Papal exhortation avoids clear statement on Communion

[kyrie03]

1. For this reason, a pastor cannot feel that it is enough simply to apply moral laws to those living in “irregular” situations, as if they were stones to throw at people’s lives. This would be- speak the closed heart of one used to hiding be- hind the Church’s teachings, “sitting on the chair of Moses and judging at times with superiority and superficiality difficult cases and wounded families”.349

Pope Francis is not ambiguous here - he seems to be saying that those who apply moral law to irregular situations lack mercy and worse, are committing sin of rash judging.

1. In every situation, when dealing with those who have difficulties in living God’s law to the full, the invitation to pursue the via caritatis must be clearly heard. Fraternal charity is the first law of Christians (cf. Jn 15:12; Gal 5:14).

Silly me, I thought the first and greatest Commandment was to: Love God with your whole heart, soul and mind and the second was the fraternal -to love neighbor as yourself. (Matt 22:37)

 

[Padres1969]

So after months of hand wringing, worries that Pope Francis was some “evil liberal” who was going to overthrow centuries of church doctrine, etc… nothing really changed at all. :doh2:

 

[Brendan]

Pope Francis is not ambiguous here - he seems to be saying that those who apply moral law to irregular situations lack mercy and worse, are committing sin of rash judging.)

You misread the Pope, note the caveat, “as if they were stones to throw at people’s lives”. That caveat was missing from your assessment.

To use the Moral Law as if it were 'stones to throw at people’s lives" is quite a separate matter from assting those in irregular situations to apply the Moral Law and live by it. It still remains a necessity in our lives to do so.

And nothing the Pope said changed that.

 

[LittleFlower378]

I have not read the document yet but only skimmed a few articles by NCR and Fox News(which said the Pope says that we should not follow dogma but instead our own conscience which is very troubling) so I hate to make a comment.

Maybe the Pope is trying to somehow bring together pastoral care and doctrine. I hope that is the case because its not one or the other, its BOTH AND. Does not Pastoral Care flow from Doctrine?

 

[LittleFlower378]

In my own life, the biggest conversion experiences I have had, have been through the people and priests that straight out told me to change my life. Maybe its different with others???

I suppose throwing stones would be different, but that is going to get mixed up with the media as well. Any form of correction is going to be throwing stones.

 

[shockerfan]

I have not read the document yet but only skimmed a few articles by NCR and Fox News(which said the Pope says that we should not follow dogma but instead our own conscience which is very troubling) so I hate to make a comment.

Maybe the Pope is trying to somehow bring together pastoral care and doctrine. I hope that is the case because its not one or the other, its BOTH AND. Does not Pastoral Care flow from Doctrine?

The pope isn’t changing any doctrine or discipline…read his writings in the context of the Catechism and you’ll be fine.

 

[LittleFlower378]

Here is a point:

All of Vatican II documents are orthodox. The problem is clergy and people that didnt interpret the documents correctly. Hence you have clown masses and all sorts of liberal moral ideas within the Church.

All of what Pope Francis says is orthodox. The problem is clergy and people that will not interpret him correctly.

 

[Lormar]

Would someone be so kind as to give me a link to the document in English?

 

[kyrie03]

1. The teaching of moral theology should not fail to incorporate these considerations, for although it is quite true that concern must be shown for the integrity of the Church’s moral teaching, special care should always be shown to emphasize and encourage the highest and most central values of the Gospel, particularly the primacy of charity as a response to the completely gratuitous offer of God’s love. At times we find it hard to make room for God’s unconditional love in our pastoral activity.** We put so many conditions on mercy that we empty it of its concrete meaning and real significance. That is the worst way of watering down the Gospel.** It is true, for example, that mercy does not exclude justice and truth, but first and foremost we have to say that mercy is the fullness of justice and the most radiant manifestation of God’s truth. For this reason, we should always consider “inad- equate any theological conception which in the end puts in doubt the omnipotence of God and, especially, his mercy”.

