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laudamus_te
Guest
Oh, it didn’t get past me! It was cute.Wow, tough room! Not one comment about my L’il Rascals ice-breaker! Another comedic jewel, lost to the ages.
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BlyssfulDreamer
Guest
Not in my opinion…and tell me this…
Why does it bother YOU what women wear to Mass? Why does it seem to nag at you? I am just curious as to how me…praying at Mass bothers*** you,*** when you should be concentrating on what Mass is all about?
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catharina
Guest
One more post. No need to leave you hanging, victimized and openly bleeding. Yes, play for sympathy, both of us. You, your dreadful accident. Perfectly true, I’m sure. Me, my rheumatoid arthritis and hypertension, also perfectly true, but must be a play for sympathy. Such thinking tends to flow form those who consider the outer appearance of things - like clothes and make themselves the “arbiters of taste and morals.” As for the linked article, it was a no-brainer and I did read it quickly - since I tend to read quickly.A play for sympathy? My, my…you are not very kind are you? You know what? When I considered going to the TLM and I called the priest he said that pants were fine. I guess he would know better than you, eh? I also go to daily Mass and God has never struck me dead for wearing pants. So…I think I will continue to wear my pants to Mass and continue to pray for small minded people like you.
Same old: American women are to be the pinnacle of good taste.
Must sign off. Much more of such attacks and I’ll vomit.
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piouswoman
Guest
I noticed it…and I liked it!Wow, tough room! Not one comment about my L’il Rascals ice-breaker! Another comedic jewel, lost to the ages.
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piouswoman
Guest
You know what? What you wear doesn’t bother me. What bothers me is the anger and animosity that is leveled against traditional Catholics who defend the *ever Catholic position *that men and women have separate and different roles as ordained by God Himself. Men and women should be distinctly different in their dress. What bothers me is narrow-mindedness and a stubborn and defiant nature. It goes against the Catholic mindset.
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BlyssfulDreamer
Guest
I have no anger towards you at all…in fact I have sympathy that someone could be so narrow minded. I am also not defiant…if the priest would have told me pants were not allowed I would have continued at my NO parish. Thankfully…a priest trumps an internet forum participant, so I will continue on as I have knowing full well that God knows what is in my heart.
As for the Catholic mindset, I might suggest that you reread some of your posts and learn, as I have…a little charity.
Now good night and you will be in my prayers.
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catharina
Guest
Well, I’m back. Caught your question, the one about “why should you believe me?” (Also must mention that NOBODY in this thread has come close to even a pretense of denying Church Teaching that men and women are made for different roles. Nice try at deflection though. Inadequate and untrue too, but nice try.) Now to answer your question:
One saint who, as a priest was disguised as a peasant in China, and who was crucified garbed as a peasant in China is Saint John Gabriel Perboyre. Here you go:
JOHN GABRIEL PERBOYRE
http://catholic-forum.com/saints/saintj39.jpg
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His brother died on a mission to China, and John Gabriel was asked to replace him. In March 1835 he sailed for China, and began his mission in Macao in June, 1836. A widespread persecution of Christians began in 1839, the same year England had attacked China. Father John Gabriel was denounced to the authorities by one of his catachumens, arrested, tried on 16 September 1839, tortured by hanging by his thumbs and flogging with bamboo rods, and condemned to death on 11 September 1840. Martyr. The first saint associated with China. Born 6 January 1802 at Le Puech, near Mongesty, Cahors diocese, southern France Died lashed to a cross on a hill named the “red mountain”, then strangled with a rope on 11 September 1840 at Ou-Tchang-Fou,
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Tietjen
Guest
Tell that to Saint Joan of Arc, to Saint Ann of Constantinople, and to Saint Apollinaris Syncletica. All three of these VERY CATHOLIC Saints wore pants. In fact, St Apollinaris Syncletica portrayed herself as a male hermit for many years. It was not until her death that the truth of the matter was revealed. When we get to Heaven, perhaps you would like to tell them how they did not live up to “the Catholic mindset.” God bless all. I have had about all I can take of this particular subject. Peace.
