Papal Mass in DC (was it me or was the music crazy?)

[Siena]

Ok all, I only read the 1st 3, and last page of this thread, but wanted to put my :twocents: in.

I was there. The music, while (mostly) not to my taste, was not “forbidden”.

HOWEVER, the real problem for me was that we were ALREADY in a baseball stadium. More reverent music could have kept the focus more on the Mass. Instead, I had to strugle to remember we weren’t about to sing “Take me out to the ballgame”. (Especially as the stadium employees began cooking up the hotdogs, etc. that were to be sold after mass. VERY distracting.)

Honestly, through my binoculars, I thought the Holy Father was trying not to looked pained at points during some of the music. He did, however, seem genuinely pleased when Placido Domingo was finished singing. He sang, “Panis Angelicus” which was very moving, and made up for the rest of the “noise”.

 

[Evang1017]

I’m sorry to hear you all feel the way you do about the mass in D.C. I was there and I think it was a grand celebration! I, of course, could not see what you saw on TV, but what I experienced was a grand celebration of Church. The people present were thrilled to be with the Holy Father and from the smiles I saw he was very happy to be with us. The music was not too loud in the stadium. I think they tried to use a variety of music to speak to the multi-cultural church of the U.S. When we arrived at 6:30 a.m. the singing had already begun! We were amazed. It helped create a warm and welcoming atmosphere. I for one was very proud to be an American Catholic on that day. I was thrilled to be with the Holy Father and will remember my experience there with happy and fond memories. I’m sorry your experience was not the same.

 

[benedictgal]

I’m sorry to hear you all feel the way you do about the mass in D.C. I was there and I think it was a grand celebration! I, of course, could not see what you saw on TV, but what I experienced was a grand celebration of Church. The people present were thrilled to be with the Holy Father and from the smiles I saw he was very happy to be with us. The music was not too loud in the stadium. I think they tried to use a variety of music to speak to the multi-cultural church of the U.S. When we arrived at 6:30 a.m. the singing had already begun! We were amazed. It helped create a warm and welcoming atmosphere. I for one was very proud to be an American Catholic on that day. I was thrilled to be with the Holy Father and will remember my experience there with happy and fond memories. I’m sorry your experience was not the same.

But, when you make the multiculturalism and diversity more important than the Mass, then you’ve lost the focus. That is why many of us are disturbed. Bad music, whether experienced live or via TV coverage is never to the benefit of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The music shouldn’t speak to the multi-cultural Church because the focus should not be about us. It should be about God. When He is no longer at the center, we are merely celebrating ourselves.

 

[TOP]

Now who really is making the music more important then the Mass here?

 

[benedictgal]

Now who really is making the music more important then the Mass here?

Actually, I think you might be missing the point. Granted, the most important aspect of the Mass is the fact that we are there for the Holy Sacrifice, when you have bad music it tends to both distract and detract from the Mysteries unfolding before us.

 

[TOP]

Actually, I think you might be missing the point. Granted, the most important aspect of the Mass is the fact that we are there for the Holy Sacrifice, when you have bad music it tends to both distract and detract from the Mysteries unfolding before us.

It didn’t distract my two sons at the D.C. Mass. The snipers on the roof distracted them more then the music. Tim

 

[Evang1017]

Perhaps you should know that the Mass was one of the most touching I’ve ever attended. When the Holy Father elevated the Eucharist, my heart lept. When he elevated the cup I was united to the cross of Christ. The generations were bridged and I felt in unity with the many who have walked this journey of faith before me as well as with the Body Christ that surrounded me in that stadium and throughout the world. When I received the Eucharist I was aware that I could not look Pope Benedict in the eye or even shake his hand, but I was able, at that moment, to receive the King of Kings. It was not just a multicultural event… for me it was a “celebration” of Eucharist… Thanksgiving for what we are as Catholics, for all we believe and all we profess. I would in NO WAY minimize the celebration of the Eucharist. It is for me the peak and font of all we are. We do celebrate who we are in Christ and who He is for us every time we come to the altar.

