ignorance on this – I didn’t know Easterners used the Pallium. But, it’s still a beautiful sign, as odd-fitting as it is.

I am watching right now.
What is a pallium?

You know that portion in the Mass before the Liturgy of the Eucharist where the Pope put those white things on the shoulders of those 40 Archbishops? That white thing was the pallium; it’s a gift that the Pope gives to each Metropolitan Archbishop. The Pope uses one too, though his looks a bit different.

Take a look here for a picture of it catholicregister.org/content/view/840/849/

Its wool is made from lambs that are blessed on the Feast of Saint Agnus, then they usually give the Pallium on the Feast of Saints Peter and Paul. At the ends, inside the black parts, they are weighed down by pieces of metal.

 

[belgianwaffles9]

I watched the entire re-play of that Mass starting at 9 pm eastern last night.

I saw that coming, and I wondered how that pallium would be worn with his vestments. It looks odd, doesn’t it?

I’m wondering if Eastern Bishops could possibly wear an older design of the pallium that fits better with their vestments…

It is more injustice that women do not get any such level of Papal approbation. As much as the pallium signifies loyalty to the Pope, I’d like to wear a pallium, too.

It would be more difficult to match up the pallium for the varied outfits that religious sisters wear. Would any sister decline the pallium for humility sake?

There are awards and honors that religious sisters can receive from the pope, but the pallium would be innapropriate for a religious sister. It is reserved for archbishops because, being made of wool, it is a sign that, as bishops, they are called to be shepherds for their flock of faithful Catholics. The symbolism and history of the pallium doesnt mesh with the calling of religious sisters.

However, i agree with you that i’d love to see a ceremony where the Pope recognized the hard and important work of religious sisters who go above and beyond their calling every day.

 

[SacredHeartFan]

You know that portion in the Mass before the Liturgy of the Eucharist where the Pope put those white things on the shoulders of those 40 Archbishops? That white thing was the pallium; it’s a gift that the Pope gives to each Metropolitan Archbishop. The Pope uses one too, though his looks a bit different.

Take a look here for a picture of it catholicregister.org/content/view/840/849/

Its wool is made from lambs that are blessed on the Feast of Saint Agnus, then they usually give the Pallium on the Feast of Saints Peter and Paul. At the ends, inside the black parts, they are weighed down by pieces of metal.

I just didn’t know what it symbolized.

 

[bpbasilphx]

**
I’m wondering if Eastern Bishops could possibly wear an older design of the pallium that fits better with their vestments…**

The “older design” of the paillium is EXACTLY the Omophorion (worn by all Byzantine bishops).

 

[Spirithound]

I also thought it fit awkwardly. I figured maybe he wouldn’t actually wear it, and it was a symbolic gift only.

 

[JesuXPIPassio]

I just didn’t know what it symbolized.

It symbolises the jurisdiction of a Metropolitan Archbishop over the suffragan bishops (even though today that doesn’t really mean much, since bishops now report directly to the Pope rather than through the Metropolitan). The sheep’s wool is a symbol of the Metropolitan’s job as a shepherd of a larger flock. Since it’s a sign of jurisdiction, Metropolitans can’t use it after they leave their archdioceses.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

Did anyone see the one Eastern Catholic Archboshop who was given his pallium today?

It struck me as extremely interesting, and a bit bizarre, for a few reasons.

First, it fit horribly over his omophorion.

Secondly, the omophorion and the pallium descended from the same original vestment, so it is almost like he is wearing the same thing twice.

Anyone else find this interesting?

During the last years of the JP2 pontificate, EC bishops who were awarded the pallium were - on several occasions - presented the pallium outside of the Mass where the Latins got them, and were essentially handed them (rather than vested with them) at the service… At a number of levels, this seems to make much more sense… I hope that this becomes the norm again.

 

[JesuXPIPassio]

During the last years of the JP2 pontificate, EC bishops who were awarded the pallium were - on several occasions - presented the pallium outside of the Mass where the Latins got them, and were essentially handed them (rather than vested with them) at the service… At a number of levels, this seems to make much more sense… I hope that this becomes the norm again.

I’m curious, do Eastern Catholic Metropolitans ever actually wear their palliums? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a picture of one doing so.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

I’m curious, do Eastern Catholic Metropolitans ever actually wear their palliums? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a picture of one doing so.

I am sure if you go looking you can find some who have - when in Rome and all… by and large, no, they do not.

 

[belgianwaffles9]

**
I’m wondering if Eastern Bishops could possibly wear an older design of the pallium that fits better with their vestments…**

The “older design” of the paillium is EXACTLY the Omophorion (worn by all Byzantine bishops).

Well, yes if you go back far enough.

But the modern Omophorion is much larger and more decorated in some eastern Churches, especially the russian or greek. And of course, theres the Small Omophorion and Large Omophorion. I think the modern pallium would look better with the small omophorion.

And there was a time before the pallium was as it is today, yet was still distinct enough from the omophorion. Maybe Eastern Bishops could wear that, although i still think its redundant.

http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/images/8/80/Pallium-1.jpg

 

[Chris_McAvoy]

i31.tinypic.com/6fzcjs.jpg

Pallium on the left, Omophorion on the right.

My two ideas.

#1 I would suggest offering the same vestment to everyone and simply allowing them to fold, pin or wear it slightly differently.

#2 offering two or three slighty wider pallium/omophorions with slightly bigger or more numerous crosses on them and the hierarch bestows whichever is suitable for particular jurisdiction or nation.

