Papal Mass in DC (was it me or was the music crazy?)

[anamchara]

Anamchara,

Thanks for your reply. Often on these forums I will speak - in theory - without a context of my ideas needing to work among all the hard working laity among our Catholic ranks. However, whenever someone comes to our parish and wants to participate in the Mass I will always go to the priest, give my opinion, and if I get the OK of the priest then I look not so much the talent of the individual as the desire of the person to contribute to the liturgy.

On a parish level, ALL HELP IS APPRECIATED. It’s sometimes so hard to get people to make the necessary sacrifices to do a credible job. Whenever there’s a person willing to sacrifice, that person is cherished. I’m sure you and your husband are cherished in your parish.

P.S. We also sang - I Received the Living God - during the Eucharistic Liturgy at today’s Mass.

I’m sure you’re appreciated at your parish - and I’m sure it’s well deserved.

In charity,
MonFrere

Thank you for your kinds words MonFrere. It means a great deal.

 

[Cactus]

So you believe that an archbishop who knows the Holy Father from the days they worked together in the CDF decided to condone a wicked slap in the face to the Pope?

That’s just insane.

Sadly, I think so. -To the Holy Father and everything/everyone he represents.

As to my sanity, words such as “et tu Brute?” and “Dost thou betray the Son of Man with a kiss?” come to mind in my defense.

 

[Los_Angeles]

Originally Posted by Los Angeles

Actually now as of 2008, they have.

That was one of the main issues addressed during the Pope’s visit to America. Apologizing for the abuse scandals or actions of some of the priests that have rocked the Church. He apologized many times publicly during his trip to America.

But here is the logic that I was using:

#3) Was not meant to stand by itself as a singular axiom of logic, but rather building upon the premise in #2) that:

To the best of my knowledge, no rules of the Catholic Church were broken in the playing of the music at the Papal Mass in Yankee Stadium.

Whereas if there was any abuse during the Mass due to the selection of music being played, it was done in public and so far nobody has cited any references to any rules of the Catholic Church that were broken.

The fact that many of the leaders of the Catholic Church, (including the Pope) that are called to enforce those rules in the first place were physically present at the Mass in Yankee Stadium, there was no written or spoken evidience of wrongdoing.

Please forgive me for any lack of clarity.

If anything I have said is against the Catholic Church, let it be anathema.

 

[30miller]

(1) Believe it or not, … (2) I apologize if I over-estimated your abilities.
(3) When I referred to EWTN’s non-profit status it was in reference to their relationship to the cable/satellite companies, not the viewers. This was because you mentioned how EWTN does not charge them. Fair enough. Now in relation to the viewers, EWTN certainly does not charge them either, however, they must subscribe (i.e. “pay for”) a service in order to receive their signal. Naturally, they must also own a television but as that is a known and given prerequisite for every conceivable television program; no reasonable person would consider that in the equation of “free” vs. “paid”. So when you stated, “when someone gives something away and asks NOTHING whatsoever in return that is called FREE” while ONE definition of the word, you only addressed the relationship of EWTN to the cable/satellite companies, not the viewers. Viewers must ultimately pay the distributors in order to view EWTN’s product. That’s call a subscription and it comes with an expectation of recompense, I’m sorry, I mean “cost”.

(1) Not.
(2) You are forgiven.
(3) You have made your enviable humility and your multi-digit IQ more than obvious in explaining to us your unmatched credentials and how your brain works and how it goes right for the 12-letter words that no one else uses (and Yes, I did notice that you didn’t bother to give one example of anyone else using your big 12-letter word for “liar” as I asked of you and went directly to spin again). And since you seem to acknowledge that I am a master of the 4-letter variety (and I thank you for your praise) - why do you continue to apply your mega-12-letter-word mind to my specialty - e.g. FREE (4 letters) EWTN (ditto) and COST (ditto) and in so doing twist yourself into more of a knot than you already had before?

 

[chicago]

I’ve long found it curious that when a bishop is visiting some parish, that many things will get “cleaned up”, done “by the book”, and the Church will “put its best foot forward” in providing an impression and liturgy which isn’t representative of what happens there normally. Perhaps this is appropriate for such a “special event.” Maybe the presence of the bishop is even positively calling them to do something higher. Still, it isn’t reflective of where the parish actually is. As such, the bishop doesn’t get to see first hand the situation which many suffer through. He may even feel that complainers are just crying wolf for no good reason. “Well, it was alright when I was there!” In the interim, things go right back to how they really were before his visit the next day.

So here we have a situation where this did not entirely happen. Instead, the pope got to see a more accurate expression of what one might commonly experience in the U.S. Church on average. he wasn’t especially catered to just to put on a good show for the moment, while nothing would have changed in the larger scheme of things otherwise. Maybe that isn’t such a bad thing.

