Papal candidates - Short List?

  • Thread starter Thread starter mh2007
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
LisaA said:
Listening to George Wiegel now. Cardinal Tagle was brought up when he wasn’t on Weigel’s short list. He thinks Cardinal Tagle is too young at 55 to be seriously considered.

No comment yet regarding Cardinal Turkson.
Click to expand...
Lisa, thank you for returning it to the discussion at hand, which some of us were in fact engaging in. 😉 I also think that Tagle is “too young,” but that’s only based on the kind of information which you also heard, since I am no more of an expert than any other CAF’er!

As to Turkson, someone did bring that up today. Maybe it was on EWTN or MSNBC, not sure which, but the commentator said that Turkson is not a serious contender. One big problem apparently is that Turkson has said he “would like to be Pope.”

I repeat, though, what I said before, in that there is no way that any Cardinal has all the desired characeristics of a new Pope which have been enumerated by many Cardinals and others in the Church (lay & clergy). In fact, some of the desired characteristics contradict each other, or imply contradictions. They’re going to have to select based on what the majority considers the most pressing needs currently, and which Cardinal(s) meet those needs best.
 
Brendan_64 said:
That is a matter of opinion, your opinion. The fact is that the Church is not opposed to Socialism per se, but rather the atheism and totalitarianism that is associated with certain forms of “socialism”. Whether or not you think that Socialism has many bad exemplars (or even if it has) is not the issue. Democratic Socialism, as seen in the Labour movement in the UK, Europe, and elsewhere (even in the USA) is NOT condemned by the Church. So long as Socialism is not atheistic or totalitarian in nature, the Church has no issue with it.

CCC 2425 also states “A theory that makes profit the exclusive norm and ultimate end of economic activity is morally unacceptable”. I don’t know, but I have met some very ‘successful’ capitalists who do in fact appear to regard profit as the exclusive and ultimate end of economic activity. I think that it was this issue that Cardinal Tagle was addressing during his sermon in Quebec.

It is a bit tiresome when people try to imply that somehow the Church is naturally aligned with the Right. The fact is that the Church is aligned with neither the Right or the Left.
Click to expand...
Rerum Novarum:

“Hence, it is clear that the main tenet of socialism, community of goods, must be utterly rejected, since it only injures those whom it would seem meant to benefit, is directly contrary to the natural rights of mankind, and would introduce confusion and disorder into the commonwealth. The first and most fundamental principle, therefore, if one would undertake to alleviate the condition of the masses, must be the inviolability of private property.”

Pope Pius XI:

”no one can be at the same time a good Catholic and a true socialist”

Or, to put it another way:

‘The trouble with socialism is socialism. The trouble with capitalism is capitalists.’”

(Willi Schlamm)

Social ISM. Capital** ISTS**. See the diff? I hope so, Brendan 64.

Ishii
 
RobbyS said:
There is no “socialism per se.” that is not hostile to religion. Ditto, the laissez faire liberalism that animated the actions of the Liberals in German and Italy in the 19th century, because EACH reduces men to economic animals. The pope have taken on “comsumerism,” but this is pushed by socialist governments as much as governments dominated by business interests. The idea that human happiness is determined by their material well-being, is however, an integral part of socialist government. Just look at the actions of the present French government.
Click to expand...
This is a very interesting opinion, but it is your opinion and doesn’t reflect the teachings of our Church. The fact is that our Church is not opposed to Socialism, but only atheism or totalitarianism that can be associated with certain extremes of socialism. The Church is as much opposed to the concept of laissez-faire, unregulated, free-market economics (as is promoted ideologically by certain elements of mainstream parties on the right of the sprectrum).

We are all entitled to hold our own opinions on such matters, but ultimately it is for our Church to decide what it views as being opposed to it’s work on Earth.

The Church is not inherently more aligned with the Right than the Left (CCC 2425 makes this clear) ever certain people who hold personal views about the merits of Right or Left try to spin things to convince themselves that the Church’s teachings are in line with their own secular, economic and political views of the world.

As to the main tenet of socialism argument, democratic socialist (including governments that are governed by democratic socialist parties, do not reject private ownership of property. Democratic socialism is about striving to achieve a fairer redistribution of wealth, and leveling the wealth differential between the rich and poor in our society. All democratic governments collect taxes (which does then effectively become collectively owned) the argument is about how much tax is collected and how it is distributed within society. The Church does** not **have an issue with greater wealth redistribution of tax revenue, spending more on those in our society that own less.

Sometimes I expect people to pop up and argue that the Church is in favour of the right of individuals to own semi-automatic rifles.
 
I wouldn’t be shocked if the Church had a lay female cardinal eventually. They can’t be ordained (and I also believe they cannot be ordained as deacons either) but lay cardinals are historical and I don’t see why a nun or a laywoman couldn’t have that role. I’m not supporting it, but I don’t see it being that big of a scandal.
 
_Abyssinia said:
Women protest all-male conclave to elect new pope

I say as a female, this is shameful
Click to expand...
There would be no Roman Catholic Church without the Resurrection of Jesus Christ , and it was to a woman , Mary Magdalene , that he first appeared. Quite a distinct honor , wouldn’t you say?

Also , the greatest advocate for , and protectress of , the Roman Catholic Church is the Blessed Vigin Mary.

Women are already esteemed to the highest degree by the Church , and it’s members. Ave Maria!!
 
unafraid said:
There would be no Roman Catholic Church without the Resurrection of Jesus Christ , and it was to a woman , Mary Magdalene , that he first appeared. Quite a distinct honor , wouldn’t you say?

Also , the greatest advocate for , and protectress of , the Roman Catholic Church is the Blessed Vigin Mary.

