Papal candidates - Short List?

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I pray that the Holy Spirit gifts the church with a man who is loving, joyful, peaceful, patient, kind, generous, faithful, gentle, disciplined, and without guile: In other words, a true saint that stands in stark and vivid contrast to the world of sin which will no doubt seek his , and the church he serves, destruction.
BEAUTIFUL!

I hate the discussion taking the focus off of the individual and discussing what color his skin or where he comes form. I think “identity politics” has been a DISASTER in this country and I hope it does not impact the Church.

Lisa
 
I would love to see Raymond Cardinal Burke elected. Cardinal Burke has been such a bastion of Catholicism in recent years and has been such a model for young men like myself to follow.

I do think, however, that people are overlooking one man - Angelo Cardinal Bagnasco, one year junior of Cardinal Scola. Bagnasco is the archbishop of Genoa and, like Burke, has been very involved with the Extraordinary Form. Likewise, His Eminence is very orthodox in social teachings. This added to the fact that he is Italian and he isn’t old as far as Cardinals go (seventy). I think he has a fighting chance.
 
In case that Tribune link is broken at some point, here is the list for quick reference. The link provides good profiles on each of them.

Joao Braz de Aviz - Brazil
Timothy Dolan – United States
Marc Ouellet - Canada
Gianfranco Ravasi - Italy
Leonardo Sandri - Argentina
Odilo Pedro Scherer - Brazil
Christoph Schoenborn - Austria
Angelo Scola - Italy
Luis Tagle - Philippines
Peter Turkson - Ghana
 
Composite rankings from a variety of gambling sites, summarized by OddsChecker:
Marc Ouellet (7-2)
Peter Turkson
Francis Arinze
Leonardo Sandri
Angelo Scola
Gianfranco Ravasi
Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga
Angelo Bagnasco
Tadisco Bertone
Claudio Hummes
Agnostino Vallini
Albert Malcolm Ranjith
Antonio Canizares Llovera
Christoph von Schonborn
Mauro Piacenza
Timothy Dolan
Raymond Burke
Camillo Ruini
Francisco Javier Errazuriz Ossa
Norberto Rivera Carrera
Renato Martino (40-1)
 
BEAUTIFUL!

I hate the discussion taking the focus off of the individual and discussing what color his skin or where he comes form. I think “identity politics” has been a DISASTER in this country and I hope it does not impact the Church.

Lisa
I see what you’re saying and I agree for the most part. There is something to be said however, for the idea that having a non European Pope (assuming he’s equally orthodox and qualified) who non Europeans can better identify with. I’d be ecstatic if there was an American (US) Pope, but that won’t happen for practical reasons (even though it isn’t like there aren’t any qualified candidates). To put it bluntly since the US is the last super power, there would be accusations (especially from Muslims) that the Catholic Church is in league with the US and that wouldn’t help anyone.
 
While everyone else is putting up there wish list, here is mine:
  1. Above all orthodox
  2. Someone who is not a Cardinal
    (The idea that any cardinal does not want to be Pope is a joke, IMO. I am not saying they are not good and holy men; only that none of them rose to power as a Cardinal by accident.)
  3. Someone with real humility that will take up the title ‘servant of God’s servants’ in truth
  4. Someone who will lead ALL Catholics and not just the conservative ones nor only the liberal ones.
  5. Someone who will let dioceses chose their own Bishops with minimal interference. (Trust but verify.)
  6. Someone who understands and is very capable of politics, but disdains it.
  7. Above all orthodox.
 
Considering that condition, where the Church in the Southern half of the world is growing no matter what, I would say we need a forceful, Western European or American advocate for conservative faith in the modern world. Someone who can stand right up and speak on topics of culture and government and mass media that are fueling the secularist surge.
I cannot agree more. I think it’s absurd that the West (Europe/US/Canada) is being ignored. You are correct. For years the Catholic populations in Asia, Africa, Latin America have been self-sustaining. It’s the industrialized world that is most at risk and which also has the most likelihood of becoming a more dominant force, culturally, than countries & continents whose residents are struggling for survival.

In fact, I think the religious crisis in the Western World is an emergency, begging for committed leadership.

And btw, BXVI recently articulated just that very sense of urgency about rapidly accelerating western religious decline toward the gutter of secularism.
 
Considering all of the current Cardinal electors were appointed by JPII and BXVI, I don’t think you have to worry about that.
The first person on the Tribune’s fabricated “short list” is supposedly a liberation theologian. I’m just going by the summary, which may or may not be accurate.
 
