Papa Ben's Novus Ordo 2.0

[I_Believe]

I’ll Bet You Read the New Oxford Review. I’ll bet you would be surprised to know that I do to.

Funny you should mention the NOR. I googled the name of the most wonderful priest I have ever met in my life a couple of nights ago. On the NOR site, there was a letter written by him, which brought tears to my eyes.

I began serving the “old Mass” as an altar boy in 1927. I am now 88 years old, 62 years as a priest. As a lad, knowing the perfect recitations of all the Latin Mass responses, I dealt with priests of every age and devotion and I do not recall any who deliberately mumbled their prayers. The churches were not air-conditioned in those days and in the hot summer days it was not uncommon to omit the sermon; Low Mass might last for only 20 minutes, and Communions were much fewer in those days. Now with the Novus Ordo, I have attended Mass in 10 minutes. A possible scandal.

The only scandal I can recall in the old days was people sleeping during the sermon. Nobody complained about the Eucharistic fast from midnight; nobody complained about Communion on the tongue or about the Latin. In fact, we were proud of the Latin we knew. Non-Catholics marveled at the piety and the reverence of the congregation and the head-coverings of the women. Those were the glory days of the Church when our Catholic faith was a family thing, a treasure we prized. Our faith was so much a part of our life that it colored our moods, shaped our social activities, influenced our style of dress, and flavored our conversation. How many families can make the same claim today?

Last Sunday I experienced what perhaps was the greatest joy of my priesthood. I could scarcely contain myself. Indeed, my cup runneth over. I celebrated the Tridentine Latin Mass with a congregation of two hundred people. It was like a repetition of my First Holy Mass 56 years ago. It was a Missa Cantata — those sacred Gregorian melodies so fitting for worship: the solemn Trinity Preface, the solemn Pater Noster, the Holy Gospel, and the Orations.

My daily vernacular Mass has been a joy in my life, but there was always something about this Tridentine Latin Mass that went beyond all telling. I’ve found something that I had lost some 35 years ago. All those years my heart ached for the Latin Mass that I had lost, always hoping that some day, please God, I would find it. Last Sunday I found it. And like the widow of the Gospel who found her lost coin and who called in her neighbors to rejoice with her, now I was the one who wanted to call in the whole world to share in my joy. It was like being away from home all these years and always hoping that some day the permission for me would arrive to return home and share again with my dear ones the joys of long ago. It was home sweet home again. My joy knows no bounds.

My humble and ineffable thanks to our good Holy Father, Pope John Paul II, the Good Shepherd who went out looking for all those abandoned sheep to lead us back home again — to Rome, sweet home.

Would I go back to the new Mass? No way!

Rev. Charles Schoenbaechler, C.R.
Louisville, Kentucky

newoxfordreview.org/letters.jsp?did=1004-letters

Fr Charles was in Bermuda for thirty years before being sent home by his bishop for being “Too traditional”. He was told after returning to do what he wanted, and he is. He’s 92 now.

I love him.

 

[I_Believe]

What will the “new” new mass be called? Novus novus ordo? OOF?

The Ordinary Forms. They’ll never quit customizing it.

I’m sure BXVI version will be a better one though.

 

[Sepharad]

Funny you should mention the NOR. I googled the name of the most wonderful priest I have ever met in my life a couple of nights ago. On the NOR site, there was a letter written by him, which brought tears to my eyes.

newoxfordreview.org/letters.jsp?did=1004-letters

Fr Charles was in Bermuda for thirty years before being sent home by his bishop for being “Too traditional”. He was told after returning to do what he wanted, and he is. He’s 92 now.

I love him.

I just finished reading his letter…it brought tears to my eyes too, I could “feel” the good feelings he had from being able to return to the Traditions he knew as a young man, it really came through from his words! Much of what he said echoes what my aunt told me about her own feelings re: the TLM.

