Panhandlers, beggars, homeless in a big city

[Lubomyr]

Surely you do agree that there are those out there that are homeless and not doing well through circumstance that really need to catch a break.

Of course. And anyone who has been around the block can tell the difference right away. For every seven c-notes I’ve burned on the altar of an idol I’ve invested at least a grand or two into a store of riches in heaven where moth and rust do not destroy and thieves do not break in and steal.

 

[Lubomyr]

I called him on it, and guess what, I’m obviously a terrible Christian for even daring to think he’s a lying son of a gun, not to mention, a rotten thief…

…but now, he may very well end up in Hell, all because I lent him some money.

You uncharitable meanie! Nevertheless, I think you can afford to beg heaven on his behalf that he not end up in hell.

Don’t tell anyone, but I’m involved in a grace-laundering scheme involving some clandestine connections with my peeps in purgatory. You want a cut of the profits?

 

[horselvr]

Well, Lubomyr now I am ROFL or at least chuckling:

" So as a Catholic, if I see panhandlers in my neighborhood, or worse in my family, out they go, no questions asked, no answers given. Because we don’t allow that here. Oh they will complain, and their naive enablers will join the chorus, but out they go.

This is oh so true. Oh he did complain, the naive and not so naive enablers (his mother) did join in, but OUT he went.

Thanks for the interesting read.

 

[Julia_Mae]

There was supposed to be more, but apparently there’s a length limit on posts. LOL You didn’t expect the long answer, did you?

I expected pretty much exactly what you posted. Is this what the Church teaches, this lack of charity you have justified through bits of Scripture that have nothing to do with charity?

Jesus said clearly He will judge you based on your charity.

Tell me, do you know any of the Scripture, any of the teachings of your Lord and your God, that do concern themselves with charity?

What does the Church say and what does Jesus say about charity?

 

[Lubomyr]

I expected pretty much exactly what you posted. Is this what the Church teaches, this lack of charity you have justified through bits of Scripture that have nothing to do with charity?

Jesus said clearly He will judge you based on your charity.

Tell me, do you know any of the Scripture, any of the teachings of your Lord and your God, that do concern themselves with charity?

What does the Church say and what does Jesus say about charity?

Julia, I really don’t have time or energy to get out the theological scalpel and cut a line between common sense and the documented magisterium. If you compartmentalize the sentences of holy writ into subject headings, then hey, if that works for you then more power to you. Personally I have an integrative approach, where everything inspired by the Holy Spirit means something regardless of whether you think it addresses a particular issue in the here and now, or not. I have found that an attitude of openness bears more fruit in my life than a proof-texting mentality where one verse has exactly one and no more than one meaning.

When you accuse me of a lack of charity, I just think of how God dealt with Cain. Instead of annihilating the world’s first murderer, he just put a mark on him, so that on the one hand everyone would know he was the world’s first murderer, but on the other hand, that ultimate justice is reserved to God. And Cain, God bless his soul, died a natural death. He deserved worse. But God in his mercy ordained peace for his generation.

At this point in my life, to speak frankly, I really don’t care what God or Jesus will judge me on. Basically my attitude is, if God is going to send me to hell because I ate bean burritos on a Friday but the tortillas had beef-lard in them and therefore I deserve eternal hellfire for violating the Church’s abstinence regulations, then … and if I ever merit an infraction, I will merit it now … then to hell with the Church and her regulations.

I argue with Protestants, Jews, Muslims, and Atheists nearly every day of my wretched, grace-filled life. I spoon-feed new Christians the milk and honey of the gospel. I fight with spiritual AK-47s.

I love God more than myself, and I thirst to see my lover face to face some day. Yeah, I’m a dude and yeah, it’s totally gay of me to love a “him” with all my decaying body and filthy soul, but I just do. My heart hurts every day I wake up alive in this life. But to me it just means I’m not done here yet.

But anyway, what more do you want me to tell you about righteous love of the poor? I have been there, I have done that, and I have the T-shirt. Do you want an expansion of my theory of “charity”? Do you want me to tell you what works and what doesn’t? Do you want me to sit here and spell out what constitutes true love towards your fellow man? Because girl if you need it, I will spell it out to you, with everyone on this forum watching. But anything that comes out of my laptop has already been stated by the canonized and unrecognized saints of our 2ky history.

In the words of the guy who supplanted Lucifer: I was not put here on this earth to be understood.