Women are already esteemed to the highest degree by the Church , and it’s members. Ave Maria!!
Click to expand...
And the protestants complain that we honour the BVM. Whatever we do, we get attacked.
 
_Abyssinia said:
Women protest all-male conclave to elect new pope

I say as a female, this is shameful
Click to expand...
I am laughing out loud! The Lord will use even pink smoke to get His message across. I ran into our pastor just before Mass this morning and told him this story. He used it as a springboard for a catechism lesson (incorporating it into the homily) as to why women may not be priests. Sadly, the women in our parish advocating for a female priesthood were conspicuously absent from Mass.
 
Tigg said:
I am laughing out loud! The Lord will use even pink smoke to get His message across. I ran into our pastor just before Mass this morning and told him this story. He used it as a springboard for a catechism lesson (incorporating it into the homily) as to why women may not be priests. Sadly, the women in our parish advocating for a female priesthood were conspicuously absent from Mass.
Click to expand...
Actually, I half suggested earlier on in this that they should use RED smoke to indicate an unsuccessful ballot…since they had so much trouble with the white/black/grey smoke last time. Seems like they got it right yesterday and this morning though.
 
Elizabeth502 said:
Lisa, thank you for returning it to the discussion at hand, which some of us were in fact engaging in. 😉 I also think that Tagle is “too young,” but that’s only based on the kind of information which you also heard, since I am no more of an expert than any other CAF’er!

As to Turkson, someone did bring that up today. Maybe it was on EWTN or MSNBC, not sure which, but the commentator said that Turkson is not a serious contender. One big problem apparently is that Turkson has said he “would like to be Pope.”

I repeat, though, what I said before, in that there is no way that any Cardinal has all the desired characeristics of a new Pope which have been enumerated by many Cardinals and others in the Church (lay & clergy). In fact, some of the desired characteristics contradict each other, or imply contradictions. They’re going to have to select based on what the majority considers the most pressing needs currently, and which Cardinal(s) meet those needs best.
Click to expand...
And that is going to be a real conundrum. We need an evangelizer, a manager, and a great communictor in addition to the requirement that the Pope be the spiritual leader of the faithful, orthodox and holy. As the various commentators focus on this or that candidate the positive characteristics of one (great manager, pastoral experience, intellect, languages spoken) are countered by various negatives.

The Cardinals have a HEAVY responsibility and all who were commenting from Rome said you could see the seriousness on their faces as they processed into the Sistine Chapel…EVEN Cardinal Dolan who generally exhibits a jovial demeanor.

Lisa
 
_Abyssinia said:
Catholics United is pushing for Sr Simone Campbell for Pope

creativeminorityreport.com/2013/03/catholics-united-pushes-sister-simone.html
Click to expand...
God help us…

I was listening to EWTN this morning and some discussion of various heretical elements. I wondered is it just me or does it seem like the females are more likely to advance truly outrageous ideas? Is there an equivalent of “Nuns on the Bus” or Sr. Simone among the priesthood?

Eve’s equivocation and false reasoning is still alive and well among her daughters.
Lisa
 
Brendan_64 said:
This is a very interesting opinion, but it is your opinion and doesn’t reflect the teachings of our Church. The fact is that our Church is not opposed to Socialism, but only atheism or totalitarianism that can be associated with certain extremes of socialism. The Church is as much opposed to the concept of laissez-faire, unregulated, free-market economics (as is promoted ideologically by certain elements of mainstream parties on the right of the sprectrum).

We are all entitled to hold our own opinions on such matters, but ultimately it is for our Church to decide what it views as being opposed to it’s work on Earth.

The Church is not inherently more aligned with the Right than the Left (CCC 2425 makes this clear) ever certain people who hold personal views about the merits of Right or Left try to spin things to convince themselves that the Church’s teachings are in line with their own secular, economic and political views of the world.

As to the main tenet of socialism argument, democratic socialist (including governments that are governed by democratic socialist parties, do not reject private ownership of property. Democratic socialism is about striving to achieve a fairer redistribution of wealth, and leveling the wealth differential between the rich and poor in our society. All democratic governments collect taxes (which does then effectively become collectively owned) the argument is about how much tax is collected and how it is distributed within society. The Church does** not **have an issue with greater wealth redistribution of tax revenue, spending more on those in our society that own less.

Sometimes I expect people to pop up and argue that the Church is in favour of the right of individuals to own semi-automatic rifles.
Click to expand...
You put the softest connotation on the word “socialism.” But since the word was coined, it has always had utopian connotations and was early cast in the form of an ideology in which religion has very little place. Of course we must always be aware of the dangerous of a concentration of wealth, because those who own the wealth of a society own the government and make laws which will preserve their hold on wealth. But socialism has eschewed anything like populism in favor of a concentration of power in the state. Such a concentration has always been a danger for Christians and the Church. There is nothing “liberal”about it, in the true sense. It exaults power as the greatest good, and aims to control who gets the assets of society.
 
LisaA said:
God help us…

I was listening to EWTN this morning and some discussion of various heretical elements. I wondered is it just me or does it seem like the females are more likely to advance truly outrageous ideas? Is there an equivalent of “Nuns on the Bus” or Sr. Simone among the priesthood?

Eve’s equivocation and false reasoning is still alive and well among her daughters.
Lisa
Click to expand...
These people act irresponsibly because they have no “power” in the hierarchy, and they wrongly lust after it to the point of rejecting the authority of the bishop. They are like the medieval radicals, whose attitude wasquite opposed to that of Francis, who was a much a social innovators as they but who was loyal to the Church. Francis so little craved power that his friends had to twist his arm to get to have a rule made. He did not even become a priest, did not have the same standing as an abbot. Ambition did not gnaw at his entrails.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top