Papal nuncio: Catholic division undermines religious freedom

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NeedsMercy said:
C’mon! You didn’t answer the question, either! You are correct to be upset at Mr. Obama’s stance on abortion. I, too, am appalled, though you do not believe me. And, that, my friend, is the point of what I am trying to tell you. This thread was not a thread that was called “Hey! Let’s Trash the President!”. (That would be wrong, don’t you think?) I–silly me–thought it was about discussing Archbishop Vigano’s statement. The nice posters here turned it into an opportunity to weed out Obama-voters and abuse them. As far as your retort “Then you should not have supported etc.”, are you suggesting that I do as I had stupidly done in the past (2004) and be a one-issue voter? Tell me the truth, were you a one-issue voter? Were any of you?
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Awww poor Mr. President getting bashed because he supports the murder of innocents. The President is getting mentioned because he is the instigator of the Catholic division with his patently evil legislations.
 
JMJSHJ said:
Talk is cheap. A catholic who loves our faith, strongly believes in its teachings and doesn’t see a disconnect between just saying “I am pro life” and making a responsible vote to ensure that abortion gets reduced as much as possible. Instead you vote for the most pro abortion president ever.

Faith isn’t about words or feelings. It is about actions.
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Hmmm. So you’re saying, in my particular case, that my talk is “cheap”? And the inferences being that I do not love my faith and do not strongly believe in its teachings? Those are pretty serious charges. Besides my vote for the President (which I do not consider to be a “sin” or morally incorrect), how exactly do you know what my other “actions” are? Quit teasing me, folks! You’re all clairvoyant, right?
 
NeedsMercy said:
Hmmm. So you’re saying, in my particular case, that my talk is “cheap”? And the inferences being that I do not love my faith and do not strongly believe in its teachings? Those are pretty serious charges. Besides my vote for the President (which I do not consider to be a “sin” or morally incorrect), how exactly do you know what my other “actions” are? Quit teasing me, folks! You’re all clairvoyant, right?
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There was not proportionate reasons that would have allowed a Catholic to vote for Obama. Its really not complicated. For a Catholic to vote for Obama means they were either ignorant of Church teaching or didn’t care.
 
estesbob said:
That side of the issue is direct rejection of the teachings of the church I see that side of the issue just like i see the side of the issue of those who blow themselves up to advance their political cause. In a way i respect them more than those who support abortion-they support others being killed to support their political cause.
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You mean the side of the issue that [anonymous poster] was in favor of before he was against it? 😉 But seriously, estesbob, which sentence is in “direct rejection of the teachings of the church”? “We are real Catholics”? “We love our faith”? Which sentence? One more question: where did I **say ** that I support abortion? I do not mean “Here’s how I interpret NeedsMercy’s vote.” I want “NeedsMercy says she supports abortion in post #_____.”

Allahu Akbar!
 
NeedsMercy said:
Oh, wynnejj, you disappoint me! “The 100% Pro-Child-Abuse candidate”? You already know what kind of argument that one could make about child abuse…
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Please don’t disappoint me by arguing that abortion is not child abuse …
I can’t imagine any other argument that could be offered.
 
wynnejj said:
Please don’t disappoint me by arguing that abortion is not child abuse …
I can’t imagine any other argument that could be offered.
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  1. I will not argue that “abortion is not child abuse.”
  2. Since my original post was removed, you are the only one that “can’t imagine.”
  3. Cannot engage you any further on the whole child abuse angle.
God Bless!
 
Mickey said:
Fabulous! Thank you for this link! I love that man! I am going to forward this to the world!
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Did the other 6,999,999,998 people answer you yet? 🙂

Ah, Cardinal Arinze! (I guess we’re putting aside the Papal Nuncio for now.) Now, let’s see The Cardinal was asked about **politicians ** who **publicly ** profess to be pro-choice. (I’m not a politician. I do not publicly profess to be pro-choice because I am not.) He answered the question, despite the questioner egging him to say how the Holy See should have the American bishops stamp the aforementioned politicians “heretics” and to then “excommunicate” them. The Cardinal was wise enough to ignore those terms. Arinze correctly said that those who “vote abortion” not only are against Catholic law, but also Divine law. When he talked about people who “vote abortion” I believe that he was speaking about voters who are indeed “pro-choice”, which I am not. The rest of the video was rather silly; the whole “shoot Congress” analogy being reductio ad absurdum. My feeling, however, is that he knew exactly what he was saying, especially in light of the “Swiss Guard” joke. But, if you know, not think, that he meant something else, please enlighten me with a cite.
 
NeedsMercy said:
You mean the side of the issue that [anonymous poster] was in favor of before he was against it? 😉 But seriously, estesbob, which sentence is in “direct rejection of the teachings of the church”? “We are real Catholics”? “We love our faith”? Which sentence? One more question: where did I **say ** that I support abortion? I do not mean “Here’s how I interpret NeedsMercy’s vote.” I want “NeedsMercy says she supports abortion in post #_____.”

