Panhandling problem at the church

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For almost a year the following announcement, with variation, has appeared in our Sunday Bulletin;
Code: 
 “**Panhandling is a Class C Misdemeanor**.
There are two individuals panhandling in and around church property. We ask that you** not** give these persons any money. **Just walk away and notify a staff person or a priest of their presence. **

Panhandling is the solicitation of an individual on a street or in a public place by requesting an immediate donation of money or something of value.” (the bold is their’s)​

This is the shorter of the standard two that appears. The longer goes into the criminality of the crime.

I didn’t like the announcement when it first appeared and it continues to bother me more. I have recently written a letter to our pastor and I hope Father gets back to me. I would like to offer suggestions of things as individuals and as a parish we can do. Have others on CAF or know of experiences in the parishes of how to respond to these ‘panhandlers’ that meet our Gospel calling?

Peace.
 
Kevin812 said:
For almost a year the following announcement, with variation, has appeared in our Sunday Bulletin;

“Panhandling is a Class C Misdemeanor.
There are two individuals panhandling in and around church property. We ask that you** not** give these persons any money. **Just walk away and notify a staff person or a priest of their presence. **

Panhandling is the solicitation of an individual on a street or in a public place by requesting an immediate donation of money or something of value.” (the bold is their’s)​

This is the shorter of the standard two that appears. The longer goes into the criminality of the crime.

I didn’t like the announcement when it first appeared and it continues to bother me more. I have recently written a letter to our pastor and I hope Father gets back to me. I would like to offer suggestions of things as individuals and as a parish we can do. Have others on CAF or know of experiences in the parishes of how to respond to these ‘panhandlers’ that meet our Gospel calling?

Peace.
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What makes you think your priest is NOT ‘responding’ in ways that meet the Gospel calling? It is possible that Father knows a great deal more about these people than you do and that what he is doing IS pastoral care.

Father may know that the money these men get goes into drugs and drink and criminal activities, not into food, clothing, or shelter. IOW, the money given ‘to help these poor men’ winds up causing innocent people grief and never gives the men what the giver ‘thought’ it would.

It is possible that the emphasis on the ‘crime’ is there because these men are habitual criminals and is even there to protect them. Since it is a misdemeanor, suppose “Joe well-Intentioned” gives $5 to said panhandler. . .who is then arrested, charged with misdemeaor, and uh-oh, it’s a ‘three strikes and you’re out’ community. . .

Father may be supplying these men with meals and offering referrals (and of course spiritual care) without having to ‘cash’ and put temptation in front of these men.

But if you’re concerned, asking Father, “Gosh, Father, I would not like to do anything criminal but it’s hot outside and I worry about those poor men, they look so wretched and hungry, can you suggest any way I can help” might be a good start.
 
Tantum_ergo said:
What makes you think your priest is NOT ‘responding’ in ways that meet the Gospel calling? It is possible that Father knows a great deal more about these people than you do and that what he is doing IS pastoral care.

Father may know that the money these men get goes into drugs and drink and criminal activities, not into food, clothing, or shelter. IOW, the money given ‘to help these poor men’ winds up causing innocent people grief and never gives the men what the giver ‘thought’ it would.

It is possible that the emphasis on the ‘crime’ is there because these men are habitual criminals and is even there to protect them. Since it is a misdemeanor, suppose “Joe well-Intentioned” gives $5 to said panhandler. . .who is then arrested, charged with misdemeaor, and uh-oh, it’s a ‘three strikes and you’re out’ community. . .

Father may be supplying these men with meals and offering referrals (and of course spiritual care) without having to ‘cash’ and put temptation in front of these men.

But if you’re concerned, asking Father, “Gosh, Father, I would not like to do anything criminal but it’s hot outside and I worry about those poor men, they look so wretched and hungry, can you suggest any way I can help” might be a good start.
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Sorry in advance, but I find your post to lack charity. I am very aware of how little we are doing and I am asking for other’s experiences.

We are not called to set in judgement of what beggars or others do with the money they are give. That is simply not our judgement.
 
Kevin812 said:
Sorry in advance, but I find your post to lack charity. I am very aware of how little we are doing and I am asking for other’s experiences.

We are not called to set in judgement of what beggars or others do with the money they are give. That is simply not our judgement.
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Um, with respect, and I apologize for any seeming lack of charity, I disagree. I am not ‘sitting in judgment’, I am simply giving some valid reasons that your priest could have for addressing a situation as he has. Again, you have written to him, which is certainly fine, and hopefully he will be able to satisfy your concerns.
 
Kevin812 said:
Sorry in advance, but I find your post to lack charity. I am very aware of how little we are doing and I am asking for other’s experiences.