 

[benedictgal]

It didn’t distract my two sons at the D.C. Mass. The snipers on the roof distracted them more then the music. Tim

Have you read any of the Holy Father’s writings on the liturgy? If so, then it would make sense that this kind of music certainly is not fit for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. It’s better suited for salsa/merengue clubs or jazz lounges, but, not for the Mass.

 

[TOP]

Have you read any of the Holy Father’s writings on the liturgy? If so, then it would make sense that this kind of music certainly is not fit for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. It’s better suited for salsa/merengue clubs or jazz lounges, but, not for the Mass.

Never said it was fit for the Mass. Just think that this arguement is worse then the music as far as a distraction from that Mass. Tim

 

[Joysong]

Evang,

May I be one of the first to welcome you to the forum!

I apologize that you were not welcomed and instead received a well-reheased rant from a polly parrot who silenced your joy by quacking: Music Bad, Music Bad, Music Bad.

You have the heart of a true Catholic, and I truly understand your feelings of solidarity. When I was in Rome awaiting Pope John Paul II to appear, it was just a bunch of people in a crowded arena. But when he came among us and the people were led in hymns to express their oneness, it was as if the Holy Spirit just descended upon all of us! Nobody can imagine the joy, and it is so sad that the beauty of this experience is overshadowed by legalistic people who tell you that you were NOT supposed to like it!!

And I can just imagine how much better it was for YOU!
My experience was only a prayer service, but you participated in the Holy Mass! WOW!

Carole

 

[Evang1017]

Thank you… I feel better. M

 

[TOP]

The Holy Father at D.C. “At the same time she senses, often painfully, the presence of division and polarization in her midst, as well as the troubling realization that many of the baptized, rather than acting as a spiritual leaven in the world, are inclined to embrace attitudes contrary to the truth of the Gospel.”
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20080417_washington-stadium_en.html

 

[anamchara]

Thank you… I feel better. M

:hug1: I loved the Mass. There was nothing wrong with it.

1. it was approved by the Vatican
2. What the Pope wrote in his book on Spirit and Liturgy when he was a cardinal is up for debate in terms of what he is actually referring to.
3. Some want to believe he was referring to what they personally don’t like and are using his words to promote their own agenda.
4. I plan on getting the darn thing and reading it so I can dispute the seriously bias and often rude comments made by many on here.
5. I’m hungry and need to grab a bit to eat.
6. THE POPE WAS HERE!!! :extrahappy::dancing::clapping:

 

[KathleenElsie]

The “clapping as part of a song” was in the “Calypso-style” offertory song.

I did not like the music. But then I like chant and prayer in song. That being said the song with the clapping was just another part of the bad music. OTOH the clapping during communion for the “show” did make me angry. Communion is a time of awe and wonder at having received our Lord, Body Blood Soul and Divinity.

 

[Los_Angeles]

To critics of musical selection:

Out of personal ignorance, at what point in time in the 2000+ years of our Catholic Church’s existence on earth was the music “to everyone’s liking” ?

Was it every Church service held instantaneously after Vactican II, or a gradual decline?

Were any rules in the liturgy of the Catholic Church broken during the Mass at Yankee Stadium?

Would it be considered more “Liberal” to hold a Mass at Yankee Stadium, rather than a traditional Church building, or the musical selection?

---

In my personal opinion:

The fact that there was *any music at all *(as long as it did not break any Church rules) if it helped just one person come to know God, or bring more Catholics back to the Church is far greater than a matter of personal opinion.

The fact that the Holy Father could hold a mass in such a large scale, to reach out to Catholic and non-Catholic alike seems to overshadow any personal preferences.

The fact that the Pope could hold Mass in Yankee Stadium in the first place to reach out to thousands of believers admist all the people that don’t like the Catholic Church as a whole, seems to big a greater reason for joy and celebration than any matter of personal opinion on the musical selection.

 

[benedictgal]

To critics of musical selection:

Out of personal ignorance, at what point in time in the 2000+ years of our Catholic Church’s existence on earth was the music “to everyone’s liking” ?

Was it every Church service held instantaneously after Vactican II, or a gradual decline?

Were any rules in the liturgy of the Catholic Church broken during the Mass at Yankee Stadium?

Would it be considered more “Liberal” to hold a Mass at Yankee Stadium, rather than a traditional Church building, or the musical selection?

