Papal candidates - Short List?

[_Abyssinia]

Yes, to openly campaign is seen as lacking humility. lacking respect, and having a desire for power which is unhealthy for the Church.

Cardinal Ouellet’s statement is actually a conventional response. Most papabile say something similar. I’m pretty sure that Cardinal Ratzinger did.

Cardinal Turkson is surely aware of all of this. For this reason, I think the headline in The Times is probably a misrepresentation of what he actually said. But the headline still hurts him.

The Times took things from an AP interview Cardinal Turkston did and put them together

AP interview says he is up for the job, but it does not quote him as saying saying that and he says ‘if it is up to the will of God’

He also said The church in the Third World doesn’t need a pope of its own to thrive

 

[_Abyssinia]

The Times or The Guardian?? The Guardian is liberal, we know this. Cardinal Turkson seems to have made statements on Globalization. Yet, I don’t know enough about the exact statement. It might alarm some.

The Times. But he made the statement to the AP, the Times are picking it up

 

[_Abyssinia]

BroomWagon:
Why does the article reference the prophecies attributed to Malachy which most say is a 16th century fake and Petrus Romanas may not have even be referenced in those prophecies but added to the text in Wyon’s Lignum Vitae

 

[mburn16]

“If The Note sounds familiar to some, that is not surprising. It is merely that neo-Marxist Liberation Theology in a new and global garb — the same liberation theology repudiated by the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in 1984 and 1986.”

Indeed. Not exactly a beneficial force. To the extent the Pope can be an economist, I think we have to recognize the shortcomings of the socialist system. Its better, in some respects, on equity…but not so good at overall improvement in position. Would be a tricky needle to thread.

 

[BroomWagon]

“In response to the global economic crisis started in 2008, Cardinal Turkson together with bishop Mario Toso elaborated a proposal to reform the International Financial System by creating a Global Public Authority and a Global Bank that consider the interest of all developing countries. The document of 40 pages was officially presented in October 2011….”

I don’t know, we already have an IMF. Cardinal Turkson and Bishop Toso mentioned aiding “developing countries”. Obviously, I’m no expert but a lot of people would think the IMF or a financial institution should help out some developing countries like Cameroon or Laos. There are countries out there like that.

 

[_Abyssinia]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8504128&postcount=265

BroomWagon regarding the note, a third person contriubted to the document, Prof Leonardo Becchett, who is called a socialist economist by Fr Zuhlsdorf’s friend Fabrizio

Why does the article reference the prophecies attributed to Malachy which most say is a 16th century fake and Petrus Romanas may not have even be referenced in those prophecies but added to the text in Wyon’s Lignum Vitae

 

[mburn16]

"
Why does the article reference the prophecies attributed to Malachy which most say is a 16th century fake and Petrus Romanas may not have even be referenced in those prophecies but added to the text in Wyon’s Lignum Vitae "

Scary news sells better.

 

[BroomWagon]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8504128&postcount=265

BroomWagon regarding the note, a third person contriubted to the document, Prof Leonardo Becchett, who is called a socialist economist by Fr Zuhlsdorf’s friend Fabrizio

Why does the article reference the prophecies attributed to Malachy which most say is a 16th century fake and Petrus Romanas may not have even be referenced in those prophecies but added to the text in Wyon’s Lignum Vitae

Meaning the 'Fellowship of the Minds" website??

St. Malachy (1094-1148), the first Irish saint in the Catholic Church, prophesied that the last pope would be one “Peter the Roman”:

“In the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church there will reign Petrus Romanus, who will feed his flock amid many tribulations; after which the seven-hilled city will be destroyed and the dreadful Judge will judge the people. The End.”

fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/tag/cardinal-peter-turkson/

No particular reason, it’s just a blurb at the end of the article. A lot of people have been mentioning this prophecy. Maybe they just decided to touch on it.

 

[Vouthon]

I am familiar with Cardinal Turkson (not personally of course), in that I’ve been keeping my eye on him since he became President of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace (Social Teaching is close to my heart so I usually have an interest in that particular Vatican body). Through my reading, Turkson has always struck me as a very humble man.

He didn’t even want to become a bishop. He desired to continue with his doctorate studies and keep on being a parish priest. However he was kind of “head-hunted” because of his talents.

Two days ago I watched an interview he gave immediately after the pope announced his imminent resignation. It gives a very different image. It is the media who is hounding him, repeatedly trying to co-erce him into saying that he wants to become a pope from the Third World and subtly taking him out of context so as to make headlines.

This interview is a case in point:

bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21417062

 

[_Abyssinia]

Meaning the 'Fellowship of the Minds" website??

Yes

No particular reason, it’s just a blurb at the end of the article. A lot of people have been mentioning this prophecy. Maybe they just decided to touch on it.

 

[BroomWagon]

I am familiar with Cardinal Turkson (not personally of course), in that I’ve been keeping my eye on him since he became President of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace (Social Teaching is close to my heart so I usually have an interest in that particular Vatican body). Through my reading, Turkson has always struck me as a very humble man.

He didn’t even want to become a bishop. He desired to continue with his doctorate studies and keep on being a parish priest. However he was kind of “head-hunted” because of his talents.

Two days ago I watched an interview he gave immediately after the pope announced his imminent resignation. It gives a very different image. It is the media who is hounding him, repeatedly trying to co-erce him into saying that he wants to become a pope from the Third World and subtly taking him out of context so as to make headlines.