We are not called to set in judgement of what beggars or others do with the money they are give. That is simply not our judgement.
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I believe it is a practice at the Vatican to give meals and other aid but not to give money. There is a thread about the seemingly lack of charity extended to beggars around the entrances to Vatican City.
 
Tantum_ergo said:
Um, with respect, and I apologize for any seeming lack of charity, I disagree. I am not ‘sitting in judgment’, I am simply giving some valid reasons that your priest could have for addressing a situation as he has. Again, you have written to him, which is certainly fine, and hopefully he will be able to satisfy your concerns.
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I didn’t see a lack of charity either, but that’s just me.

To the OP: Consider that these ‘panhandlers’ know where the legitimate charities are. This is common knowledge on the streets of every city - especially to the long term panhandlers. Notice that they are not at those approved charities. This is a prime indicator that they cannot obtain what they seek from a legitimate charity. It points more strongly to the possibility that they are using funds for illegitimate purposes. Oftentimes, such workers will work in groups, targeting women and using their close proximity as intimidation to gain funds. They might be boxing parishioners into corners or against walls as part of their ploy. How do I know this? 31 years in law enforcement, 27 of which were on the street.

It is highly likely that these individuals have been directed to legitimate charities on many prior occasions. They are, in essence, professional beggars, and are actually putting in a day’s work when you see them. What they seek, a Christian does probably does not want to provide them with. Scripture says one thing, but prudence says another. Ask Father about this - I will bet you that female staff and parishioners have expressed the concerns.
 
Kevin812 said:
For almos

I didn’t like the announcement when it first appeared and it continues to bother me more. I have recently written a letter to our pastor and I hope Father gets back to me. I would like to offer suggestions of things as individuals and as a parish we can do. Have others on CAF or know of experiences in the parishes of how to respond to these ‘panhandlers’ that meet our Gospel calling?

Peace.
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it is a huge problem as we are a downtown parish.

these people are well know to parish staff, they know when and how to get help if they need it but refuse it when offered, and prefer to solicit people directly and yes it is in violation of local law. It is also a real threat to the security of those coming to church, particularly children and the elderly. We had a very serious situation that required police intervention with panhandlers accosting youth outside CCD in the evening.

To cooperate with illegal activity condones and encourages it.

If you are really concerned with helping those in the parish who really need help, get involved with St. Vincent de Paul or other parish ministries.

With respect it is very much within the realm of the Christian exercise of the virtue of prudence to determine what is the best way, time, place and manner of helping those who express a need. It is particularly the legal and moral responsibility of the pastor to look after the welfare of all his flock in such a matter.
 
I have mixed views about a number of points brought up in this thread.

Are all Homeless people and Panhandlers criminals? Should they be treated in such regard? No I think not.

Perhaps it’s because I reside in a smaller city demographically that my city can boast it is lucky enough to deal with close to a 100 homeless people living and sleeping on the street during every season and the worst that weather can throw at them.

Every city has its share of homeless people. Some cities like Los Angeles have 90,000 homeless people on the street. There’s always three panhandlers at the bottom of the main granite stairs of our church every Sunday after Mass. Often two men and one woman.

None of them is ever under the influence of alcohol or drugs, and two of them are Catholics who stand at the back of the church to listen to Mass and they too receive Holy Communion.

Yes its illegal to panhandle. But why do people assume that homeless panhandlers are criminals? Is it because of their scruffy disheveled dirty smelly cloths and unshaven looks?

Does anyone even venture to give a thought that Jesus Himself is hidden under all these trappings? Few likely do because their minds a trapped on judging the superficial.

For every group of homeless panhandlers the police escorts away; three, four more will often show up and claim the territory of your church doorsteps to panhandle the following week.

In my city soup kitchens are closed on weekends so where else do they go to find a few dollars. People are always quick to judge saying that all such panhandlers will always buy booze.

I myself live off of a measly monthly welfare cheque of $402.00 and the help of better off loving family members. Without there help I’d be a panhandler myself.

For those in this thread who feel the urgent need to complain I say why not use your vacation time this summer and live amongst these homeless people and panhandlers and really get to know the person behind the unfair bias judgment of these people.

Peace
Chris
 
I am not very well-acquainted with the many problems which cause people to find themselves homeless or beggars or both. I am well-acquainted with the ugliness of mental illness and addiction- both common on the street. Consider what you would do for those people of they were your siblings? Would you throw money at them? (I hope not!!) Feed them? Tell them again, for the 1,000,000,000th time where they can get help or what help you are willing to give? Instead of chastising the poor father for not doing what he should do, set up an appointment with him to talk about what can be done. Perhaps he has made offers to help and has been turned down. Maybe he drives them to shelters regularly. Maybe he feeds them. Maybe he wants help with these chores? Maybe he has tried, but had no luck. Money rarely helps, though that is what they are asking for. If you can find out more about your “regulars,” do so and see what appropriate help is available. You will have to acknowledge, however, that if it is either addiction or mental illness you will not be able to help them unless they want to help themselves.

