Papal Mass in DC (was it me or was the music crazy?)

[MrS]

MrS…According to Church Doctrine (Catechism, Vatican II, Canon Law) The PEOPLE determine the style of worship. The CHURCH determines the guidelines within how the Mass is to be celebrated and entrusts the Bishops to oversee that.

There is NO CHURCH DOCTRINE concerning the authority of the people determining style of worship.

Where ever did you get that idea? Do you know what a Church Doctrine is? Do you know who is permitted to be a liturgist?

Your last sentence contradicts the first.

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[qubica]

I didn’t see the whole Mass because I was at work so I may have missed something, but other then preferences and it might not be the right song at the right time, there were no violations.

I understand, Marauder, but the frustration you are seeing is not just with today’s Mass at Nationals Stadium, it is with the celebration of the liturgy at many of our local parishes.

The focus on some of the musical aspects of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is become about performance and an emotional human connection - less about total focus on God and his magnificence. Hence, during Communion at the Holy Father’s Mass today, people broke into applause after a choir song when they should’ve been quietly giving thanks for the Eucharist. This is, in fact, wrong and not in the ‘rubrics’.

Pax

 

[frommi]

I understand, Marauder, but the frustration you are seeing is not just with today’s Mass at Nationals Stadium, it is with the celebration of the liturgy at many of our local parishes.

The focus on some of the musical aspects of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is become about performance and an emotional human connection - less about total focus on God and his magnificence. Hence, during Communion at the Holy Father’s Mass today, people broke into applause after a choir song when they should’ve been quietly giving thanks for the Eucharist. This is, in fact, wrong and not in the ‘rubrics’.

Pax

And when the Pope entered th basiclia for evening prayer last night, his own bishops started clapping for him when they should have been ‘focused on God’…

What exactly is your point?

 

[peacelight]

I pray that the Holy Father did not approve. I also pray that, if he did not approve, he will publicly let his feelings be known. Sometimes I just cannot bring myself to go to Sunday Mass, because I know that I will be scandalized by the music. If Pope Benedict XVI will only tell the American bishops that this is totally unacceptable and if the media is able to get that message to those who witnessed this blasphemy, perhaps some good will have come from it.

To go from the perfection of the governmental ceremony yesterday to this embarrassing ceremony constructed by liturgists is astonishing. The people at the White House were better able to understand the Holy Father than his own people were. This is a very sad day, brightened only by the presence of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament and by the presence of the Holy Father. Actually, that is quite a lot

It doesn’t seems right to me BrownGinger. We should not persecute the Church just because the music is wrong and not what we want to hear and that stop you from going to MASS. Same goes with the sex abuse and this make some Catholic walk away from the Church. Jesus did not promise happy peaceful church instead He knows there will bad apples in the Church. We are all sinners. Do not take this reason for not attending MASS because Church always sinless but we are Her members that sin again and again and rebel against her.

By not going and those who ashame in going to MASS because of one of these reason is just like putting our Lord Jesus Christ on the cross again. We should not punished the Church.

 

[wnt2bHis]

MrS…I’m sorry to have offended you so gravely. Please forgive me.

I say we all go do a little research so we can understand fully what Church Doctrine prescribes for our Mass. It’s our right and responsibility to be fully informed and formed.

In the meantime, let’s not forget the 50,000 souls that celebrated the Eucharist today…let’s celebrate in glory of which we have seen with our eyes.

 

[neat62]

This was downright embarrassing…the “mult-cultural” junk has NO PLACE in Mass.

The one great thing about the Catholic Mass is that we are all supposed to find that common link…that we are all a part of the ONE BODY of Christ…period! Meaning…all masses the world over should appear the same…I should be able to walk into ANY church around the world and find myself at home…not totally confused!

I have the tape on now…and I am so disgusted watching this vulgar display…there’s no reverence given. This is a circus…I hope Pope Benedict goes home and BLASTS the US Bishops who put on this nauseating display.

In the meantime…there are some very bad news articles and websites making ridiculous claims and Catholics should be ready to stand up and refute the accusations and disgusting comments being made about the Holy Father and the entire Cathoic Church.

Here’s one for example:
comments.breitbart.com/080417091135sjektd07/?commentspage=2

I am appalled at the comments and the lack of ignorance of the author!

The full text of Pope Benedict’s speech last night can be found here:

bloodtoiltearsandsweat.blogspot.com/

(My blog, where any and all comments are welcome!)

