Papal candidates - Short List?

[Crescentinus]

Ohhhh Kaayyy.

Everyone, Bookmark this post so we can refresh our memories in a month as to the Prophecy of Petronus.

lol

 

[Santi2]

Ohhhh Kaayyy.

Everyone, Bookmark this post so we can refresh our memories in a month as to the Prophecy of Petronus.

And, thereafter, flog ourselves for not joining the Facebook campaign “+Abp Tagle for Pope”.

 

[Elizabeth502]

As you probably know, Santi, “campaigns” for the papacy normally backfire. There was a recent article about this, possibly in uca news. Some discussion of how Turkson has stated a few times recently that he would look forward to a chance at the papacy, or something like that. (I am not quoting him; I just remember that there were supposedly several positive remarks made by him, according to this article which may or may not be accurate!.) As I recall, the focus of the article was not on him so much as on the topic of subtle or not-so-subtle campaigning.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Dolan Says It’s ‘Highly Possible’ the Next Pope Could Be a Non-European

 

[petronus]

As you probably know, Santi, “campaigns” for the papacy normally backfire. )

Could we have some facts please about these “campaigns” for the papacy ?

 

[LisaA]

Dolan Says It’s ‘Highly Possible’ the Next Pope Could Be a Non-European

Just to clarify, I heard the entire interview on which this was based (A Conversation With The Cardinal on The Catholic Channel…highly recommended!). I think the context is tha while he and the current group of Cardinals were growing up, it was assumed that the Pope WOULD be chosen from among Italian Cardinals. The election of Blessed Pope John Paul II was “an earthquake” in the Church. When his lenghty (27 years) tenure as Pope concluded, a German was elected. True they were both European but given the long run of “Only Italians Need Apply” it signifiied a willingness to be open to the guidance of the Holy Spirit regardless of the geographical origin of the Cardinal.

That being said, I still believe the next Pope will be from Europe or North America. Not campaigning, just my opinion based on all o fthe various bios, pundits and editorials.

Lisa

 

[Santi2]

As you probably know, Santi, “campaigns” for the papacy normally backfire. There was a recent article about this, possibly in uca news. Some discussion of how Turkson has stated a few times recently that he would look forward to a chance at the papacy, or something like that. (I am not quoting him; I just remember that there were supposedly several positive remarks made by him, according to this article which may or may not be accurate!.) As I recall, the focus of the article was not on him so much as on the topic of subtle or not-so-subtle campaigning.

There is also a Facebook campaign “Cardinal Turkson for Pope”. One wonders how the supporters of Cardinal Tagle and Cardinal Turkson would react if their Cardinal does not happen to be the Chosen One.

What has not ceased to amaze me is that Cardinals have not kept schtum since 11th February, especially so after the Holy Father spoke about Virtual V2 and the media. One would think that as it is the Lenten season and the task ahead of them, all of them would be on their knees (even prostrate) in prayer.

 

[LisaA]

There is also a Facebook campaign “Cardinal Turkson for Pope”. One wonders how the supporters of Cardinal Tagle and Cardinal Turkson would react if their Cardinal does not happen to be the Chosen One.

What has not ceased to amaze me is that Cardinals have not kept schtum since 11th February, especially so after the Holy Father spoke about Virtual V2 and the media. One would think that as it is the Lenten season and the task ahead of them, all of them would be on their knees (even prostrate) in prayer.

Oy! I guess not all are satisfied to be a “humble servant in the vineyard of the Lord” as modeled by our Holy Father.

Many are speaking of hurrying up the process (Cardinal Timothy Dolan mentioned this in his interview) but given the nature of the Conclave and technology, there will be incredible strain and demands on the security and secrecy needed. Imagine some sort of ‘hacker’ getting into the Conclave even though the Cardinals have relinquished all devices, phones, etc. It sounds as if there is a full court social media press with respect to some of the Cardinals but I do believe it will backfire. I am surprised these Cardinals have not requested all such outside efforts be terminated.