This interview is a case in point:

bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21417062

I would hope all of the Bishops and Cardinals have the virtue of humility.

 

[BroomWagon]

I am familiar with Cardinal Turkson (not personally of course), in that I’ve been keeping my eye on him since he became President of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace (Social Teaching is close to my heart so I usually have an interest in that particular Vatican body). Through my reading, Turkson has always struck me as a very humble man.

He didn’t even want to become a bishop. He desired to continue with his doctorate studies and keep on being a parish priest. However he was kind of “head-hunted” because of his talents.

Two days ago I watched an interview he gave immediately after the pope announced his imminent resignation. It gives a very different image. It is the media who is hounding him, repeatedly trying to co-erce him into saying that he wants to become a pope from the Third World and subtly taking him out of context so as to make headlines.

This interview is a case in point:

bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21417062

The way you word it to, it almost looks like an Anglophile effort and I’m not knocking that.

Nigeria and Ghana being former English colonies. Ghana once known as Gold Coast.

Are there more Catholics or Anglicans in these countries? One would think the Anglican religion would have more followers but I don’t know.

 

[Joe_5859]

I like Rocco Palmo’s observation:

“Even if everybody’s clamoring for speculation on potential successors, right now, it would seem that any pondering of papabili is more an exercise in comedy than anything else.”

That’s pretty much it in a nutshell. We can try to read the signs and attempt to frame the whole thing in quasi-political language. But mostly, we’re just making God laugh by telling him our plans.

 

[BroomWagon]

I like Rocco Palmo’s observation:

“Even if everybody’s clamoring for speculation on potential successors, right now, it would seem that any pondering of papabili is more an exercise in comedy than anything else.”

That’s pretty much it in a nutshell. We can try to read the signs and attempt to frame the whole thing in quasi-political language. But mostly, we’re just making God laugh by telling him our plans.

So you say we shouldn’t even discuss who the successor may be?

It’s a discussion board, we have to remember that.

I would not assert that we know that God is laughing at us for being curious about who the next Pope may be. Do you really believe that?

 

[Vouthon]

The way you word it to, it almost looks like an Anglophile effort and I’m not knocking that.

Nigeria and Ghana being former English colonies. Ghana once known as Gold Coast.

Are there more Catholics or Anglicans in these countries? One would think the Anglican religion would have more followers but I don’t know.

There are slightly more mainline Protestants in Ghana than there are Catholics, I think something like 2% more. I believe one of Turkson’s parents was a Methodist. Pentecostals are the biggest group though.

 

[BroomWagon]

There are slightly more Protestants in Ghana than there are Catholics, I think something like 2% more. I believe one of Turkson’s parents was a Methodist.

I don’t even know if Anglicans are counted as Protestants, I did see the Gold Coast census for 1960. I did see the picture of the Anglican Cathedral in Ghana.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Ghana

We have an African store in town run by Ghanans, it is called Maranatha or something, they are big Evangelicals I think, a lot of Africans are including some Sudanese here. I can speak of percentages but it does seem a lot of Africans from English speaking countries are Evangelicals while those of French Speaking Countries are a safe bet to assume they’ve remained Catholic. Interesting.

Though Ethiopians certainly adhere to their Orthodox roots and heritage.

 

[Digitonomy]

I would not assert that we know that God is laughing at us for being curious about who the next Pope may be. Do you really believe that?

I hope he is laughing at us. It’s not an image usually used, but I do like to think of him watching all our actions with the amusement of a parent being sometimes proud and sometimes disappointed.

 

[Vouthon]

I hope he is laughing at us. It’s not an image usually used, but I do like to think of him watching all our actions with the amusement of a parent being sometimes proud and sometimes disappointed.

God is impassible, without emotions.

Emotion denotes change. God is an unceasing, eternal act. Unchanging.

For him to experience amusement would bring him down to the human sphere and denote change within him, which as you know cannot be because God in his Essence is wholly transcendent and immutable.

Emotions are a result of changeableness. God is one eternal divine act, which in his very nature is the self-emptying love between the Three Persons of the Most Holy Trinity.

 

[Joe_5859]

So you say we shouldn’t even discuss who the successor may be?

It’s a discussion board, we have to remember that.

I would not assert that we know that God is laughing at us for being curious about who the next Pope may be. Do you really believe that?

No, that was not what I was saying. We can discuss all we want (that’s why I’m here ), but it doesn’t really effect the outcome.

I was paraphrasing the saying “If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.” I don’t mean that God is up in heaven looking down on us through derisive laughter. That would be unsettling.

I think it’s natural for us to be curious and try to figure things out. I know that’s what I’m doing. But I also think it’s beneficial to remind ourselves to put all our speculation in perspective and not take ourselves too seriously. We don’t want to go overboard and paint the whole process as some sort of secular election motivated solely by pragmatic considerations.

 

[Vouthon]

We don’t want to go overboard and paint the whole process as some sort of secular election motivated solely by pragmatic considerations.

On that I am with you 100%

However I don’t think anyone here is doing that. We are simply curious about and desirous to find out who is going to be our next Holy Father.

The only people trying to make it like a secular election are the media. Look at some British newspapers concerning poor Cardinal Turkson and you’ll see it first-hand