 

[qubica]

And when the Pope entered th basiclia for evening prayer last night, his own bishops started clapping for him when they should have been ‘focused on God’…

What exactly is your point?

I’m sorry frommi that you didn’t understand that we are talking about Liturgical abuses WITHIN the Mass. Not a welcoming to the Pope upon entering a room.

That is my point, exactly!

 

[frommi]

I’m sorry frommi that you didn’t understand that we are talking about Liturgical abuses WITHIN the Mass. Not a welcoming to the Pope upon entering a room.

That is my point, exactly!

Really…because the Pope was entering in procession during a LITURGY…it was part of the service…

Again, I’m still looking for someone to find a rubrical abuse that occurred during today’s mass. Not something that you don’t agree with the bishops on…an actual abuse.

 

[Marauder]

Hence, during Communion at the Holy Father’s Mass today, people broke into applause after a choir song when they should’ve been quietly giving thanks for the Eucharist. This is, in fact, wrong and not in the ‘rubrics’.

The problem here is that you are calling spontaneous applause a violation of the rubrics. It isn’t a violation of the rubrics unless the applause was requested by someone in authority. It is a case of poor teaching of the faithful not a violation of the rubrics.

 

[peacelight]

This was downright embarrassing…the “mult-cultural” junk has NO PLACE in Mass.

The one great thing about the Catholic Mass is that we are all supposed to find that common link…that we are all a part of the ONE BODY of Christ…period! Meaning…all masses the world over should appear the same…I should be able to walk into ANY church around the world and find myself at home…not totally confused!

I have the tape on now…and I am so disgusted watching this vulgar display…there’s no reverence given. This is a circus…I hope Pope Benedict goes home and BLASTS the US Bishops who put on this nauseating display.

In the meantime…there are some very bad news articles and websites making ridiculous claims and Catholics should be ready to stand up and refute the accusations and disgusting comments being made about the Holy Father and the entire Cathoic Church.

Here’s one for example:
comments.breitbart.com/080417091135sjektd07/?commentspage=2

I am appalled at the comments and the lack of ignorance of the author!

The full text of Pope Benedict’s speech last night can be found here:

bloodtoiltearsandsweat.blogspot.com/

(My blog, where any and all comments are welcome!)

I went to the site you were talking about and very sad indeed. Too many hatred out there that do not know what they are talking about. Though sex abuse and other scandals commited by Her members the Catholic Church will still be there till the end of time. They should learn and see from the history of the Church. “The gates of hell shall not prevail against it” that is the reason why we Catholic needs to stay firm and stick together though we are in turmoil I put it but we must not divide ourselves and walk away from the Church.

 

[qubica]

Frommi - I did not witness that prayer service, but if there was applause by the Bishops during an actual formal processional that is part of the liturgy, then it would be inappropriate, re: wrong.

 

[wnt2bHis]

I just realized that NONE of this argument is going to save a single soul…singing the “correct” hymn or clapping at the proper time is wasted conversation and I regret taking place and contributing to this senseless conversation.

Ana…with all do respect, your concern is recognized and appreciated. Love us enough to forgive us.

 

[neat62]

I went to the site you were talking about and very sad indeed. Too many hatred out there that do not know what they are talking about. Though sex abuse and other scandals commited by Her members the Catholic Church will still be there till the end of time. They should learn and see from the history of the Church. “The gates of hell shall not prevail against it” that is the reason why we Catholic needs to stay firm and stick together though we are in turmoil I put it but we must not divide ourselves and walk away from the Church.

Yes…I saw your post…thank you. It is disgusting to see such slander, anger and misinformation spewed.

 

[Kevin42]

I didn’t watch the mass on TV, but I am very curious now – what happened? What kind of music did they play?

Ok, well it was of course lovely, as every mass is simply by nature. However, some of the music could have been done better. I would say that it wasn’t as horrible as some here on CAF make it out to be, BUT it most certainly could have easily been better. Some of the communion hymns did seem to be the lowest point of the music (it was pretty yikes). But communion was certainly the highest point of the mass, as always!

 

[peacelight]

You have a bit of the truth there, Peacelight, but what we are concerned with is giving only the most excellent to God. This idea of ‘God doesn’t mind our music, how we dress, how we comport ourselves in His house…’ is detrimental to recognizing the true beauty of the Catholic faith. But to be truthful, I am not as worried about God, for He is merciful. I truly AM worried if our celebration of Mass leads people to transcend earthly bounds and lifts them to heaven…or if it just pleases their sense of being ‘entertained’.