 

[Joe_5859]

Oy! I guess not all are satisfied to be a “humble servant in the vineyard of the Lord” as modeled by our Holy Father.

Many are speaking of hurrying up the process (Cardinal Timothy Dolan mentioned this in his interview) but given the nature of the Conclave and technology, there will be incredible strain and demands on the security and secrecy needed. Imagine some sort of ‘hacker’ getting into the Conclave even though the Cardinals have relinquished all devices, phones, etc. It sounds as if there is a full court social media press with respect to some of the Cardinals but I do believe it will backfire. I am surprised these Cardinals have not requested all such outside efforts be terminated.

To be fair, I think the accusations of Cardinal Turkson “campaigning” are very much trumped up.

In light of Benedict’s resignation, it is natural for reporters to want to talk to their local Cardinal. And the Cardinal is not going to want to turn down the chance to speak to the public at those moments where the public eye is firmly on the Church. And of course it’s going to be on any reporter’s list of questions to ask if the Cardinal being interviewed thinks he has a chance, or whether he would want the job. It seems likely to me that Turkson simply failed to artfully dodge a question it would be better to leave more-or-less unanswered.

Or maybe I’m just projecting. I could see myself doing that. I have a hard time not trying to give straight answers, even to loaded questions or questions people have no business asking me.

 

[Santi2]

Oy! I guess not all are satisfied to be a “humble servant in the vineyard of the Lord” as modeled by our Holy Father.

Many are speaking of hurrying up the process (Cardinal Timothy Dolan mentioned this in his interview) but given the nature of the Conclave and technology, there will be incredible strain and demands on the security and secrecy needed. Imagine some sort of ‘hacker’ getting into the Conclave even though the Cardinals have relinquished all devices, phones, etc. It sounds as if there is a full court social media press with respect to some of the Cardinals but I do believe it will backfire. I am surprised these Cardinals have not requested all such outside efforts be terminated.

The virtue of humility does appear to be out of sorts amongst a few. Cardinal so and so, when sought for an opinion on this or that, does not have the wherewithal to decline a media spotlight. By pandering to the media, they only demonstrate a lack of reservation for the spiritual dignity and nature of the Conclave.

 

[LisaA]

To be fair, I think the accusations of Cardinal Turkson “campaigning” are very much trumped up.

In light of Benedict’s resignation, it is natural for reporters to want to talk to their local Cardinal. And the Cardinal is not going to want to turn down the chance to speak to the public at those moments where the public eye is firmly on the Church. And of course it’s going to be on any reporter’s list of questions to ask if the Cardinal being interviewed thinks he has a chance, or whether he would want the job. It seems likely to me that Turkson simply failed to artfully dodge a question it would be better to leave more-or-less unanswered.

Or maybe I’m just projecting. I could see myself doing that. I have a hard time not trying to give straight answers, even to loaded questions or questions people have no business asking me.

Oh agreed, I am not surprised this is occurring and while the American Cardinals know to be VERY careful about what they say to the media, perhaps Cardinal Turkson or others were not so aware of how their words would be twisted, taken out of context or simply misquoted. Cardiinal Dolan said something on the order of “people must be smoking dope to think I have a chance” which was a bit unartful although typical of his exhuberant style.

I was speaking more of those outside ‘campaigns’ such as on Facebook or Twitter that might actually backfire with respect to the Cardinals who probably do not worry about how many "likes’ they receive!

Lisa

 

[Joe_5859]

The virtue of humility does appear to be out of sorts amongst a few. Cardinal so and so, when sought for an opinion on this or that, does not have the wherewithal to decline a media spotlight. By pandering to the media, they only demonstrate a lack of reservation for the spiritual dignity and nature of the Conclave.

I think that’s not the fairest assessment. Responding to a request for interview is hardly “pandering to the media.” People – including Catholics – read and watch the news. I’d rather the news outlets be able to get responses from our bishops and cardinals rather than rely on sound bites from this or that loopy theologian. It’s a teachable moment. There is no need for them to lock the doors and say “no comment.”