  1. Someone who is not a Cardinal
    (The idea that any cardinal does not want to be Pope is a joke, IMO. I am not saying they are not good and holy men; only that none of them rose to power as a Cardinal by accident.)
Both JPII and BXVI were cardinals before they were elected and, by all accounts, neither one wanted the appointment. Pope Benedict actually tried to retire both when JPII appointed him to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and when he was elected Pope.
  1. Someone who will let dioceses chose their own Bishops with minimal interference. (Trust but verify.)
I don’t think cannon law allows for that.
 
I cannot agree more. I think it’s absurd that the West (Europe/US/Canada) is being ignored. You are correct. For years the Catholic populations in Asia, Africa, Latin America have been self-sustaining. It’s the industrialized world that is most at risk and which also has the most likelihood of becoming a more dominant force, culturally, than countries & continents whose residents are struggling for survival.

In fact, I think the religious crisis in the Western World is an emergency, begging for committed leadership.

And btw, BXVI recently articulated just that very sense of urgency about rapidly accelerating western religious decline toward the gutter of secularism.
Pope Benedict is from Germany the Catholic faith there still declined during his papacy, It doesn’t follow that if you elect a Pope from a region/country, it’ll reinforce the Church in that area.
 
Pope Benedict is from Germany the Catholic faith there still declined during his papacy, It doesn’t follow that if you elect a Pope from a region/country, it’ll reinforce the Church in that area.
True, but I think if you (or anyone) assumed that singledhandedly a Pope could reverse rapidly what has been a slower & steadier decline, was fooling himself/herself. Second, I was really talking about the industrialized world as whole, not a single country. Third, the issue of the U.S. is more pressing, given that our isolation is far more problematic when it comes to identification with Rome, combined with trends toward heavy secularization and the deliberate marginalization of traditional Catholicism by the ultra-powerful American media.

Ignoring the U.S., while supposedly continuing to preach a New Evangelization, is a doomed strategy on the Vatican’s part. It will result in the American Church perceiving Rome has increasingly irrelevant to modern life, and it will add to the discouragement of the orthodox among American Catholics, which in turn has a major effect on political energy of American Catholics with regard to national issues.

I.m.o., this is why the American press is spinning this story so hard, and why they have spilled so much ink over our last 2 pontiffs. The ultra-liberal-left media dreads losing any of their power base to religious conservatism, and thus they welcome any erosion of motivation from conservative Catholics.
 
Both JPII and BXVI were cardinals before they were elected and, by all accounts, neither one wanted the appointment. Pope Benedict actually tried to retire both when JPII appointed him to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and when he was elected Pope.

I don’t think cannon law allows for that.
Do you honestly believe that BXVI had no interest in being Pope? I can believe it of JPII since he came out of nowhere. But Cardinal Ratzinger, was by far the most likely choice based strictly on his political power before the death of JPII. Perhaps I am being overly cynical. But the fact that the college of Cardinals have not selected anyone outside of their ranks for so long greatly disturbs me.

I doubt that canon law forbids the Pope having a light hand with diocese selecting their own Bishops, for two reasons: 1. the Pope’s heavy involvement with the selection of Bishops is quite a recent phenomenon and 2. it only applies, iirc, to the Latin Rite.
 
True, but I think if you (or anyone) assumed that singledhandedly a Pope could reverse rapidly what has been a slower & steadier decline, was fooling himself/herself. Second, I was really talking about the industrialized world as whole, not a single country. Third, the issue of the U.S. is more pressing, given that our isolation is far more problematic when it comes to identification with Rome, combined with trends toward heavy secularization and the deliberate marginalization of traditional Catholicism by the ultra-powerful American media.

Ignoring the U.S., while supposedly continuing to preach a New Evangelization, is a doomed strategy on the Vatican’s part. It will result in the American Church perceiving Rome has increasingly irrelevant to modern life, and it will add to the discouragement of the orthodox among American Catholics, which in turn has a major effect on political energy of American Catholics with regard to national issues.

I.m.o., this is why the American press is spinning this story so hard, and why they have spilled so much ink over our last 2 pontiffs. The ultra-liberal-left media dreads losing any of their power base to religious conservatism, and thus they welcome any erosion of motivation from conservative Catholics.
Having a Pope from the US won’t change any of that. He’d still be treated exactly the same by the secular media and the cafeteria Catholics will still be voting the same way. As I said, just look at Germany.
In addition, having an American Pope would end up causing far more problems because of the perception that the Catholic Church is in league with the last remaining geo political super power.
 
Do you honestly believe that BXVI had no interest in being Pope?
Yes, I do. Not only are there eye witness accounts, but he even set himself up for this day when he wrote that he was in favor of a Pope stepping down for health reasons instead of staying in office for the rest of his life. That position isn’t just glame and glitz, it’s a strenuous and arduous responsibility on a daily basis, not just physically, but mentally and spiritually.
I doubt that canon law forbids the Pope having a light hand with diocese selecting their own Bishops, for two reasons: 1. the Pope’s heavy involvement with the selection of Bishops is quite a recent phenomenon and 2. it only applies, iirc, to the Latin Rite.
Cannon law = Latin rite.
 