It is good that you see them as people, not as a problem or as criminal. I’d be troubled by the notice in the bulliten as well, but it might well be there for the good of those panhandlers.
 
I don’t see anyone on this thread advising anyone not to help the homeless/panhandlers.

They are saying “Don’t give cash outside the Church.”

I would say, if you want to help them, ask them what they need and bring it to Mass. Food, clothing, etc.

I myself have offered to buy panhandlers a meal. One man took me & my friends up on it. (It was outside a fast food restaurant). He came inside with us and we bought him what he wanted to eat. We were happy to do it.

Other times, I have been met with scorn (and even cursing) when offering a sandwich and a cup of coffee. Those people I regard with suspicion.
 
StJudePray4Me said:
I don’t see anyone on this thread advising anyone not to help the homeless/panhandlers.

They are saying “Don’t give cash outside the Church.”

I would say, if you want to help them, ask them what they need and bring it to Mass. Food, clothing, etc.

I myself have offered to buy panhandlers a meal. One man took me & my friends up on it. (It was outside a fast food restaurant). He came inside with us and we bought him what he wanted to eat. We were happy to do it.

Other times, I have been met with scorn (and even cursing) when offering a sandwich and a cup of coffee. Those people I regard with suspicion.
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Other times, I have been met with scorn (and even cursing) when offering a sandwich and a cup of coffee. Those people I regard with suspicion
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These people do exist but unless you remember there face you’ll never know who will be the next individual to act with the same behavior.

Not totally surprising to me in somewhat an understandable manner, most who complain about homeless panhandlers in front of the church are fearful women.

I really do see a way of eliminating the problem completely in front of the church.
And I also have a difficult time believing the local police are going to come to the rescue every-time a complaint is made by a parish priest or parish council member.

Peace
Chris
 
Kevin812 said:
For almost a year the following announcement, with variation, has appeared in our Sunday Bulletin;
Code: 
 “**Panhandling is a Class C Misdemeanor**.
There are two individuals panhandling in and around church property. We ask that you** not** give these persons any money. **Just walk away and notify a staff person or a priest of their presence. **

Panhandling is the solicitation of an individual on a street or in a public place by requesting an immediate donation of money or something of value.” (the bold is their’s)​

This is the shorter of the standard two that appears. The longer goes into the criminality of the crime.

I didn’t like the announcement when it first appeared and it continues to bother me more. I have recently written a letter to our pastor and I hope Father gets back to me. I would like to offer suggestions of things as individuals and as a parish we can do. Have others on CAF or know of experiences in the parishes of how to respond to these ‘panhandlers’ that meet our Gospel calling?

Peace.
Click to expand...
You can redirect these people to the local soup kitchen, or to the staff at the Parish.

I know from experience (currently working at our Cathedral) that some people will beg for money, walk to the liquor store and even come to the Church to try and drink! Many of the people begging for money around this Church are people who have fallen into alcoholism and regularly talk to the priests about it. But they usually also stop asking for money when they’re on the up and up. But you can tell when they’ve fallen back to drink when they start panhandling again.

The best thing that you can do with your spare change for these people is to give it to one of the charities tied to your parish (like at ours we have a St. Vincent group.)

Hopefully this comes across as charitable as I intend it to be.

-Prophesy
 
centurionguard said:
I have mixed views about a number of points brought up in this thread.

Are all Homeless people and Panhandlers criminals? Should they be treated in such regard? No I think not.

Perhaps it’s because I reside in

Peace
Chris
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the pastor in OP was not making a judgment about all panhandlers, who by the way are not all homeless, but about specific persons, known to the parish staff, whom they have attempted to help in the past, who are targeting churchgoers in a manner that violates local law and endangers parishioners.He is not setting a policy about how all those in need are judged and treated, but reacting to a specific problem.
 
puzzleannie said:
the pastor in OP was not making a judgment about all panhandlers, who by the way are not all homeless, but about specific persons, known to the parish staff, whom they have attempted to help in the past, who are targeting churchgoers in a manner that violates local law and endangers parishioners.He is not setting a policy about how all those in need are judged and treated, but reacting to a specific problem.
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Just to add an additional view to my comments regarding my mixed views which were not solely directed at the the OP. Some of the points you bring emphasis to can be seen as overgeneralized depending on the situation of panhandlers seen at different parishes.