---

In my personal opinion:

The fact that there was *any music at all *(as long as it did not break any Church rules) if it helped just one person come to know God, or bring more Catholics back to the Church is far greater than a matter of personal opinion.

The fact that the Holy Father could hold a mass in such a large scale, to reach out to Catholic and non-Catholic alike seems to overshadow any personal preferences.

The fact that the Pope could hold Mass in Yankee Stadium in the first place to reach out to thousands of believers admist all the people that don’t like the Catholic Church as a whole, seems to big a greater reason for joy and celebration than any matter of personal opinion on the musical selection.

One should base himself on what the documents of the Church say and not the fads that publishing houses like OCP are trying to push on people.

For those who insist that the music was approved by the Vatican, I would submit to you that it was in principle, only, not in the manner in which these songs were presented.

Those who insist that this music was not problematic have not read the documents nor have they shown any inclination to read the writings of the former Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger.

One other thought also comes to mind. Let’s say that the smiling man appearing on the loggia of St. Peter’s Basilica was not Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, but, someone else. Had that been the case, Cardinal Ratzinger would have returned to Bavaria and lived out his retirement as planned.

He’s already written three books on the Liturgy and has written countless other documents and delivered addresses on same. So, his views are already widely known. His detractors, many of whom perhaps are participating in the Catholic Answers liturgical threads, don’t agree with everything he has said. Again, remember, the scenario is Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger in retirement.

Let’s say that he was invited by EWTN to come and offer commentary on what happened at Nationals Stadium. I would imagine that his words would be similar, if not more direct, than Fr. Neuhaus’.

Ratzinger’s detractors would say the same thing that has been said in not a few of these threads. They would be just as critical of a retired Prefect as they would be of Fr. Neuhaus. They would, perhaps, also go so far as to say that because Ratzinger is a theologian and not a liturgist, his opinion doesn’t matter.

Therefore, I would submit to you that the words of a retired, non-papal Joseph Ratzinger would have been just as ill-received as were Fr. Neuhaus’ comments, which oddly enough, were actually referencing much of what Ratzinger had written in the first place.

 

[TOP]

The Holy Father went on to say “I ask you, in the Lord Jesus, to set aside all division and to work with joy to prepare a way for him, in fidelity to his word and in constant conversion to his will.”

 

[anamchara]

The Holy Father went on to say “I ask you, in the Lord Jesus, to set aside all division and to work with joy to prepare a way for him, in fidelity to his word and in constant conversion to his will.”

His words were beautiful. I’ve reading and trying to get caught up with a few things I missed. I’ve enjoyed this site: uspapalvisit.org/

Very positive comments on there.

 

[benedictgal]

Unfortunately, many of you are missing the point. The Holy Father was not referring to issues of music. In fact, if anything, he has been the biggest proponent of restoring the “Sacred” back into sacred music. One shouldn’t be twisting his words to justify the banality of what went on at the DC Mass. The homily and the music were poles apart.

 

[30miller]

Actually, if one was going to be an absolute purist one could make a strong case (as one poster did) that Placido Domingo’s singing was “entertainment” and drew attention to himself and distracted from the Holy Sacrifice.

MonFrere

Actually, if one was going to be an absolute purist and if one accepts what a previous poster on this thread who attended the D.C. Mass stated (- that distribution of Communion actually took place continuously even after the mass ended and the Pope was exiting the stadium) - then one can make no case whatsoever that Domingo's singing of Panis Angelicus (The Bread of Angels) while Communion was being distributed was "entertainment".  It was entirely appropriate (just as it was at Yankee Stadium when the Tenor from the Metropolitan Opera sang the same song at the same point in the mass) and he probably should have sung more until the distribution of Communion actually ended and then the Mass would have been concluded more appropriately.
And in particular it is very insulting for anyone to make the claim that Domingo sang to draw attention to himself.  Not only does he NOT need any more attention drawn to his musical talents than the worldwide adulation that he has already received - but Domingo in particular is such a humble person that when singing for the Church when he sings at his home parish he positions himself in obscurity in the back of the Church so as NOT to draw attention to himself.  He  is a man who truly understands exactly from whence his talent came and he shares that talent HUMBLY with his Church.