BTW just out of curiosity, when did they change the eucharistic fast? My aunt fasts from midnight before she goes to the TLM, is this not done anymore with the new mass?

 

[I_Believe]

I just finished reading his letter…it brought tears to my eyes too, I could “feel” the good feelings he had from being able to return to the Traditions he knew as a young man, it really came through from his words! Much of what he said echoes what my aunt told me about her own feelings re: the TLM.

BTW just out of curiosity, when did they change the eucharistic fast? My aunt fasts from midnight before she goes to the TLM, is this not done anymore with the new mass?

I thought it was just me lol.
The man is a Saint.
I’m very fortunate to live in Louisville, where I can attend his Masses. perhaps your Aunt will enjoy reading a copy of Fr’s letter ?

As far as the fast, I believe the 1983 code of canon law changed it to one hour before receiving communion. I prefer the “midnight before” guideline.

 

[ethelzguy]

Restoration of the TLM as the only Mass is the only way to fix the crisis in the Church and liturgy.

So, restoring the TLM is going to change all those Catholics’ minds who use contraceptives, or miss Sunday Mass, or wear tank tops to Church, etc, etc, etc…?

Not likely. If the Latin language was capable of curing all of society’s ill, Bill Gates would have been including it with Windows software by now…

 

[ethelzguy]

St. Rafael,

I think it’s great that at 25 you have done the amount of studying you have. However, reading about it and living it are two entirely different things. Just as I know about the depression, I cannot appreciate those times and what life was like because I was not around then. Same with the church. Unless you actually lived the pre-council church you cannot understand it. Certainly by no means were things bad back then, just different. The church is constantly changing whether we like it or not. For a while yes some things were lost (exposition, stations, etc) and not because the council said stop because it didn’t and not because a few priests decided to stop them. The people them selves stopped coming. Those early days were not only great turmoil in the church but in society. The “establishement” (church, government, etc) were all despised and abandoned by many (a whole other story). I worked in parishes during those times as a musician/liturgist and believe me we tried everything we could think of to get people to come out for the devotions…and they just didn’t. By the mid 80’s we just gave up. But low and behold in the last few years as people age especially they beging to see the value of some of the “old” ways and now we see popular devotion making a nice come back. Believe me, the attendance drop and participation in devotions had already begun before the council. Change is inevitable and mostly unwanted and just when we think things are ok something else will come about. The Holy Spirit knows what he’s doing so we all have to stop playing God and let God take care of things. Remember the documents of the council are magesterial teaching and therefore must be obeyed. There are always problems after councils which take decades to overcome. The church will survive as it has for 2000 years, if it doesn’t than everthing christians have believed for 2000 years is a joke…and I think this in not the case. PAX

Amen. Life isn’t lived in a book or on the internet. Reading Church documents doesn’t make you a papal adivsor any more than reading medical books makes you a physician.

 

[I_Believe]

So, restoring the TLM is going to change all those Catholics’ minds who use contraceptives, or miss Sunday Mass, or wear tank tops to Church, etc, etc, etc…?

Let their kind be anathema ! Who needs 'em ?

 

[Sepharad]

I thought it was just me lol.
The man is a Saint.
I’m very fortunate to live in Louisville, where I can attend his Masses. perhaps your Aunt will enjoy reading a copy of Fr’s letter ?

As far as the fast, I believe the 1983 code of canon law changed it to one hour before receiving communion. I prefer the “midnight before” guideline.

I was thinking the same thing, which is why I printed it out for her!

Thanks for the update on the one hour thing…the only info I have on the CC is what I know from my family, and they’re all what I call “pre-V2” so I know very little of what the post-V2 church does (except for the most outrageous I guess, or what I read on here!)

 

[I_Believe]

Amen. Life isn’t lived in a book or on the internet. Reading Church documents doesn’t make you a papal adivsor any more than reading medical books makes you a physician.

Where else are we going to find the Truth ? The holmilies we hear from most pulpits ? With few exceptions, good luck finding it there.