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catharina
Guest
“The saints inspire us with the example of their lives.”
John Gabriel, a missionary
When John Gabriel was sixteen years old, the Vincentians preached a mission in the town of Montauban, the place where John Gabriel was studying. At this early age he clearly expressed his desire: “I want to be a missionary.” Is this simply an expression of youthful enthusiasm?
John Gabriel entered the Novitiate of the Congregation of the Mission at Montauban (December, 1818). Later he continued his theological studies in Paris. At the completion of his studies, he was sent to the school at Montdidier to teach philosopghy and, since he was not of age, to await ordination. On September 23, 1826, he was ordained and sent to the major seminary at Saint Flour. In 1835, he became the assistant director at the Novitiate of Saint Lazare.
Commenting on the martyrdom of Father Clet, John Gabriel exclaimed: “What a beautiful death for Father Clet; I ask God to take my life in the same way.” Later, when Fr. Clet’s relics arrived in Paris, he told the seminarians: “Here is the robe of a martyr, the robe of Father Clet; here the rope which strangled him. Happy are we if we should share the same lot.” He then asked one of the seminarians: “Pray that I may recuperate my health, and be able to go to China and preach the Good News of Jesus Christ and die for Him.” To another seminarian he said: “Fourteen years ago I asked to go to China…I came to Saint Lazare for this reason only, to minister in China.”
The death of John’s brother Louis, who died on his way to China, only strengthened his resolve to be a missionary, “even though I feel unworthy to take his place.”
On February 2, 1835, John Gabriel’s doctor withdrew his objection and the way was opened for him to go to China.
From 1836-1840, John Gabriel centered his missionary activity in the provinces of Ho-nan and Hu-pe. During these four and a half years, he preached and catechized the christians who were persecuted and poor and separated from one another by great distances.
**Like the other missionaries, John Gabriel lived as an outcast, exposed to continual dangers and obliged to travel disguised and hidden. “Heaven is obtained through the sweat of the brow.” **
Identified with Christ
The biographers of John Gabriel Perboyre have highlighted his identification with Christ: Alter Christus, with reason he has been called another Christ. Several writings of John Gabriel have been preserved, writings in which he expressed his identification with Jesus Christ:
“I AM THE WAY: What way? The way of humility, charity, obedience, patience, perfection, happiness and the glory of heaven. If we wish to be perfect, if we wish to obtain the happiness and the glory of heaven, it is necessary to walk in this way. To persevere in this way we need a torch to enlighten the way. Christ serves as this torch because he is the truth. Jesus tells us that those who follow him no longer walk in darkness but rather have the light of life. At the same time we need strength to sustain us on the way; strength that will enable us to continually follow the Master. Again Jesus solves the problem: He is our strength. He wants to be our nourishment and to give himself to us in the Eucharist. For this reason he said: I AM THE LIFE.”
“Jesus Christ is the great teacher of knowledge; only Jesus gives the true light. All knowledge comes from him and whatever does not lead us to Jesus is vain, useless and dangerous. Only one thing is important: to know and love Jesus Christ.”
“We can only attain salvation through conformity to Jesus Christ. After our death, we will not be asked if we were scholars, if we held prominent positions, if we have had people speak favorably of us in the world. But we will be asked if we busied ourselves with the study and imitation of Jesus Christ.”
(Taken from vincenter.org/res/word/perblife.html The imitation of Christ seems to have little to do with any idea of “appropriate” clothing.)
John Gabriel, a missionary
When John Gabriel was sixteen years old, the Vincentians preached a mission in the town of Montauban, the place where John Gabriel was studying. At this early age he clearly expressed his desire: “I want to be a missionary.” Is this simply an expression of youthful enthusiasm?
John Gabriel entered the Novitiate of the Congregation of the Mission at Montauban (December, 1818). Later he continued his theological studies in Paris. At the completion of his studies, he was sent to the school at Montdidier to teach philosopghy and, since he was not of age, to await ordination. On September 23, 1826, he was ordained and sent to the major seminary at Saint Flour. In 1835, he became the assistant director at the Novitiate of Saint Lazare.