This is theme I saw repeated throughout the exhortation. If mercy is the fullness of justice and truth, would it not make sense to first, lovingly teach the truth that sin gravely offends God and His mercy is offered to those who repent?
Guess I am struggling to find in this document that horror of offending God should take primacy. Extending mercy to the neighbor naturally flows from love of God, not the other way around.

 

[deaconjohnO]

The pope isn’t changing any doctrine or discipline…read his writings in the context of the Catechism and you’ll be fine.

Yes on this. Since the catechism clearly states divorced and civilly married Catholics are barred from communion unless they live a life of continence.

So in light of the CCC the pope is saying there is no flexibility in the situation regarding communion for those in an adulterous situation.

There need is to be passionate enough to get them out of their state of mortal sin.

Like the woman caught in adultery. Love em but tell em the truth. And allowing them to participate in communion in such a state is NOT loving em.

 

[OraLabora]

In my own life, the biggest conversion experiences I have had, have been through the people and priests that straight out told me to change my life. Maybe its different with others???

Yes, it was sort of the case for me. Not a priest but the Bible which I read just before coming back to the Church.

But one must recognize not all changes are instantaneous. It took me a few years, for instance, to regularize my marriage because at first my wife wouldn’t cooperate, but then time and the Holy Spirit softened her to Catholicism (especially after my involvement with Benedictines) and she agreed to convalidation.

We have to recognize that it may take time to regularize some situations and sacramental grace can be instrumental in supporting people in these situations, provided they are properly disposed. The document says so explicitly in footnote 351, that the Church’s support can include the sacraments in some cases.

 

[rose_kelly]

From the comments section CNA article- Dan Hesco. catholicnewsagency.com/news/no-doctrine-change-from-pope-francis-but-a-call-for-better-pastoral-care-85474/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+catholicnewsagency%2Fdailynews+%28CNA+Daily+News%29&utm_term=daily+news

“As a conservative priest and pastor of a suburban parish for 20 plus years, I welcome the pastoral. I believe firmly in doctrinal purity, but there must be an Avenue for pastoral realities.
Although I believe the Doctrine of the Church and the teachings of the Scripture are black and white, most people living in the faith are in the middle between the black and white in the grey.
I believe this document may help bishops and pastors to lead people with compassion in their Christian journey”.

 

[JimG]

A short commentary about the Exhortation, by Fr. James V. Schall:

catholicworldreport.com/Item/4696/in_iamoris_laetitiai_who_is_admonishing_whom.aspx

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I really feel for the next pope. He will have a lot of confusion to deal with. Meanwhile, I feel like my church, my faith, is being weakened in a world where we need strength.

When sin is not sin and the Eucharist is something to be used as a carrot on the end of a stick I just don’t know where to turn.

 

[exnihilo]

And what about those who’s marriages aren’t and can’t be annulled? Every time I see people talk about the process these days it sounds like we’re basically going to “fancy Catholic divorce”.

It does disturb me how annulments are talked about. It is commonly said you need to get an annulment as if it is something you just get like a civil divorce. An annulment is something that is discovered.

Or the long established 2nd marriage with a full family of children whose separation could cause harm to said children. People who may desire to be in communion with the Church, but struggle with the reality that living and supporting children together leads to intimacy.

Typically in those situations harm has already been done to a set of children, the first. If our society was so worried about children there wouldn’t be so much divorce in the first place. The real social concern is with the happiness of the adults.

The Church has survived precisely because in definitive teachings that aren’t blurred. if the answer to the questions “If I am divorced and remarried without an annulment, can I receive communion?” is “that depends…”, then nothing but confusion or intentional ignorance on the part of the members.

One reason I converted was because I sought clear teachings. I was disheartened by the wide open world of mainline Protestantism. Mercy can’t exist apart from justice which requires rules. The thing is the rules really aren’t that hard. We may not like to obey them but that problem lies with us not the rules. I haven’t read the document myself so I make no judgement on its content. But I can say there are people out there searching for clear rules and not ambiguity.

 

[OraLabora]

Would someone be so kind as to give me a link to the document in English?

