Papal candidates - Short List?

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Not to derail, or argue, but since Simon Peter was a Fisherman, he was unlikely to know the ‘upper’ languages of the time, though I guess the holy spirit, or some other people, might have taught him a little of them.
Didn’t they believe Jesus and the people of that time spoke Aramaic? I wonder if any of the Cardinals speak this ancient language? It does seem important to have several languages to be Pope. Was it always like this?

I think Blessed John Paul II raised the bar and became The World’s Pope. He did so much travelling and would always greet in the native language. I know Pope Benedict is also fluent in many languages. I loved the way he said God bless America with a slight accent and such a sweet and sincere tone.

Lisa
 
Is there a good book or article about the election of Blessed John Paul II? I was not Catholic at the time but the short tenure for John Paul I (Italian right?) put the whole thing back in the news.
The book I just quoted discusses that conclave in a bit of detail, since it was the most recent one at the time the book was written. It is however, not a single coherent account, but snippets spread throughout the book. If I know Allen, he’s got a new edition in the works to be released in the next couple of years. With the extra time provided by Benedict’s announcement, he may be able to pull some all-nighters editing it in the next few days, and rush the book to publication for early March. Alternatively, the old one may still be available in some libraries, and is available as a digital book (although the Amazon page is unclear whether it’s the original 2002 edition, or the revised one from 2004).

Here is one paragraph about the conclave a month earlier:
The conclave opened on the evening of August 25, but the cardinals
did not hold a vote that evening, contenting themselves with
taking the prescribed oaths and hearing an exhortation from Villot to
the effect that they should think only of the well-being of the universal
church. The next morning they celebrated mass in the Sistine
Chapel and then had a small breakfast before assembling at 9:30 a.m.
for the first ballot. In the first round, the votes were scattered. Siri
was in the lead with 25, followed by Luciani with 23. In the second
ballot, which followed immediately, there was a dramatic increase in
Luciani’s total, to 53. Siri, meanwhile, actually dropped one vote, to
24. ln a sign of things to come, 4 ballots had the name of Cardinal
Karol Wojtyla of Krakow.
 
Personally, my only problem with Cardinal Peter Turkson succeeding would be the conspiracy theories shouting “Malachy’s prophecy! Malachy’s prophecy! Petrus Romanus!” I don’t want to hear about that hogwash anymore; it’s tiring.

It’s nothing against the Cardinal himself, of course.
 
Personally, my only problem with Cardinal Peter Turkson succeeding would be the conspiracy theories shouting “Malachy’s prophecy! Malachy’s prophecy! Petrus Romanus!” I don’t want to hear about that hogwash anymore; it’s tiring.

It’s nothing against the Cardinal himself, of course.
I think they will be around regardless of who will be the next pope. If his name is not Peter and he’s neither from Rome, nor a resident of Rome, someone will eventually find “clues” anyway. An ancestor of him whose name was Peter, an important trip to Rome made by him or his mother, any other city whose name or importance could be linked to Rome (for ex. Constantinople = “New Rome”), wordplays about Peter = stone, anagrams, numerologic analysis of names etc. - ad infinitum. That’s how conspiracy theories work.
 
I would love to see Raymond Cardinal Burke elected. Cardinal Burke has been such a bastion of Catholicism in recent years and has been such a model for young men like myself to follow.

I do think, however, that people are overlooking one man - Angelo Cardinal Bagnasco, one year junior of Cardinal Scola. Bagnasco is the archbishop of Genoa and, like Burke, has been very involved with the Extraordinary Form. Likewise, His Eminence is very orthodox in social teachings. This added to the fact that he is Italian and he isn’t old as far as Cardinals go (seventy). I think he has a fighting chance.
Angelo Cardinal Bagnasco would probably be a good choice, though he probably flies under the radar outside of Italy, or at least Europe. He also speaks multiple languages, which is useful for a Pope. Here’s a video snippet from the Cardinal’s visit to Jerusalem in 2009:

fmc-terrasanta.org/en/pilgrims.html?vid=3435
 
Front page today’s [newspaper]
That article headline is unfortunate for Cardinal Turkson. Reportedly, cardinals who are seen as openly campaigning to become pope are looked down upon, and their prospects are hurt by such tactics. I am afraid that Cardinal Turkson may be viewed in this light.
 
That article headline is unfortunate for Cardinal Turkson. Reportedly, cardinals who are seen as openly campaigning to become pope are looked down upon, and their prospects are hurt by such tactics. I am afraid that Cardinal Turkson may be viewed in this light.
By who, cardinals in conclave?

Cardinal Marc Quellet, who is number 1 with bookie Paddy Power has previously said being Pope ‘would be a nightmare’ and a Pope’s responsibilities ‘crushing’ and duties ‘are perhaps not very enviable’

Perhaps Cardinal Quellet’s views have changed since he made those comments but if they have not, is it not better for Cardinal Quellet and the Church that somebody is picked that wants to be Pope, which Cardinal Turkston does, than somebody that does not want to be Pope? Is a want to be Pope taken as a negative by conclave?
 