 

[PatrickJT914]

25 is not exactly an infant or child.

Priests were being ordained to priesthood at this age over forty years ago when we actually had seminarians packing the seminaries with real faith and belief in orthodoxy.

Men were starting their families at this age and so on. This is beyond the college years.

I hold a B.A. and have studied Catholicism and Christianity at the University level.

I know about Modernism and traditionalism by extensive study of Church history, doctrine, and dogma. I read various Trad newspapers and magazines and have read all materials ranging from Modernist, liberal, concervative, Trad, neo-Catholic, and even the Sede people.

Catholic theologians and saints have warned about the threat of Modernism for decades.

I have read and recommend the writings of the Popes from the late 19th and early 20th centuries because they understood Modernism better than anyone.

The Syllabus of Errors from Pope Pius IX
Pascendi Dominici Gregis encyclical of Pope Pius X are the two biggest documents against Modernism.

I grew up with the Novus Ordo my whole life, but started attending the TLM, the Mass of all time, last year. Deo Gratias

Hi saint rafael,

Thank you for responding to my post.I hope I don’t insult you. I stand corrected. That’s very impressive. All that studying must’ve been very exhaustting and hard to do. I salute you on your resolve.

But may I give you a some words of advice. Actually their not mine. I’m only repeating them. Head knowledge is important, but do not neglect your heart. Remember the Pharisees and the scribes how educated in the law their were? But they neglected their hearts. They became rigid, cold, unmoveable,judgemental, unmerciful, self-righteous, holier-than-thou, and so on. They condemned Jesus when he did something on the Sabbath. Which was against the strict Jewish law. But Jesus said he was Lord of the Sabbath. Also said that the Sabbath was made for man.

Back to the “HEART OF THE MATTER”. The heart is alive, emotions come from it, love grows, burns, compassion, understanding etc. These words come from the bible. So don’t allow the head smarts or the rigidity of the law prevent you from seeing that the reforms of Vatican II were to bring a fresh air into the Church by the Holy Spirit. The way John XXIII mentioned before he convened the V2. The Vatican Council documents and post documents did not do any really new. What they did so to RESTORE earlier church practices (Before Trent Council 1545-1563 ) And adapted them to modern times. Examples: RCIA is a restored practice of religious instruction. The title is modern. Deacons are a restored order. The name Permanent Deacon is a modern. Communion in the hand is a restored practice. Communion under both species is a restored method of the reception of communion.

 

[I_Believe]

Hi saint rafael,

Communion in the hand is a restored practice.

'cept we now have Pope who prefers kneeling on the tongue.

Springtime is here Patrick.

 

[ethelzguy]

Where else are we going to find the Truth ? The holmilies we hear from most pulpits ? With few exceptions, good luck finding it there.

Going to Mass is like so many other things in life. You get out of it what you put into it.

If you go looking for abuse and convinced that the homily is going to stink, then that’s what you’ll get…

Or, as the computer nerds used to say back in the XT/AT days…“garbage in, garbage out”.

 

[estesbob]

Funny you should mention the NOR. I googled the name of the most wonderful priest I have ever met in my life a couple of nights ago. On the NOR site, there was a letter written by him, which brought tears to my eyes.

newoxfordreview.org/letters.jsp?did=1004-letters

Fr Charles was in Bermuda for thirty years before being sent home by his bishop for being “Too traditional”. He was told after returning to do what he wanted, and he is. He’s 92 now.

I love him.

I enjoy the magazine a lot and although I dont agree with everything they print I do for the most part.

 

[I_Believe]

Going to Mass is like so many other things in life. You get out of it what you put into it.

If you go looking for abuse and convinced that the homily is going to stink, then that’s what you’ll get…

Or, as the computer nerds used to say back in the XT/AT days…“garbage in, garbage out”.

I agree with all you say here. I’ve finally learned to avoid any distraction or tendency to judge at the weekday Novus Ordos I assist at.

