Pants for women?

[BlyssfulDreamer]

I find that those among us who defend wearing pants, seem to have to justify their reasoning to everyone else who doesn’t. If those who wish to wear pants are happy with that, then why bother arguing with those who do not?

Piouswoman…your comment below says alot (when someone asked about banning pants) and when people simply explained to you why they have decided to wear “pants” your comments were far from kind. I am glad that you have seen the light. Doesn’t it make you feel better to just let others make their own choice without judgments given? Thank you.

I would if I could.

 

[piouswoman]

Piouswoman…your comment below says alot (when someone asked about banning pants) and when people simply explained to you why they have decided to wear “pants” your comments were far from kind. I am glad that you have seen the light. Doesn’t it make you feel better to just let others make their own choice without judgments given? Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by piouswoman View Post
I would if I could.

Oh, and what about the lack of charity that so many here love to cry about? Is your post charitable? Is it charitable to take quotes out of context? I think not. So permit me to point to what I said later down the page from the above quote:

“Of course when I state that I would ban them, we all know that it is just wishful thinking on my part, simply because I don’t have that ability to do so. Thank you for respecting my personal view.”

Saying that my comments are far from kind is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black.

Now wouldn’t you feel better if you posted comments in a more responsible manner? Thank you.

 

[lak611]

Wow, 100 posts on pants.

Anyone that wants to stick by skirts, or thinks they are more ladylike is fine by me. But it is not a religious question. For the first 5,500 or 5,600 years of human history almost no one wore pants. They are a lot harder to make, and harder to fit to an individual. But when they became practical to make in large numbers men wore them because they were more practical for many of the things that mostly men did. As pants became ever cheaper and women did more outside the home, pants use by women became more prevalent. Saying pants is for men is like saying driving is for men, or flying is for men, or the many other human things that were initially used mostly by men. It just makes no sense historically.

I used to work in a chemical company. The OSHA regulations required all employees in the production area to wear pants and steel-toed shoes. By the way, the men were not allowed to wear beards, since a beard would have prohibited a proper seal of a respirator. OSHA regulations also required all employees to be fitted for and use respirators when working with hazardous materials. None of the men complained that lack of a beard was less manly.

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Piouswoman…your post#27…clearly states the following. It was **not **taken out of context…because that is the ONLY thing you posted in that message.

To this question:
Who has banned them?

You then answered:

I would if I could.

It is not being uncharitable to show you your owns words.

I don’t think wearing pant makes you any less of a good faithful Catholic anymore than I think wearing skirts, dresses or long skirts makes you** more **of a good faithful Catholic.

 

[piouswoman]

Piouswoman…your post#27…clearly states the following. It was **not **taken out of context…because that is the ONLY thing you posted in that message.

To this question:
Who has banned them?

You then answered:

I would if I could.

It is not being uncharitable to show you your owns words.

I don’t think wearing pant makes you any less of a good faithful Catholic anymore than I think wearing skirts, dresses or long skirts makes you** more **of a good faithful Catholic.

And I further explained that comment…please back off. I am tired of the incessant badgering.

 

[catharina]

He’s wearing long missionary garb in that picture.

Seriously, are you having problems with visual perception?
Or are you simply inclined to grab you own random thoughts and blurt them out as “truth” - because I assure you this set of clothing was not issued by Saint John Gabriel’s community. You can wirte to the Congrgastion of the Mission in Paris/Rome or take it to Vatican. I’m sure your observation of “truth” will clear things up fast. Father Perboyre wore the clothing that was available to him as a priest in his time and place.

… as I said in Post 89 - and you very clearly didn’t read it:

" …

On February 2, 1835, John Gabriel’s doctor withdrew his objection and the way was opened for him to go to China.

From 1836-1840, John Gabriel centered his missionary activity in the provinces of Ho-nan and Hu-pe. During these four and a half years, he preached and catechized the christians who were persecuted and poor and separated from one another by great distances.

**Like the other missionaries, John Gabriel lived as an outcast, exposed to continual dangers and obliged to travel disguised and hidden. “Heaven is obtained through the sweat of the brow.” **

Identified with Christ

The biographers of John Gabriel Perboyre have highlighted his identification with Christ: Alter Christus, with reason he has been called another Christ. Several writings of John Gabriel have been preserved, writings in which he expressed his identification with Jesus Christ:

“I AM THE WAY: What way? The way of humility, charity, obedience, patience, perfection, happiness and the glory of heaven. If we wish to be perfect, if we wish to obtain the happiness and the glory of heaven, it is necessary to walk in this way. To persevere in this way we need a torch to enlighten the way. Christ serves as this torch because he is the truth. Jesus tells us that those who follow him no longer walk in darkness but rather have the light of life. At the same time we need strength to sustain us on the way; strength that will enable us to continually follow the Master. Again Jesus solves the problem: He is our strength. He wants to be our nourishment and to give himself to us in the Eucharist. For this reason he said: I AM THE LIFE.”