BEAUTIFUL!

I hate the discussion taking the focus off of the individual and discussing what color his skin or where he comes form. I think “identity politics” has been a DISASTER in this country and I hope it does not impact the Church.

Lisa
Yeah, I too am pretty peeved about the race card being played by the secular media. This should not be a factor for consideration. The best man for the job should be the prevailing motive. A heavyweight theologian is not the ‘be all and end all’ in my opinion.
I think a strong communicator is clearly called for, but equally important, someone with strong hands on experience as an administrator, (Think Paul VI contrasted to John XXIII) to implement any reforms in the Vatican he deems necessary, to tighten up the Churches procedures and policies.

In light of all the scandals, (eg abuse and banking)accountability and transparency both internationally and nationally are called for. Benedict XVI was clearly trying to make inroads, in my opinion, but was frustrated by power politics in the Vatican and national bishops conferences. The fact that he had to step in and write an open letter to Irish Catholics, in my opinion showed his dismay (reading between the lines) of the lacklustre response of the Irish episcopate to this issue.

I don’t think doctrinal issues will be the major concern, nothing should change there, but how Church affairs are managed, and how they are presented and related to the secular world is becoming more important.

For that reason I would opt for a strong administrator capable of implementing much needed bureaucratic reform, who can transmit clearly stated church teaching to the world.
A tad unseemly to be giving interviews, IMO.
Unfortunate ito say the least.
Personally, my only problem with Cardinal Peter Turkson succeeding would be the conspiracy theories shouting “Malachy’s prophecy! Malachy’s prophecy! Petrus Romanus!” I don’t want to hear about that hogwash anymore; it’s tiring.

It’s nothing against the Cardinal himself, of course.
I think they will be around regardless of who will be the next pope. If his name is not Peter and he’s neither from Rome, nor a resident of Rome, someone will eventually find “clues” anyway. An ancestor of him whose name was Peter, an important trip to Rome made by him or his mother, any other city whose name or importance could be linked to Rome (for ex. Constantinople = “New Rome”), wordplays about Peter = stone, anagrams, numerologic analysis of names etc. - ad infinitum. That’s how conspiracy theories work.
Yeah, just to annoy the conspiracy/prophecy theorists. But like you say, they would still find a way of making it fit in any case.
That article headline is unfortunate for Cardinal Turkson. Reportedly, cardinals who are seen as openly campaigning to become pope are looked down upon, and their prospects are hurt by such tactics. I am afraid that Cardinal Turkson may be viewed in this light.
May have just shot himself in the foot.
It is fun to speculate, but the fact of the matter is that the Holy Spirit will decide who the next Pope is going to be. The next Pope might not even be a Cardinal. I am reminded of Pope Celestine V (who also resigned of his own free will), who was not even a Cardinal but rather a hermit and yet was chosen by the Holy Spirit to lead the Church.
In the spirit of this rare event in the Church, I am going to go out on a limb with my prediction:

View attachment 16176

Dom Louis-Marie, Abbot of Sainte Madeleine du Barroux.
I would be highly amused, imagine how off guard the worlds media would be caught if a literal outsider from the College of Cardinals was elected.
( I’m sure the Pope must have had a little chuckle to himself, at least I hope so, with his ‘little’ announcement on Monday. (The ‘caretaker’ continues to confound and surprise us all, not least the media.)
I really don’t think it likely, but would be in favour of the net being cast wider than it traditionally has been. One could only speculate how many of the Cardinals would give this any serious consideration though.
 
Cardinal Marc Quellet, who is number 1 with bookie Paddy Power has previously said being Pope ‘would be a nightmare’ and a Pope’s responsibilities ‘crushing’ and duties ‘are perhaps not very enviable’

Perhaps Cardinal Quellet’s views have changed since he made those comments but if they have not, is it not better for Cardinal Quellet and the Church that somebody is picked that wants to be Pope, which Cardinal Turkston does, than somebody that does not want to be Pope? Is a want to be Pope taken as a negative by conclave?
Yes, to openly campaign is seen as lacking humility. lacking respect, and having a desire for power which is unhealthy for the Church.

Cardinal Ouellet’s statement is actually a conventional response. Most papabile say something similar. I’m pretty sure that Cardinal Ratzinger did.

Cardinal Turkson is surely aware of all of this. For this reason, I think the headline in The Times is probably a misrepresentation of what he actually said. But the headline still hurts him.
 
The book I just quoted discusses that conclave in a bit of detail, since it was the most recent one at the time the book was written. It is however, not a single coherent account, but snippets spread throughout the book. If I know Allen, he’s got a new edition in the works to be released in the next couple of years. With the extra time provided by Benedict’s announcement, he may be able to pull some all-nighters editing it in the next few days, and rush the book to publication for early March. Alternatively, the old one may still be available in some libraries, and is available as a digital book (although the Amazon page is unclear whether it’s the original 2002 edition, or the revised one from 2004).