 

[tbcrawford]

But this isn’t about you, or anyone’s response to you. On CAF, things are about Jesus Christ. The Church is the body of Christ on earth. Nothing you, or I, or any other poster thinks is actually relevant. The only thing that is, is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

What did Jesus say?

Give to one who asks.

He did not say: Decide who is worthy.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Julia, I really don’t have time or energy to get out the theological scalpel and cut a line between common sense and the documented magisterium…

Well, there’s going to be plenty of Time when Jesus asks us for an explanation of our actions. I take it from your response, that the answer to my question about being familiar with Scripture on charity is “no.” So, here’s one:

“There was a rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate lay a poor man named Lazarus, full of sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man’s table; moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.”

“The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried; and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus in his bosom. And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy upon me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame.’”

“But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’”

“And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’”

“But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’”

“And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if some one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’”

“He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced if some one should rise from the dead.’” (Luke 16:19-31 RSV)

If a man in dirty tattered clothing comes to you on the street with his hand out or to your door with an empty plate and asks you to put some food into it, will you turn away Saint Francis of Assisi?

We do not get to decide who is worthy. We get to be Graced by the opportunity to obey God and love our brothers and sisters and give.

I imagine the rich guy in the parable gave all kinds of tithes to his Synagogue for the poor just as he was supposed to. He was a rich guy, known in the community. But he went to hell for bypassing the beggar at his door. He thought he had the right to judge to whom to give it, he thought it was his money, and forgot it belongs to God.

“As you do to the least of these, you do to Me.”

Choice is yours, of course.

God bless you abundantly.

 

[tbcrawford]

Lubomyr I have no idea how you have managed to get away with consistent uncharitable posts for so long wothout the moderator cautioning you.On other forums you would have been sanctioned.
What is very sad is you call yourself a catholic and yet your attitude brings the name of our church into disrepute by the rude and uncharitable posts you make.The very teachings of Jesus Himself are brought into disrepute.

We are all entitled to have our own opinions in life about all manner of things however you display no love or charity in the way you post your opinions.

Non catholics reading your posts will make assumptions about catholicism based on your remarks as you have the title of catholic for your religion.

We are called to love God and love our neighbour.Our actions of love and Christianity in action reflect our very faith.

Please consider being more charitable and the consequences of your posts. The way you post impacts upon all of us as do all of our posts,thankyou.

God bless you and all of us and may He guide us always.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Lubomyr I have no idea how you have managed to get away with consistent uncharitable posts for so long wothout the moderator cautioning you…

No one reported him, I don’t think. I figure in a thread about charity, we could try a different approach and see how it works out.

 

[tbcrawford]

No one reported him, I don’t think. I figure in a thread about charity, we could try a different approach and see how it works out.

Thankyou Julia Mae what a good and generous soul you are.
God bless

 

[PaulinVA]

Hey, this is a good thread!

Whether points are made in charity or brusqueness, they are still valid.

It all boils down to whether the presence of the “homeless by choice” scammers, the John Stossel professional beggars, the ne’er-do-well relatives should cause us to never help a homeless person or someone who seems destitute on the street.

I say that if we have to include a few “undeserving” people in our charity so that we can be sure to get all of the people that really need help, so be it.

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Thread started over.
Troll gone.
Proceed,

 

[jamesguy]

Go back to the parable of the Good Samaritan.

Did our example, the Samaritan, hand the man a bag of money? No, he took the man to an inn, a shelter, and he donated money for the man to be cared for by people who were trained to do just that.

exactly.you are right…god bless; yet…?

people are saying,give money to a scam…what scam, a person starving to death scaming people to stay alive? if you want scammers go to corporations. people have a lot to learn if they have not been there*…/ yes, there are some scammers,that means you don t give?*

 

[jamesguy]

Undercover television reports in many citiees have found that, yes, there are many who run such scams.

Some are and some aren’t, and you may not be able to tell the difference.

Whether we give directly to these people or we give to agencies trained to help them, we must always do so from the heart.

I personally believe that giving to agencies that can help those truly in need and can better discern the scam from the need is the best way for me to give. If I do give to the homeless or those begging on corners, I typically do not give cash. I give food or gift certificates/cards or referrals to agencies.

most arent scam. you ve got to be kidding,if someone is severly depressed,or scitsofrenic,has ragged clothes, no teeth, starving to death…pulling a scam?
scam for what? living for that week.
any christain who does not give to street people, do not know anything about jesus christ. nothing.