“Jesus Christ is the great teacher of knowledge; only Jesus gives the true light. All knowledge comes from him and whatever does not lead us to Jesus is vain, useless and dangerous. Only one thing is important: to know and love Jesus Christ.”

“We can only attain salvation through conformity to Jesus Christ. After our death, we will not be asked if we were scholars, if we held prominent positions, if we have had people speak favorably of us in the world. But we will be asked if we busied ourselves with the study and imitation of Jesus Christ.”

Taken from vincenter.org/res/word/perblife.html

(The imitation of Christ seems to have little to do with any idea of “appropriate” clothing.)

 

[catharina]

He’s wearing long missionary garb in that picture.

In addition, “piouswoman” I’ll re-post # 90 too. It was written to address your question about the clothes of Sisters who had to leave aside their Holy Habits to serve in refugee camps. Your point: they’d have done more good if they’d worn their Habits. All would have been happy to wear their Habits; each did so when her two years of evangelical work was completed.

Will I NAME that community for you - as you implied I should.

No. I won’t name it. You can believe it or not. I no longer care.

Post # 90

“I would be glad to name the Community of Sisters who accepted the mission to refugee camps in Thailand following the revolution in Cambodia. However, since there are still priests, Sisters and Brothers engaged in such work (in disguise) all over the world, I’m choosing to remain silent about the facts. When some feel free to mock such sacrifice and to say that living saints should dress differently to ‘give better example’ then I have to recognize and realize the depth of ignorance of some in the Church. There are nations all around the wolrd who would (still) not allow entry to those who are obviously Catholic, yet the work of the missions continues.”

 

[piouswoman]

Seriously, are you having problems with visual perception?
Or are you simply inclined to grab you own random thoughts and blurt them out as “truth” - because I assure you this set of clothing was not issued by Saint John Gabriel’s community. You can wirte to the Congrgastion of the Mission in Paris/Rome or take it to Vatican. I’m sure your observation of “truth” will clear things up fast. Father Perboyre wore the clothing that was available to him as a priest in his time and place.

… as I said in Post 89 - and you very clearly didn’t read it:

" …

On February 2, 1835, John Gabriel’s doctor withdrew his objection and the way was opened for him to go to China.

From 1836-1840, John Gabriel centered his missionary activity in the provinces of Ho-nan and Hu-pe. During these four and a half years, he preached and catechized the christians who were persecuted and poor and separated from one another by great distances.

**Like the other missionaries, John Gabriel lived as an outcast, exposed to continual dangers and obliged to travel disguised and hidden. “Heaven is obtained through the sweat of the brow.” **

Identified with Christ

The biographers of John Gabriel Perboyre have highlighted his identification with Christ: Alter Christus, with reason he has been called another Christ. Several writings of John Gabriel have been preserved, writings in which he expressed his identification with Jesus Christ:

“I AM THE WAY: What way? The way of humility, charity, obedience, patience, perfection, happiness and the glory of heaven. If we wish to be perfect, if we wish to obtain the happiness and the glory of heaven, it is necessary to walk in this way. To persevere in this way we need a torch to enlighten the way. Christ serves as this torch because he is the truth. Jesus tells us that those who follow him no longer walk in darkness but rather have the light of life. At the same time we need strength to sustain us on the way; strength that will enable us to continually follow the Master. Again Jesus solves the problem: He is our strength. He wants to be our nourishment and to give himself to us in the Eucharist. For this reason he said: I AM THE LIFE.”

“Jesus Christ is the great teacher of knowledge; only Jesus gives the true light. All knowledge comes from him and whatever does not lead us to Jesus is vain, useless and dangerous. Only one thing is important: to know and love Jesus Christ.”

“We can only attain salvation through conformity to Jesus Christ. After our death, we will not be asked if we were scholars, if we held prominent positions, if we have had people speak favorably of us in the world. But we will be asked if we busied ourselves with the study and imitation of Jesus Christ.”

Taken from vincenter.org/res/word/perblife.html

(The imitation of Christ seems to have little to do with any idea of “appropriate” clothing.)

And all of this off topic extravaganza posting proves what? That I have problems with visual perceptions? Thank you for your very “Catholic-like” treatment.

I have read the Imitation of Christ, and it seems to have little to do with the way you have treated me and others.

 

[catharina]

And all of this off topic extravaganza posting proves what? That I have problems with visual perceptions? Thank you for your very “Catholic-like” treatment.

I have read the Imitation of Christ, and it seems to have little to do with the way you have treated me and others.

I have restrained myself in addressing you to a point of personal revulsion and illness. As you said to me - perhaps you need to grow a thicker skin. DO NOT MOCK THE SAINTS EVER.