Thanks for taking the time to consider this - Dominus vobiscum.

Oh! you are welcome I know what you mean - The Lord Be with you too.

 

[neat62]

Ok, well it was of course lovely, as every mass is simply by nature. However, some of the music could have been done better. I would say that it wasn’t as horrible as some here on CAF make it out to be, BUT it most certainly could have easily been better. The communion hymns did seem to be the lowest point of the music. But communion was certainly the highest point of the mass as always!

Oye…I have the replay on now its now Communion time and frankly the person singing right now is nothing short of annoying…screeching sounds…at least if they could sing, maybe it would have been better appreciated!

BLECH! This is ridiculous…feel like I am watching a Baptist choir…clapping and all…

How can one fully appreciate the Mass when there are so many distractions obvious and purposefully going on?

 

[Kevin42]

Oye…I have the replay on now its now Communion time and frankly the person singing right now is nothing short of annoying…screeching sounds…at least if they could sing, maybe it would have been better appreciated!

BLECH! This is ridiculous…feel like I am watching a Baptist choir…clapping and all…

How can one fully appreciate the Mass when there are so many distractions obvious and purposefully going on?

I have to wonder how much of it is being ruined simply because we are hearing it over TV. It seems like we are only hearing two instruments (flute and trumpet…and the little ringy things). I am wondering if it sounded a little better if you were at the stadium? Certainly there is no way the microphones could pick up the full live effect.

 

[qubica]

I just realized that NONE of this argument is going to save a single soul…singing the “correct” hymn or clapping at the proper time is wasted conversation and I regret taking place and contributing to this senseless conversation.

Ana…with all do respect, your concern is recognized and appreciated. Love us enough to forgive us.

Wow, I don’t agree with some of what has been posted, but for me every comment has been educational and thoughtful.

But actually, I’ve known family and friends who stopped going to Mass because the focus is more horizontal (community) than vertical (Trinity), and it hampered or extinguished their spiritual growth as a Christian. So while no souls can be ‘saved’ by this discussion, souls can be lost by poor execution of the liturgy given to us by the Catholic church and the Holy Spirit.

This has not been an academic exercise for blowhards, this is a real concern to many Catholics. But I can appreciate that it is, indeed, NOT a concern to you.

Peace to all of you, and thank you for joining in this attempt to voice our concerns and viewpoints!

Dominus Vobiscus!

 

[peacefulpainter]

i just went on a long nice hour long walk on a beautiful california day here in ILlinois.
I thought as I was walking that the problem was with the camera and cinematic choices.
The focus of the CAMERA was on the singers and not the Mass. the sound mixing was on the choirs and not the Mass,
when i realized that, it made me feel oh so much better.
If they had to do it over again, cinematically… it would be just as centered on Christ as the typical Mass.
I know things come across and gain weight so to speak., when on camera!~
the whole thing must have been so different in person. Lets hope!!!

 

[MrS]

MrS…I’m sorry to have offended you so gravely. Please forgive me.

I say we all go do a little research so we can understand fully what Church Doctrine prescribes for our Mass. It’s our right and responsibility to be fully informed and formed.

In the meantime, let’s not forget the 50,000 souls that celebrated the Eucharist today…let’s celebrate in glory of which we have seen with our eyes.

You have not offended me… I laud your questions and (name removed by moderator)ut.

What I find troubling is that there are protestants who are viewing this thread and smiling at the seeming “division” of those Catholics. That is hardly the case.

We worship God alone. Doctrine is what we must believe. Discipline is how we express our faith. But the Mass, while its contents express Doctrine, and its disciplines are found in the rubrics/GIRM… the Mass is the highest form of worship.

Anything that is part of the Mass should reflect the highest form of worship… be it vestments, postures, music etc. It should never become a form of entertainment, expression of fellowship, or reflection of personal cultures. It is the re-presenting of Calvary of 2000 years ago, not the presenting of music fads or clerical innovations.

There are a number of good references for the Mass, and how it should be celebrated in either the OF or the EF. You will not find any blanket authorization to make the Mass subject to the local culture.

Forgive me if I made you think you are the problem. Rather it is those who have deviated from the liturgy… and don’t even know it.

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