When the conclave comes, I have no doubt they will treat it with the appropriate spiritual dignity. But until then, I don’t see the problem with them giving answers to the questions that people have.

 

[Joe_5859]

Oh agreed, I am not surprised this is occurring and while the American Cardinals know to be VERY careful about what they say to the media, perhaps Cardinal Turkson or others were not so aware of how their words would be twisted, taken out of context or simply misquoted. Cardiinal Dolan said something on the order of “people must be smoking dope to think I have a chance” which was a bit unartful although typical of his exhuberant style.

I was speaking more of those outside ‘campaigns’ such as on Facebook or Twitter that might actually backfire with respect to the Cardinals who probably do not worry about how many "likes’ they receive!

Lisa

Yes, people do get carried away with those Facebook groups.

 

[Santi2]

I think that’s not the fairest assessment. Responding to a request for interview is hardly “pandering to the media.” People – including Catholics – read and watch the news. I’d rather the news outlets be able to get responses from our bishops and cardinals rather than rely on sound bites from this or that loopy theologian. It’s a teachable moment. There is no need for them to lock the doors and say “no comment.”

When the conclave comes, I have no doubt they will treat it with the appropriate spiritual dignity. But until then, I don’t see the problem with them giving answers to the questions that people have.

Teachable moments? Good heavens, Joe. Just goes to show where we are as Catholics and as a Church. I have been through six Popes in my lifetime and we did not need to have “teachable moments” because we were taught well. We knew what sede vacante and the Conclave meant. Cardinals/Bishops went about their business quietly. In the meantime, we waited. We prayed. There was none of this “need-to-know” malarkey.

 

[Deerslyr]

Teachable moments? Good heavens, Joe. Just goes to show where we are as Catholics and as a Church. I have been through six Popes in my lifetime and we did not need to have “teachable moments” because we were taught well. We knew what sede vacante and the Conclave meant. Cardinals/Bishops went about their business quietly. In the meantime, we waited. We prayed. There was none of this “need-to-know” malarkey.

I think a lot of this “need to know” comes out of a 24/7 News Cycle. We can access information on a moments notice just by plugging in. I turned 7 years old the day after the 2nd Conclave of 1978 commenced. At the time, we were stationed overseas on Guam (Air Force) and news was slow to get to Guam. We didn’t have the coverage there that the mainland was accustomed to, and certainly not what we are accustomed to today. Well, you have to consider that there has only been one Conclave during the Information Superhighway Era, and this is just the second. If they become more frequent, we likely won’t see this level of “what does it mean/how does it work?”

As for me… I’ve been praying every day. I do find a thirst for knowledge on this. I have some stuff going on in my life that is tough, and as a result I am leaning heavily on my faith to help get me through. Focusing on the next Pope is allowing me to explore my faith even more.

I’m sure that when the Cardinal’s are not fielding questions from reporters, that they are heavily engaged in prayer and discernment.

 

[Elizabeth502]

I think a lot of this “need to know” comes out of a 24/7 News Cycle.

Good point. So many of us are artificially impatient, with regard to a process that should not be ‘sped up.’ We’ve become used to “instant” results, including when it comes to our own political election returns (and the premature reporting of those). And as for the media, it abhors a vacuum of drama, and thus is motivated to create one out of thin air.

I’m sure that when the Cardinal’s are not fielding questions from reporters, that they are heavily engaged in prayer and discernment.

And let’s add to those prayers this Lent.

Good comments by many here.

 

[petronus]

I have been through six Popes in my lifetime and we did not need to have “teachable moments” because we were taught well. We knew what sede vacante and the Conclave meant. Cardinals/Bishops went about their business quietly.

I too have been through six popes in my lifetime .

I think it is rather naive to think that during the time leading up to the election of these six popes that the cardinals “went about their business quietly” .

In the real world those cardinals of the past were debating , discussing , campaigning , “Church politicking” etc. , but the lack of media coverage at the time left those outside the inner circle in the dark .