 

[Joysong]

aloysiusg:

My apologies for my most recent behavior. It is very un-Christianlike, but I got real tired of 30miller and his condescending attitude to people of my ilk. I had declined engaging him head-on for a while but something must have tripped in me. In any case, it is apparent to me that further posting on my part, especially as it references him, is counterproductive to the purpose of this forum.

ps Joysong, MonFrere et al - thank you for your support

No need to apologize, Al. We have seen the playground bully all over this thread
http://bestsmileys.com/cartoon/11.gif
and his brash tongue inflames a war, not peace, with deliberate taunting, baiting, and jeering.

I prayed for you yesterday after seeing that he bit you, and I bless the Lord who delivered you from his insanity.

[ps] Your welcome!

 

[benedictgal]

I’ve long found it curious that when a bishop is visiting some parish, that many things will get “cleaned up”, done “by the book”, and the Church will “put its best foot forward” in providing an impression and liturgy which isn’t representative of what happens there normally. Perhaps this is appropriate for such a “special event.” Maybe the presence of the bishop is even positively calling them to do something higher. Still, it isn’t reflective of where the parish actually is. As such, the bishop doesn’t get to see first hand the situation which many suffer through. He may even feel that complainers are just crying wolf for no good reason. “Well, it was alright when I was there!” In the interim, things go right back to how they really were before his visit the next day.

So here we have a situation where this did not entirely happen. Instead, the pope got to see a more accurate expression of what one might commonly experience in the U.S. Church on average. he wasn’t especially catered to just to put on a good show for the moment, while nothing would have changed in the larger scheme of things otherwise. Maybe that isn’t such a bad thing.

You are right in that at least the Holy Father experienced first-hand what many of us must endure in our parishes week in and week out.

Incidentally, those who detract and call the ones who don’t agree with them bullies have yet to produce on liturgical document that backs up their points. Quoting from the Catechism doesn’t help because it is a teachind document, not a regulatory one.

I am reading a book by Francis Cardinal Arinze called Celebrating the Eucharist. One chapter is devoted to inculturation. He has made the same argument that many of us have put forth: while it is laudable to reach out to the cultures, it shouldn’t be done at the expense of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. This also includes music.

He is very adamant about the Mass as a means of entertainment. What he wrote on the subject eerily resembles what occurred at the Nationals Stadium Mass (and, this is three years before the event took place).

Most of what I’ve read from the opposing camps is centered around “feelings”, with nothing substantive to back up their points. Fr. Richard John Neuhaus backs up his points with quotes from the Constitution on Sacred Liturgy and from the Holy Father’s books.

I strongly believe that the musical debacle in DC will have a serious chilling effect. Parishes will use this kind of music with the only justification being that it was performed at the Papal Mass. This point was raised on Friday’s live broadcast of the World Over, on EWTN. Someone called in and stated that there are some serious concerns about the rammifications. The CBS Vatican anaylist, a priest, noted that the Holy Father, himself, did not know what was going to be performed. The only concern from Rome was that the lyrics be doctrinally sound. However, it wasn’t so much the lyrics that were in question but the kind of settings and scores that were used to perform them.

Raymond Arroyo reiterated that the remarks were never aimed at the choirs. We need to divorce the two. The choirs had nothing to do with the selections of the pieces. They sing what they are told to sing and that is it. The real fault lies with the local planners.

 

[Michael_Neal]

This issue is comprised of much more than simply differing opinions of music preference, the Pope has weighed in on this through his writings.

The Pope’s view is what is important, our personal opinions really don’t matter in comparison.

 

[30miller]

    (1) We have seen the playground bully all over this thread and his brash tongue inflames a war, not peace, with deliberate taunting, baiting, and jeering.

(2)I prayed for you yesterday after seeing that he bit you, and I bless the Lord who delivered you from his insanity.
/

(1) It is so heartening to see all of you come together with all these kumbaya moments - and never without some good old fashioned derision and mockery of someone else thrown in as well.
(2) Please go look in the mirror and say “…he bit you,” 25 times as if you are talking to either a stranger or one of the soulmates you seem to kumbaya-up with like joysong here. Do you get it now - do you see how stupid your over-the-top hyperbole really comes across?

 

[benedictgal]

This issue is comprised of much more than simply differing opinions of music preference, the Pope has weighed in on this through his writings.

The Pope’s view is what is important, our personal opinions really don’t matter in comparison.

Exactly. However, it is quite evident that the local folks who selected the music did not read any of the documents nor the writings of the Holy Father.

 

[Walt_Oliver]

Thread closed for persistent lack of charity.