 

[I_Believe]

I enjoy the magazine a lot and although I dont agree with everything they print I do for the most part.

I’ve got it bookmarked. I’ll have to check it out

 

[Tommy_Joe]

I support the Holy Father doing anything he can to make the New Mass traditional, but in the end it is a road to nowhere.

Like the saying goes, you can put lipstick on a pig and dress it up, but in the end, it still is a pig.

Why do you need a new Mass for a new Mass? A reform for a reform?

If the New Mass had been great, there would be no reason for another New Mass.

The Novus Ordo Mass of 1970 was a miserable failure, a revolution, and brought in a watered down Protestant flavor that gave us a Protestantized faith.

Restoration of the TLM as the only Mass is the only way to fix the crisis in the Church and liturgy.

Great post,…I couldn’t agree more.

The New Oxford Review certainly isn’t for every one, it pulls no punches, it’s probably the only periodical that I sit down to read within minutes of finding it in the mailbox!
WARNING: If you absolutely love that Novus Ordo and have a closed mind, reading the first two pages will probably get your blood pressure up.

 

[PatrickJT914]

I thought it was just me lol.
The man is a Saint.
I’m very fortunate to live in Louisville, where I can attend his Masses. perhaps your Aunt will enjoy reading a copy of Fr’s letter ?

As far as the fast, I believe the 1983 code of canon law changed it to one hour before receiving communion. I prefer the “midnight before” guideline.

Hi I Believe,

I’d like to give you a little information you may have missed. It’s about the Eucharistic Fast. Prior to 1953 the midnight fast was in place which included WATER and MEDICINE. But of course that excluded viaticum. In 1953 and again in 1957, Pope Pius XII reduced the time to three hours from solid food and alcholic drink (from before Mass for the priest and from before Communion for the laity); non-alcoholic drink, one hour; water no longer included in the fast. In 1964 Pope Paul VI further reduced the fast to one hour, including all food and drink, allowing water and medicine any time. In 1973 the fast was reduced to fifteen minutes for the sick and elderly, including those attending them if one hour would be too difficult. The rule was changed in 1983 by Pope John Paul II for only the sick, elderly and those attending them the fast is not binding.

 

[JReducation]

Hi I Believe,

I’d like to give you a little information you may have missed. It’s about the Eucharistic Fast. Prior to 1953 the midnight fast was in place which included WATER and MEDICINE. But of course that excluded viaticum. In 1953 and again in 1957, Pope Pius XII reduced the time to three hours from solid food and alcholic drink (from before Mass for the priest and from before Communion for the laity); non-alcoholic drink, one hour; water no longer included in the fast. In 1964 Pope Paul VI further reduced the fast to one hour, including all food and drink, allowing water and medicine any time. In 1973 the fast was reduced to fifteen minutes for the sick and elderly, including those attending them if one hour would be too difficult. The rule was changed in 1983 by Pope John Paul II for only the sick, elderly and those attending them the fast is not binding.

The fast is not binding for a priest who has to celebrate two masses back to back. He may eat between masses.

JR

 

[PatrickJT914]

'cept we now have Pope who prefers kneeling on the tongue.

Springtime is here Patrick.

Hello again I Believe,

Maybe Springtime is here for you, but have all the flowers opened yet? Pardon my attempt at some lighthearted humor. If you’re happy at what the Pope did, well I’m glad for you as a fellow Catholic. The important things we still have a healthy Holy Father and the Eucharist.

Actually you know that the Pope is the Bishop of Rome as well. So if he wanted to change something in his diocese he can without it being binding in others dioceses. Since, the option in the hand depends on whatever the Archbishop or Bishop decides for their particular See.

 

[EasterJoy]

'cept we now have Pope who prefers kneeling on the tongue.

People keep saying that like its a good thing. Sounds a bit sadistic to me.

PS to the OP: “Papa Ben”? He’s not literally a German Shepherd.