The history of past papal elections shows that many of them were fraught with intrigue .

 

[Santi2]

I too have been through six popes in my lifetime .

I think it is rather naive to think that during the time leading up to the election of these six popes that the cardinals “went about their business quietly” .

In the real world those cardinals of the past were debating , discussing , campaigning , “Church politicking” etc. , but the lack of media coverage at the time left those outside the inner circle in the dark .

The history of past papal elections shows that many of them were fraught with intrigue .

And, whatever they did, they did so quietly. All information obtained on previous Conclaves have only been reported after they have taken place and worth noting that many “intrigues and politicking” are plain conjectures. Do mind that whilst Cardinals may be fallible men, the Holy Spirit does not do politics. And, pray tell. Why should the inner circle invite outsiders who have no direct authority and competence whatsoever with business concerning the Conclave?

 

[Vouthon]

irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2013/0219/1224330204462.html

Cardinal’s comments suggest race has begun

PADDY AGNEW in Rome

**The successor to Pope Benedict XVI may well be a non-European cardinal, a senior Curia cardinal has suggested **– an indication that the canvassing has well and truly begun.

The idea is certainly not new to church commentators but it assumes another dimension when stated by a current Curia cardinal.

In an interview in yesterday’s Rome newspaper, La Repubblica, Portuguese cardinal José Saraiva Martins, former prefect of the Vatican’s Congregation for the Cause of Saints, said: “**A vast and authoritative range of candidates, who reflect the truly universal and not just European nature of the church, will present themselves at the conclave [papal election].

“Therefore, the big surprise may come from faraway places such as Asia, Africa and Latin America.”**

Universal church

Asked for a prediction, he added: “The next conclave is open to just about any surprise because this is a universal church and . . .** in the end I wouldn’t be surprised if the chosen one ended up being a young cardinal, like the Filipino Luis Antonio Tagle, or it could be a figure like [Italian cardinal] Gianfranco Ravasi.”

Both Cardinal Tagle (55) and Cardinal Ravasi (70), president of the Pontifical Council of Culture, have featured prominently on the shortlists that mushroomed last week.

Cardinal Tagle is seen by supporters as a charismatic figure who has emphasised the church’s social teachings.**

Appointed only last autumn by Pope Benedict, he made a favourable impression at the Symposium For Healing and Renewal held in Rome in February 2012.

Then, he said that in the Philippines he faced problems of clerical sex abuse, not in relation to paedophile incidents, but rather concerning priests who kept mistresses. At the Synod of Bishops in Rome last autumn, he called for a “humbler, simpler church with a greater capacity for silence”.

Italian candidate

Cardinal Ravasi has long been one of the leading Italian candidates for pope. A sophisticated intellectual well known for his penchant for citing literary references, this week he is leading the Vatican’s Lenten spiritual exercises. This means he gives three talks daily to the Vatican Curia, including Pope Benedict, for all of this week.

Other pre-conclave news concerns two American cardinals, the Archbishop of New York Tim Dolan and the Archbishop of Los Angeles, Roger Mahony.

The former suggested in an interview that only people who smoked a “lot of pot” could consider him a papal candidate while the latter remains the object of a campaign by some US Catholics calling for him not to attend the conclave because of his handing of clerical sex abuse cases in his archdiocese.

I have great respect for both Tagle and Ravasi. They are men, I think, whom Catholics would take to their hearts globally. I was thus encouraged by reading the above (even though I am open to whomsoever the cardinals pick, since they’re are so many talented men among them).

The Portugese Cardinal above is not eligible to vote in the Conclave this year because he is now 81, however he is a former curialist and is involved currently in the discussions prior to the conclave where cardinals pick out their favoured candidates.

It is thus quite interesting to hear his views.

 

[petronus]

And, pray tell. Why should the inner circle invite outsiders who have no direct authority and competence whatsoever with business concerning the Conclave?

I don’t know .

Who is saying they should ?