Commenting on the martyrdom of Father Clet, John Gabriel exclaimed: “What a beautiful death for Father Clet; I ask God to take my life in the same way.” Later, when Fr. Clet’s relics arrived in Paris, he told the seminarians: “Here is the robe of a martyr, the robe of Father Clet; here the rope which strangled him. Happy are we if we should share the same lot.” He then asked one of the seminarians: “Pray that I may recuperate my health, and be able to go to China and preach the Good News of Jesus Christ and die for Him.” To another seminarian he said: “Fourteen years ago I asked to go to China…I came to Saint Lazare for this reason only, to minister in China.”
The death of John’s brother Louis, who died on his way to China, only strengthened his resolve to be a missionary, “even though I feel unworthy to take his place.”
On February 2, 1835, John Gabriel’s doctor withdrew his objection and the way was opened for him to go to China.
From 1836-1840, John Gabriel centered his missionary activity in the provinces of Ho-nan and Hu-pe. During these four and a half years, he preached and catechized the christians who were persecuted and poor and separated from one another by great distances.
**Like the other missionaries, John Gabriel lived as an outcast, exposed to continual dangers and obliged to travel disguised and hidden. “Heaven is obtained through the sweat of the brow.” **
Identified with Christ
The biographers of John Gabriel Perboyre have highlighted his identification with Christ: Alter Christus, with reason he has been called another Christ. Several writings of John Gabriel have been preserved, writings in which he expressed his identification with Jesus Christ:
“I AM THE WAY: What way? The way of humility, charity, obedience, patience, perfection, happiness and the glory of heaven. If we wish to be perfect, if we wish to obtain the happiness and the glory of heaven, it is necessary to walk in this way. To persevere in this way we need a torch to enlighten the way. Christ serves as this torch because he is the truth. Jesus tells us that those who follow him no longer walk in darkness but rather have the light of life. At the same time we need strength to sustain us on the way; strength that will enable us to continually follow the Master. Again Jesus solves the problem: He is our strength. He wants to be our nourishment and to give himself to us in the Eucharist. For this reason he said: I AM THE LIFE.”
“Jesus Christ is the great teacher of knowledge; only Jesus gives the true light. All knowledge comes from him and whatever does not lead us to Jesus is vain, useless and dangerous. Only one thing is important: to know and love Jesus Christ.”
“We can only attain salvation through conformity to Jesus Christ. After our death, we will not be asked if we were scholars, if we held prominent positions, if we have had people speak favorably of us in the world. But we will be asked if we busied ourselves with the study and imitation of Jesus Christ.”
(Taken from vincenter.org/res/word/perblife.html The imitation of Christ seems to have little to do with any idea of “appropriate” clothing.)
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catharina
Guest
I would be glad to name the Community of Sisters who accepted the mission to refugee camps in Thailand following the revolution in Cambodia. However, since there are still priests, Sisters and Brothers engaged in such work (in disguise) all over the world, I’m choosing to remain silent about the facts. When some feel free to mock such sacrifice and to say that living saints should dress differently to ‘give better example’ then I have to recognize and realize the depth of ignorance of some in the Church. There are nations all around the wolrd who would (still) not allow entry to those who are obviously Catholic, yet the work of the missions continues.
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dessert
Guest
WOW you really did all this stuff? You go girl!
What do you think of split skirts, long ones?
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dessert
Guest
I love this where can I buy it?
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piouswoman
Guest
Thanks. I don’t wear split skirts simply because they are really just pants when it comes right down to it, although some have a sort of outer layer which gives the illusion of a skirt from the outside…I can’t really find a problem with that.
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piouswoman
Guest
He’s wearing long missionary garb in that picture.
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dessert
Guest
To any woman out there.
Do the clothes make the person feel like a man or woman or is it the way other people act towards you make you feel like that.