Regardless the fact is that during the early medieval period in the West there was quite a variety of Palliums around. As that encylopedia article shows these different varieties coexisted at the same time for decades. Obviously the Pope was not giving out the same style of Pallium to everyone. In fact I think the variety of palliums is evidence that the Pope did not in fact personally bestow the Pallium on all Hierarches but did so through representative legates, local metropolitan or other local bishops.

In fact a variation of the Pallium called the "Rationale’ was given out frequently by the western Holy Roman Emperor (aka King of the Loongbardos/Saxons/Franks) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationale

Which appears to show a similarity of pseudo Caesaro papism in the west leading to the gregorian reforms. Really it is amazing for me to realize that the Western Germanic peoples were competeing with the the Eastern Roman Empire in cultural superiority. Clearly the west wishes to emulate the east at that time in a way that is amazing because it is such an opposite reaction of what exists by the time Peter the Great reforms Russia to emulate the Franks of 1700!.

Though today we probably do see small signs of similar recognition of Easterners value in a religious sense. It is in fact astounding to see the Pope wear the traditional Pallium which most westerners last saw being worn by Latin Archbishop Maximian in the presence of Emperor Justinian in 527 AD in the Ravenna mosaic.

 

[belgianwaffles9]

#1 I would suggest offering the same vestment to everyone and simply allowing them to fold, pin or wear it slightly differently.

I think that’s a good idea.

In fact a variation of the Pallium called the "Rationale’ was given out frequently by the western Holy Roman Emperor (aka King of the Loongbardos/Saxons/Franks) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationale

Very right about the Rationale. In fact, there are FOUR distinct styles of rationale! The rationale you posted about is currently worn only by the Archbishops of Krakow. But as you can see, it is distinct from, though related to the pallium, because in these pictures the Archbishop wears both the Rationale AND the Pallium.
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The future Pope John Paul II wearing the Rationale as Abp. of Krakow:

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Other styles style worn by the Bishops of Eichstätt, and Paderborn:

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The style worn by the Bishop of Toul:

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[Hesychios]

Did anyone see the one Eastern Catholic Archboshop who was given his pallium today?

It struck me as extremely interesting, and a bit bizarre, for a few reasons.

First, it fit horribly over his omophorion.

Secondly, the omophorion and the pallium descended from the same original vestment, so it is almost like he is wearing the same thing twice.

Anyone else find this interesting?

The Pallium is a symbol of control, I think.

It (the practice of bestowing the Pallium) actually seems to mean that a bishop cannot wear the Omophor (symbol of the shepherd) until the Bishop of Rome has granted it. If this is true for the west and the practice has been extended to the east, perhaps the eastern Catholic bishops should ditch their own Omophors altogether in favor of the new style Pallium.

Honestly, for many Byzantine-Slavonic Catholic bishops up until these days the Omophorion had devolved into a large (pre-B16) Pallium-type bib anyway, all pre-sewn and popped over the head the same way, often white, just bigger.

For them it wouldn’t be much of a change or loss. Perhaps an improvement esthetically

http://catholicukes.org.au/tiki/show_image.php?id=4403

Most of these above Omophors are pre-sewn. The identical pattern of crosses on each seem to imitate the Pallium.

On another matter, I was shocked to read this comment on another thread I wondered what people here thought of it:

"***You know what I found offensive? Pope Benedict celebrated a Mass at St. Pete’s on the Feast of Ss. Peter & Paul where ABps. and a Cardinal received their palliums.

Everyone was vested in red as Ss. Peter & Paul were obviously martyred for the faith. Everyone except an Eastern Catholic ABp. who was vested in gold. I don’t care if he never wears red vestments day to day – he could still have had a set made this this special occasion. Just so he wouldn’t have stuck out so terribly from the others. He still would have looked markedly different – just not quite so flamboyant and ostentatious. ***"

Did others here find his gold vestments offensive? Should he have worn his red vestments to satisfy some Latin Catholic sensibilities? It doesn’t appear that the Pope objected.

 

[Aramis]

While not having seen the gifting of the pallium, remember these things about the Eastern Churches:

the Omophorion is the sign of an Eastern Bishop, of any station.
It is vested at the elevation of the Bishop.
Technically, Eastern Patriarchs may enthrone their subordinate eparchs/bishops and metropolitans and archbishops.

The Pallium is a sign of a Metropolitan and/or Metropolitan-Archbishop answerable to the Pope.
The Pallium is gifted once per year, simultaneously, to those metropolitans, patriarchs, and archbishops elligible for it who were elevated and/or enthroned since the prior gifting of the Pallium.

While they both derive from the same source, they are not the same symbol, and have not been for centuries.

Also, given the fullness of the Omophoria of the various Byzantines, one would be hard pressed to tell if the Metropolitan was wearing the pallium anyway.
(The picture of His Beattitude Lubomyr at ugcc.org.ua/eng/ illustrates how full the omophorion can be. If he is wearing one, it could be hidden under his omophorion by accident or simple size.)

 

[Aramis]

Did others here find his gold vestments offensive? Should he have worn his red vestments to satisfy some Latin Catholic sensibilities? It doesn’t appear that the Pope objected.

Each vests according to the norms of their own church… which can result in some odd mixtures.

 

[belgianwaffles9]

Did others here find his gold vestments offensive? Should he have worn his red vestments to satisfy some Latin Catholic sensibilities? It doesn’t appear that the Pope objected.

No. As usual, spiller has no idea what he is talking about. If the Eastern Bishop, in the fullness of tradition of the eastern rite, chose to wear gold to mark such a special occasion, more power to him.