 

[piouswoman]

I have restrained myself in addressing you to a point of personal revulsion and illness. As you said to me - perhaps you need to grow a thicker skin. DO NOT MOCK THE SAINTS EVER.

You are quite livid and angry, please explain the above. When did I say you need to grow a thicker skin, and when did I mock the Saints? Please, this begs explanation.

 

[latinmass]

I don’t think it is too much of an assumption to say we are talking about women wearing pants in Mass. Not working, or in recreation. Of course it is more lady like to wear a dress (modest certainly) in any time in history for women. A women should not wear pants, nor a man jeans if at all possible. We need to dress as respectful as possible in whatever gender God has made us in Mass. Because it is common for women to dress in pants anywhere these days should have no bearing on proper dress for a man or women in Mass. And yes, God does care on what example we are setting for the Church and the world in every aspect of our lives, dress is no exception.

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

I am not trying to be a wisenheimer here…but I would truly like for anyone who advocates women ONLY wearing dresses to Mass…do you have anything that has been written in the Bible where it* specifically *says that women should only wear dresses? I would really like to see it and what it says. Does it state anywhere that women must wear dresses ONLY. Much appreciated.

I would also like to ask…am I less of a good faithful Catholic because I wear womens’ pants…NOT men’s pants…not my husband’s pants…if you think I am please state why with references as to why.

 

[holdencaulfield]

Are TC girls allowed to wear pants?
And:
flickr.com/photos/inquisitorgeneralis/47822495/
Isn’t keeping pictures of girls adultry?

What’s wrong with the picture? I don’t get it. It’s not like it’s obscene or something.

 

[holdencaulfield]

I am not trying to be a wisenheimer here…but I would truly like for anyone who advocates women ONLY wearing dresses to Mass…do you have anything that has been written in the Bible where it* specifically *says that women should only wear dresses? I would really like to see it and what it says. Does it state anywhere that women must wear dresses ONLY. Much appreciated.

I would also like to ask…am I less of a good faithful Catholic because I wear womens’ pants…NOT men’s pants…not my husband’s pants…if you think I am please state why with references as to why.

So is it wrong for men to wear womens pants?

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

And I further explained that comment…please back off. I am tired of the incessant badgering.

Just reminding you of your own words…nothing more and nothing less.

 

[holdencaulfield]

St. Joan of Arc wore pants.

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

So is it wrong for men to wear womens pants?

*What? * LOL…that is up to them…but where I buy my womens’s pants/slacks…they are in the WOMEN’s section…I don’t buy out of the mens department.

IMO…that was kind of a silly question.

 

[latinmass]

I am not trying to be a wisenheimer here…but I would truly like for anyone who advocates women ONLY wearing dresses to Mass…do you have anything that has been written in the Bible where it* specifically *says that women should only wear dresses? I would really like to see it and what it says. Does it state anywhere that women must wear dresses ONLY. Much appreciated.

I would also like to ask…am I less of a good faithful Catholic because I wear womens’ pants…NOT men’s pants…not my husband’s pants…if you think I am please state why with references as to why.

You mean a specific bible verse like women should pray with their head covered in the assembly. There is nothing that specific. The Church as you does not even require that anymore, and it doesn’t get any more clear in the bible. But, there is definite reference to men not to be effeminate, which is surely true for the opposite as well. I’m sure you look fine in your pant suit, the point is the scale is moving to blurring the lines between men and women which we in the Church should not fall into. Would you disagree that a women in a modest dress is always more ladylike than women in jeans?

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Would you disagree that a women in a modest dress is always more ladylike than women in jeans?

I don’t think we were talking about jeans…I don’t own any…I am specifically speaking about nice dress slacks…and IMO and that is my opinion only, I think a woman can look every bit as ladylike in a nice pair of dress pants as a dress…and every bit as respectable and dignified.

 

[catharina]

You mean a specific bible verse like women should pray with their head covered in the assembly. There is nothing that specific. The Church as you does not even require that anymore, and it doesn’t get any more clear in the bible. But, there is definite reference to men not to be effeminate, which is surely true for the opposite as well. I’m sure you look fine in your pant suit, the point is the scale is moving to blurring the lines between men and women which we in the Church should not fall into. Would you disagree that a women in a modest dress is always more ladylike than women in jeans?

You sound rather reasonable. Do you understand that you are taking your stand according to standards of WESTERN clothing? Do you realize that across the world (not West) there are cultures where men and women wear pants; others where men wear skirts? To attempt a generalization such as “defemininizing women” is so far removed from the facts of the living in this world. Most of the poor are grateful to have any clothes to put on their bodies. The men in Sri Lanka and the Pacific Islands wear skirts (then there’s Scotland!) and the CHURCH does not expect them to “get Western” in their apparel. Ditto for all the women in China (the largest nation on earth); all women wear PANTS in China.

I have to wonder why people keep insisting that the “fashion sense” of Western culture is to rule the Church. Please say you understand this point!