Having a Pope from the US won’t change any of that. He’d still be treated exactly the same by the secular media and the cafeteria Catholics will still be voting the same way. As I said, just look at Germany.
In addition, having an American Pope would end up causing far more problems because of the perception that the Catholic Church is in league with the last remaining geo political super power.
That’s your opinion, which you are stating as predictable fact. It is not fact, despite your preference for prophecy.

My perception is 180 degrees from that. As with the situation in Germany, I am not so naive as to think that overnight miracles would occur, but I am clear, given all of my intimate acquaintaince with the American Church post-Vatican 2, that U.S. Catholicism will remain fragmented and problematic if Rome continues to ignore the U.S. – from wherever the new Pope himself originates. It is an act of resignation (i.e., despair, not retirement) to abandon the U.S. to the devil and his secular friends, in the assumption that the U.S. is a Lost Cause.

The Roman Catholic Church in the U.S. is in desperate and, I repeat, emergency status when it comes to both Evangelization and Catechesis (two sides of a coin). Rome ignores us at peril to the whole Church Universal. Any eventual resurgence of American Catholicism will not occur with detachment on Rome’s part.
 
What makes you think Rome is ignoring the US??? Because there hasn’t been an American Pope? Because despite your statement that a Pope wouldn’t have to come from the US, everything else you’re saying is stating the opposite. The Church isn’t ignoring the US, and it’s a real shame you actually think it is.
 
It is fun to speculate, but the fact of the matter is that the Holy Spirit will decide who the next Pope is going to be. The next Pope might not even be a Cardinal. I am reminded of Pope Celestine V (who also resigned of his own free will), who was not even a Cardinal but rather a hermit and yet was chosen by the Holy Spirit to lead the Church.
 
That’s your opinion, which you are stating as predictable fact. It is not fact, despite your preference for prophecy.

My perception is 180 degrees from that. As with the situation in Germany, I am not so naive as to think that overnight miracles would occur, but I am clear, given all of my intimate acquaintaince with the American Church post-Vatican 2, that U.S. Catholicism will remain fragmented and problematic if Rome continues to ignore the U.S. – from wherever the new Pope himself originates. It is an act of resignation (i.e., despair, not retirement) to abandon the U.S. to the devil and his secular friends, in the assumption that the U.S. is a Lost Cause.

The Roman Catholic Church in the U.S. is in desperate and, I repeat, emergency status when it comes to both Evangelization and Catechesis (two sides of a coin). Rome ignores us at peril to the whole Church Universal. Any eventual resurgence of American Catholicism will not occur with detachment on Rome’s part.
Should anyone be surprised that the US (and many other countries) are having such difficulties with Evangelization and Catechesis when Bishops are not promoted based on their abilities in these fields? The best way for the Vatican to help us is to get out of our politics and let us chose our own Bishops based not only fidelity to Orthodoxy (not just the conservative side of Orthodoxy that conservative cafeteria Catholics like to chose, but all sides of orthodoxy), but also based on pastoral abilities and ability to reach out to every Catholic of every persuasion and beyond.

If you treat people like children and they will act like children. Give us responsibility and some flexibility (within Orthodoxy of course) and we will thrive. Micromanage everything and we will fail. Trust but verify!
 
It is fun to speculate, but the fact of the matter is that the Holy Spirit will decide who the next Pope is going to be. The next Pope might not even be a Cardinal…
That is true. The person selected doesn’t even need to be a priest when he is chosen, although he would have to become a priest in order to become the bishop of Rome.

The only requirements to be chosen has pope is to be male, Catholic and a certain age (although I don’t know what that age is) But many, may years have passed since a non-bishop was chosen.

The Irish betting company Paddy Power offers odds on various possible candidates for the nomination. All of them are cardinals or archbishops, with three exceptions:
Bono, at 1000:1
Fr. Dougal McGuire of Craggy Island, at 1000:1
Richard Dawkins, at 666:1 :o

Personally, I would like to see Fr. Robert Barron of Chicago chosen, but I think he is too young to be considered. And too American. But what a great evangelist! Choosing a pope who can energize the Church would be very welcome.
 
And if I remember correctly, Ratzinger wasn’t even being discussed when he got elected as B16. He was not on anyone’s “short list” or even in the ballpark as far as discussions were going.
Say what? My memory is there was plenty of speculation about him due to his close collaboration with JP2. Of course in the same breath his age was usually mentioned as being against him. But I certainly never got the impression that he was an out-of-left-field choice as Wojtyla was.
 
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