If you open the Vatican.va website and select “English” as your language, you’ll get a pop-up linking to it directly.

 

[Pug]

First kyrie03 quotes the Pope (bolding was Kyrie’s, I think):306. In every situation, when dealing with those who have difficulties in living God’s law to the full, the invitation to pursue the via caritatis must be clearly heard. Fraternal charity is the first law of Christians (cf. Jn 15:12; Gal 5:14).
Then Kyrie03 notes:

Silly me, I thought the first and greatest Commandment was to: Love God with your whole heart, soul and mind and the second was the fraternal -to love neighbor as yourself. (Matt 22:37)

Note that the Pope says first law of “Christians”. The greatest commandment in the Law and the second that is like it are from the Old Testament. Of course Christians use them and they appear in the NT, but they first appear in the OT. So I think by using words “first law of Christians” that probably intends to refer to something new, a new law from the New Testament, something that is called by Jesus to be “my commandment”, and a “new commandment” the commandment to “love one another as I (Jesus) have loved you”.

 

[shockerfan]

Yes on this. Since the catechism clearly states divorced and civilly married Catholics are barred from communion unless they live a life of continence.

So in light of the CCC the pope is saying there is no flexibility in the situation regarding communion for those in an adulterous situation.

There need is to be passionate enough to get them out of their state of mortal sin.

Like the woman caught in adultery. Love em but tell em the truth. And allowing them to participate in communion in such a state is NOT loving em.

I like quoting Archbishop Chaput: “Truth without compassion wounds and repels; mercy without truth is a comfortable form of lying” (from his weekly column, Oct 15, 2015)

 

[Thorolfr]

CNN breaking news headline

“In a highly anticipated paper, Pope Francis urges greater acceptance of gay men, lesbians, divorced Catholics and other people living in what the Catholic Church calls “irregular” situations.”

Maybe he is being misquoted , maybe he is not:
That’s what happens when you are not clear

Here’s what the Guardian has to say about the “greater acceptance of gay men, lesbians…”

The church’s traditional definition of same-sex relationships as “intrinsically disordered” is notably absent from the exhortation, however.

Martin Pendergast, a Catholic LGBT activist in London, said the tone marked a new approach. The pope “clearly recognises the existence and experience of people in same-sex unions, although it’s still not willing to equate such unions with marriage. But the door is still open. Conservatives won’t like this document,” he said.

theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/08/pope-francis-urges-compassion-for-all-in-landmark-statement-on-family-values-catholic-church

 

[Little_Sheep]

I have only read about half of it and I started with Chapter 4. It is beautifully written.

One very clear message in the Pope’s own words:

“It … can no longer simply be said that all those in any ‘irregular’ situation are living in a state of mortal sin and are deprived of sanctifying grace.”

I find it fascinating that, throughout the exhortation, he puts scare quotes around the word irregular when he uses that word to discuss marriages, relationships, unions. I appreciate that very much.

I also find it interesting that he does not use scare quotes when he is discussing homosexual unions. While he is clear that homosexual unions cannot be considered analogous to what the Catholic Church considers marriage to be, he does recognize that same-sex unions have value (such as stability).

Looking forward to reading the rest. All in all, this exhortation is very in keeping with what many have come to expect from this Pope - it is gentle, loving, open, nuanced and Spirit-filled.

I’ve read a few articles concerning what some interpret as ambiguity, but, imho, this exhortation just fleshes out the primacy of conscience that Vatican II also touches on. Primacy of Conscience is very key throughout this document. He seems to say - a number of times and in a number of different ways - that the Church simply cannot figure out every situation a human might encounter by tossing rigid, black & white rules at that human. Ultimately, each of us has to figure out complex situations for ourselves. This is a key factor in our individual relationships with God and God’ s creation.

Another one if my favorite lines from AL:

“We put so many conditions on mercy that we empty it of its concrete meaning and real significance. That is the worst way of watering down the Gospel. It is true, for example, that mercy does not exclude justice and truth, but first and foremost we have to say that mercy is the fullness of justice and the most radiant manifestation of God’s truth.”