 

[Castello]

exactly.you are right…god bless; yet…?

people are saying,give money to a scam…what scam, a person starving to death scaming people to stay alive? if you want scammers go to corporations. people have a lot to learn if they have not been there*…/ yes, there are some scammers,that means you don t give?*

People in the US do not starve to death (unless they CHOOSE to do so).

There are soup kitchens, food pantries, free groceries in every town. Food stamps/SNAP is a huge program, every poor school child gets two free meals each school day.

The Christian thing to do is to help someone rise out of the circumstances that put them in a position to panhandle. To give them the dignity of work and to care for the widows and orphans or those who are so disabled they are actually unable to work (as opposed to those who create a “disability” to get more state aid).

 

[Julia_Mae]

The Christian thing to do is to help someone rise out of the circumstances that put them in a position to panhandle. .

One of Mother Teresa’s critics gave her the line about “tech them to fish and they eat for a lifetime.”

She said, “They can’t stand up. I’ll get them on their feet, you teach them to fish.”

The major causes of homelessness include:

The deinstitutionalization movement from the 1950s onwards in state mental health systems, to shift towards ‘community-based’ treatment of the mentally ill, as opposed to long-term commitment in institutions.

Redevelopment and gentrification activities instituted by cities across the country through which low-income neighborhoods are declared blighted and demolished to make way for projects that generate higher property taxes and other revenue, creating a shortage of housing affordable to low-income working families, the elderly poor, and the disabled.

The failure of urban housing projects to provide safe, secure, and affordable housing to the poor.

Foster home children are not given job training in school or at home. Without a means to make money, nearly half of foster children in the United States become homeless when they are released from foster care at age 18.

That information is from pre-recession. Jesus didn’t tell us to do a thing but give when asked to give. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

I have a 45 yr old nephew that I recently took in because he told me he wanted to straighten out his life after “living on the streets” for 5 yrs. I did gladly take him in and was happy to try to help him in his quest to change his life.

Well, three months of him sitting in front of the TV obsessing over Casey Anthony of all people, or sunning himself in the chaise longe was enough to realize that helping the “homeless” is not my calling or should I say his type of homeless, which is by choice.

He gets $200+/month from the government to buy food, he lives in the shelter which he feels is better than having to pay rent or a mortgage (and looks down on those that do as he feels they are materialistic). He has a whole subset of enablers from the churches in the area to sympathetic people that feel sorry for him because he is “homeless”.

He finally told me he does not want a job and actually chuckled at me for being stunned by that admission and realization that I had been had. Needless to say, he doesn’t live here anymore.

There are the real homeless people, those that are homeless through circumstance and no fault of their own and then there are the homeless by choice (my nephew) and they are very slick at mooching, at least he is. Lazy as the day is long.

I plugged in “homeless by choice” and educated myself on this group. I’m done with it.

This post is a definite “keeper”.

My priest friends who serve the poor have told me they do NOT give money.

 

[Castello]

One of Mother Teresa’s critics gave her the line about “tech them to fish and they eat for a lifetime.”

She said, “They can’t stand up. I’ll get them on their feet, you teach them to fish.”

That information is from pre-recession. Jesus didn’t tell us to do a thing but give when asked to give. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

The Sisters of Charity do not hand out money to panhandlers or beggars.

The Sisters do exactly what Mother modeled and Christ taught - they get those in need on their feet. They get the people to a place where they can have care, a bowl of rice or soup, a bath, a mat on the floor or cot to sleep on, prayers, a smile, medical attention.

THAT is what I am talking about, getting them out of a dangerous or unhealthy place.

Throwing money at someone is not help.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Throwing money at someone is not help.

The op is about encountering people on the street asking for money. Generally, he was also talking about someone seeking companionship.

So, here you are on the street and here is someone with his hand out. What is your response?

If you live in an urban area and encounter these folks on a regular basis, you can carry certificates for local fast food places, but it doesn’t give them access to the bus. Do you intend to stop and interview them about their lives and then… do what?

“Throwing” money would be rude. Handing them money, IMO, is pretty useful and respectful. You do what makes sense to you, of course.

 

[Castello]

Once again, Jesus Himself, the Apostles and the Saints teach us to care for those in poverty. We are never taught nor commanded to give them cash.

We are commanded to provide compassion, prayer, food, water, clothing, to meet the physical needs as well as the spiritual needs. When someone approaches me, I provide what I have on hand - I will give food or water, I will literally give the coat off my back. I will pray with anyone who asks, give them a cup of hot coffee and talk about things. I will direct someone to the places that can provide shelter and medical assistance. 99% do not want those things. They want cash. That speaks volumes.

I give compassion.