I know this is probably for another thread?
Does wearing a dress make you feel like a woman? To any woman. If it does wouldn’t wearing a gown like robe for a priest or jesuit make them feel like not a man?
Do the clothes make the person feel like a man or woman or is it the way other people act towards you make you feel like that.
I know this is probably for another thread?
Does wearing a dress make you feel like a woman? To any woman. If it does wouldn’t wearing a gown like robe for a priest or jesuit make them feel like not a man?
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daeve
Guest
… If the men here will honestly think about it, which would you be more inclined to look twice at, a woman in a tight pair of jeans or a woman in a modest skirt?
How about neatly tailored pants or a mini-skirt.
Anything can be abused or used properly. I dress very nicely and very modestly in pants, and will continue to do so.
How about neatly tailored pants or a mini-skirt.
Anything can be abused or used properly. I dress very nicely and very modestly in pants, and will continue to do so.
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daeve
Guest
How about a neatly tailored pair of pants or a mini-skirt?
Anything can be abused or used properly. I’ll continue to dress nicely and modestly in pants.
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KathleenElsie
Guest
I know I will be told off about this post. But here goes anyway.
Clothing as long as it covers the body without giving the illusion of being painted on is not immoral. Might be distracting to others but not immoral.
Clothing to deliberately look like someone of the opposite gender is not very attractive IMHO. Arguing about what others wear is not being charitable and is being judgmental of others.
The women in my family wear skirts and dresses mostly ankle length. We cover for prayer and at Mass. People are quite outspoken about us and call us the “Amish people” again this is uncharitable. Being uncharitable can go both ways. Being judgmental can go both ways. Neither is very CATHOLIC in my humble opinion.
We would never complain or tell others how to dress unless it involved nakedness in public. For this is a personal decision and between God and the person that is wearing the clothing. We are on the other side of the issue.
Charity toward others should be followed at all times IMHO. Sometimes just being quiet is the best way to end a disagreement.
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piouswoman
Guest
Women can study both sides of the argument, then come to a reasonable and educated conclusion and opinion. I would like to go on the record here as one who opts to wear only longer dresses or skirts. If others do not see it the same way, then that is their own conclusion, their own choice or decision. It does not anger me, bother me, frustrate me, or cause me any dismay in any way, shape or form.
This thread is titled “pants for women?” and I have answered “no”.
I find that those among us who defend wearing pants, seem to have to justify their reasoning to everyone else who doesn’t. If those who wish to wear pants are happy with that, then why bother arguing with those who do not?
This thread is titled “pants for women?” and I have answered “no”.
I find that those among us who defend wearing pants, seem to have to justify their reasoning to everyone else who doesn’t. If those who wish to wear pants are happy with that, then why bother arguing with those who do not?
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TMC
Guest
Wow, 100 posts on pants.
Anyone that wants to stick by skirts, or thinks they are more ladylike is fine by me. But it is not a religious question. For the first 5,500 or 5,600 years of human history almost no one wore pants. They are a lot harder to make, and harder to fit to an individual. But when they became practical to make in large numbers men wore them because they were more practical for many of the things that mostly men did. As pants became ever cheaper and women did more outside the home, pants use by women became more prevalent. Saying pants is for men is like saying driving is for men, or flying is for men, or the many other human things that were initially used mostly by men. It just makes no sense historically.
The better question is this – why do all westerners agree that dresses are for women??
Anyone that wants to stick by skirts, or thinks they are more ladylike is fine by me. But it is not a religious question. For the first 5,500 or 5,600 years of human history almost no one wore pants. They are a lot harder to make, and harder to fit to an individual. But when they became practical to make in large numbers men wore them because they were more practical for many of the things that mostly men did. As pants became ever cheaper and women did more outside the home, pants use by women became more prevalent. Saying pants is for men is like saying driving is for men, or flying is for men, or the many other human things that were initially used mostly by men. It just makes no sense historically.
The better question is this – why do all westerners agree that dresses are for women??
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