The OP’s situation is just one instance that has become heated.
In my parish the identity of the panhandlers who frequent the bottom of the main steps of the church after Mass are also known to parish staff. And yes the police had been notified on several occasions to no avail.

The problem is, is how do you get your parishioners to stop giving money to these people after it has been addressed at the Ambo by the parish priest and written in the church bulletin?
This is the crux of the matter that has to be drilled into the parishioners.
I think many of the parishioners who do give a dollar or two consciously feel guilty in someway if they don’t give.

Peace
Chris
 
Well, I know that most congregations have to protect themselves from vandals, thievery and physical harm. It’s a known fact at our congregation that “professional panhandlers” are taking advantage of well intended souls like you. Many of these panhandlers are destroying property, scaring off vulnerable people that have become victims of such persons. Father must protect church property for the sake of the community because we give to support that cause. People’s belongings have been found missing. Several break ins tied to “homeless” individuals has been reported in near proximity to their presence, etc. Frankly, I want my wife and children to be safe when the participate in parish life. I want the older folks to be protected from harm.

As a parent, which father acts as for us, we must protect our children and our possessions. We have that right and obligation. Being good stewards require such attitudes. You should be proud of you pastor for doing such things and get over any uncomfortable feelings misplaced in this matter. There are many programs in our area that our church supports and the registry is an important aspect of that charity. It prevents the wrong people from receiving help for one. I can’t tell you how the authorities in our area have already warned us about certain “panhandlers” make more money than well off professionals as a result of their deceitful activities.

The system was created for a reason…to protect the innocent. These people know about the programs but choose to hang out at churches preying off the good intentions of those naive enough to be fooled. Simply put, they make more money begging off at churches than through the system that was created to help them and protect innocent people.
 
Well, I do know that Jesus loves the poor and I do believe we should help out the poor. I suppose it depends on why these people are “panhandling”. Is it because they are so poor that they can’t afford to eat? Then why doesn’t the Church help them to get a job or help them find a food bank so they can better afford food?
 
Holly3278 said:
Well, I do know that Jesus loves the poor and I do believe we should help out the poor. I suppose it depends on why these people are “panhandling”. Is it because they are so poor that they can’t afford to eat? Then why doesn’t the Church help them to get a job or help them find a food bank so they can better afford food?
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Why do you assume that the Church isn’t doing that?

Peace

Tim
 
Hello Kevin!

I sometimes work at a place with lots and lots of traditional, charitable priests, in a big city. We often get panhandlers come in (one older man in particular goes into the church and asks for money during adoration.) The policy that I have been taught is that we direct them to the person at the Cathedral who helps these people - and we regularly send money her way in order to help these people. So we are indeed giving lots of money, but in a different way.

Why do we do it this way? Two reasons:
  1. This person knows all of them, and is able to sort out what kind of help people need: whether monetary, or help fighting their addictions.
  2. Many of the people who come in to panhandle walk obviously right past us at the desk and ask other people, because they know we will tell them to go to the Cathedral. A lot of them want to avoid this system for one reason - they know the charity coordinator will not give them money.
God Bless!
Polyphony Chick
 
One of my favorite churches was in a downtown big city, on the “wrong side” of town. You get lots of the homeless downtown anyways, but there are also a number of shelters and charities close by to serve them.

There was a homeless guy who would hang around before a certain Mass early in the evening. He talked to me, and was well-spoken, and seemed like a genuinely normal person who just needed to get on his feet. I’m normally of the opinion that it’s my duty to be charitable, and if someone wants to abuse that charity, that’s between them and God. I gave him a little money the first time-- and so of course, he’d seek me out in the future, to the point where I started to dread going to my favorite Mass because I’d feel guilty about meeting him and him expecting me to give him something. He talked about how the worst part of being homeless was how hard it was to keep clean— so the next time I saw him, I gave him a bag of toiletries, some food, and some other basics. He was polite about it, but he was like, “That’s nice-- how about some money?”

I moved away. Two years passed. I found myself back in town and wanting to attend my favorite Mass. And who should I see, but the exact same guy who had seemed like he just needed to get back on his feet, still in the exact same situation.

Since then, whenever I feel compelled to donate to a specific individual, I channel that desire to perform an act of charity through more formal routes: organizations that are structured to not just fulfill an immediate need, but also to help solve the long-term problems behind their poverty or homelessness.
 
Last Sunday there were panhandlers outside our parish doors. When we were walking in the deacon was talking with them. They appeared to be mad and not in any immediate need. They slowly walked away, but were back outside the doors after mass asking for money again. I am not sure how it was handled, but I trust the priest and the deacon did do the right thing.
 
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