Here is one paragraph about the conclave a month earlier:
Wow thank you. Will try to learn more. Clearly the Holy Spirit was at work!
Lisa
 
Yes, to openly campaign is seen as lacking humility. lacking respect, and having a desire for power which is unhealthy for the Church.

Cardinal Ouellet’s statement is actually a conventional response. Most papabile say something similar. I’m pretty sure that Cardinal Ratzinger did.

Cardinal Turkson is surely aware of all of this. For this reason, I think the headline in The Times is probably a misrepresentation of what he actually said. But the headline still hurts him.
Cardinal Ouellet’s statement was not unusual and you are correct when Pope Benedict was Cardinal Ratzinger he was close to BJPII and knew the demands, saw the toll taken on him and had tried to retire long before he was named Pope. You are also making a good point about Cardinal Turkson. I have little faith in the MSM to accurately portray anything about the Church or any matters of religion.

Lisa
 
Cardinal O’Malley of Boston said he bought a round-trip ticket. Looked a bit uneasy when asked about the idea of becoming Pope.

Interesting how some are motivated by the idea and others, well, they do seem a bit skeptical. Perhaps rightfully so.
 
Yes, to openly campaign is seen as lacking humility. lacking respect, and having a desire for power which is unhealthy for the Church.

Cardinal Turkson is surely aware of all of this. For this reason, I think the headline in The Times is probably a misrepresentation of what he actually said. But the headline still hurts him.
African members of our Parish, and not just a few African members of the clergy over here are rooting for him. I have no particular view in the matter as all are in the hands of the Holy Spirit. However, it does distress when it is stated by them that an, African Pope means that canon law will now/must be viewed behind Asiatic eyes. Quite alarming as no one seems to appreciate Church laws as being universal.
 
African members of our Parish, and not a just a few African members of the clergy over here are rooting for him. I have no particular view in the matter as all are in the hands of the Holy Spirit.
I know little about Cardinal Turkson, or about any of the cardinals, really. I do think, however, that the Church would benefit from a pope who comes from the Global South. This is where the majority of Catholics now live, and its where the majority of growth is occurring. A pope from this region would be a powerful sign that the Universal Church truly is universal. And it would would be a tremendous boost to the Church to finally have a pope who is not from the West.
However, it does distress when it is stated by them that an, African Pope means that canon law will now/must be viewed behind Asiatic eyes…
I wonder what they mean? I suppose it is ignorance on my part, but I don’t have any handle on understanding that statement.
 
I know little about Cardinal Turkson, or about any of the cardinals, really. I do think, however, that the Church would benefit from a pope who comes from the Global South. This is where the majority of Catholics now live, and its where the majority of growth is occurring. A pope from this region would be a powerful sign that the Universal Church truly is universal. And it would would be a tremendous boost to the Church to finally have a pope who is not from the West.

I wonder what they mean? I suppose it is ignorance on my part, but I don’t have any handle on understanding that statement.
There is a huge difference between east and west as to basic outlook on life and life issues. Just as most Buddhists who are serious practitioners believe no westerner can truly understand and absorb this practice and just as Chinese medicine is a completely different approach to healing than western medicine, I suspect that indeed that the Universal Church is seen differently through a different lens. I am not inferring that a Pope from this region would not be orthodox. But I do think the people do not throw off their culture even if they accept a religion from the west.Further I think for every Asian or African who is thrilled that “his team” won the prize, there will be Europeans or Americans who would interpret the choice as turning the proverbial back on its own foundations.

Again I am totally opposed to picking a Pope based on geography and I don’t think the Cardinals will even consider this in making a decision. If upon prayer, consideration and listening to the guidance of the Holy Spirit, they choose a European or someone from the Americas, an Asian or African, that is the man needed for this time.
Lisa
 
I wonder what they mean? I suppose it is ignorance on my part, but I don’t have any handle on understanding that statement.
The usual position with regards Church laws against artificial contraception to fight poverty/control population and use of condoms for HIV cases in Africa. There is also cultural practice e.g. “naming ceremonies” officiated by some members of the clergy in place of Baptism in Church continues over here as part of their cultural tradition. In the latter, one has had few heated arguments over refusal to issue Baptismal Certificates.
 
Wikipedia also identifies Peter Turkson him as being the source of The Note:
“In response to the global economic crisis started in 2008, Cardinal Turkson together with bishop Mario Toso elaborated a proposal to reform the International Financial System by creating a Global Public Authority and a Global Bank that consider the interest of all developing countries. The document of 40 pages was officially presented in October 2011….”
If The Note sounds familiar to some, that is not surprising. It is merely that neo-Marxist Liberation Theology in a new and global garb — the same liberation theology repudiated by the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in 1984 and 1986.
 
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