Allahu Akbar!
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Faith is not about sentences but actions.
Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but** he that doth the will **of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven Matthew 7:21
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And one said unto him: Behold thy mother and thy brethren stand without, seeking thee. 48 But he answering him that told him, said: Who is my mother, and who are my brethren? 49 And stretching forth his hand towards his disciples, he said: Behold my mother and my brethren. 50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father, that is in heaven, he is my brother, and sister, and mother. Matthew 12:48
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Will is an action not just words. Voting is an action. Pres. Obama doesn’t care what you think. He got exactly what he wanted from you. Your vote to allow him to continue his destructive policies.
 
NeedsMercy said:
Did the other 6,999,999,998 people answer you yet? 🙂

Ah, Cardinal Arinze! (I guess we’re putting aside the Papal Nuncio for now.) Now, let’s see The Cardinal was asked about **politicians ** who **publicly ** profess to be pro-choice. (I’m not a politician. I do not publicly profess to be pro-choice because I am not.) He answered the question, despite the questioner egging him to say how the Holy See should have the American bishops stamp the aforementioned politicians “heretics” and to then “excommunicate” them. The Cardinal was wise enough to ignore those terms. Arinze correctly said that those who “vote abortion” not only are against Catholic law, but also Divine law. When he talked about people who “vote abortion” I believe that he was speaking about voters who are indeed “pro-choice”, which I am not. The rest of the video was rather silly; the whole “shoot Congress” analogy being reductio ad absurdum. My feeling, however, is that he knew exactly what he was saying, especially in light of the “Swiss Guard” joke. But, if you know, not think, that he meant something else, please enlighten me with a cite.
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Your post here is confusing. You say that Cardinal Arinze was asked about politicians and then you think he changed his mind without saying so and decided to talk about people who vote for those politicians. Which is it?
 
NeedsMercy said:
  1. I will not argue that “abortion is not child abuse.”
  2. Since my original post was removed, you are the only one that “can’t imagine.”
  3. Cannot engage you any further on the whole child abuse angle.
God Bless!
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Sorry. I mistakenly thought my post was removed because of the topic which I didn’t mention. Still agree with point 1. I retract points 2 and 3. Please forgice me for 2. 😊
 
JMJSHJ said:
So truth is determined by majority? Jesus would disagree with you.
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It is your own statement and Jesus can only disagree with you.

I reiterate what I said: the false propaganda of Obama being pro-abortion was dumped by the wonderful, sensible American majority.
 
Pitcharan said:
There is no group called Obama-Catholics; but there are many rabid Obama-haters in the USA and some of them claim to be Catholics though the Catholic faith considers hatred to be an intrinsic evil.
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Call me an Obama hater, but I do not like the man, I do not like him, because of the impression he makes on me in his personal presentation, but more so because of his particular policies and because of his philosophy of government. He may be an enemy of the Church, or he may be just as friend of enemies of the Church. Don’t trust him.
 
JMJSHJ said:
Your post here is confusing. You say that Cardinal Arinze was asked about politicians and then you think he changed his mind without saying so and decided to talk about people who vote for those politicians. Which is it?
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OK, let me explain. The Cardinal was asked about politicians who are publicly professing to be pro-choice while saying that personally they were pro-life. He answered that exact question. Where did I say that he “changed his mind”? Let me point out that it was the good Cardinal who brought up the term to “vote abortion”. As much as you wanted to hear him say that to “vote abortion” meant to vote for politicians who are pro-choice, he did not say it. I told you what I thought to “vote abortion” meant. And I know what you thought you heard, but again, if you **know ** differently, give me a cite. Hope that helps!
 
Pitcharan said:
It is your own statement and Jesus can only disagree with you.

I reiterate what I said: the false propaganda of Obama being pro-abortion was dumped by the wonderful, sensible American majority.
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Rather by about 30 percent of adult Americans. But how can you ignore what the man has said himself? He is not only closely allied with Planned Parenthood, he accepts the extreme positions taken by other abortion groups. Try to dig up Sarah Weddington’s brief in the “Roe “ case. His poistion is identical with hers. For her and for him, the right to an abortion is a natural right. much as “laissez faire,” was for the Justices who ruled in Lochner, which sought to prevent the states form intervening to protect the health of industrial works. Pro-choicers have the same mindset as many libertarians, which is why Libertarians are often pro-choice.
 
RobbyS said:
Call me an Obama hater,
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I don’t know you and I’ve never named any individual an Obama-hater.
RobbyS said:
but I do not like the man, I do not like him, because of the impression he makes on me in his personal presentation, but more so because of his particular policies and because of his philosophy of government. He may be an enemy of the Church, or he may be just as friend of enemies of the Church. Don’t trust him.
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Despite the likes and dislikes and impressions of the likes of you, America will progress and move forward under Obama’s Presidency.
 
RobbyS said:
Rather by about 30 percent of adult Americans. But how can you ignore what the man has said himself? He is not only closely allied with Planned Parenthood, he accepts the extreme positions taken by other abortion groups. Try to dig up Sarah Weddington’s brief in the “Roe “ case. His poistion is identical with hers. For her and for him, the right to an abortion is a natural right. much as “laissez faire,” was for the Justices who ruled in Lochner, which sought to prevent the states form intervening to protect the health of industrial works. Pro-choicers have the same mindset as many libertarians, which is why Libertarians are often pro-choice.
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To believe that ‘right to abortion’ is a ‘natural right’ is in NO way pro-abortion, just as giving humans free-will to choose between good and evil, is in NO way pro-evil.
 
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