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Mickey
Guest
Is your capital letter button jammed? It makes your posts more difficult to read.
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M
Mickey
Guest
Now you have resorted to being uncharitable. That is a shame.
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JJR1453
Guest
Not all defined truths of the church come from Scripture. Although Peter’s designation as “Rock” and the pastoral care that was entrusted to him is.(set apart from other Apostles) John 21:15-17A defined truth and an outright innovation are two opposing concepts. The clarity of the evident Scriptural teaching on the Trinity is one thing—the invention of a supreme infallible pontiff is another.
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wisdomseeker
Guest
now, why is it uncharitable? is it such a bad thing to speak another language?Now you have resorted to being uncharitable. That is a shame.
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Mickey
Guest
Tradition and Scripture are complimentary. We cannot invent new dogmas.
St Peter needed this triple affirmation. He was the only Apostle to deny Jesus Christ three times.
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wisdomseeker
Guest
It seems like you trying to point out that because Peter has sinned he could not have been a leader. that does not make any sense to me.Tradition and Scripture are complimentary. We cannot invent new dogmas.
St Peter needed this triple affirmation. He was the only Apostle to deny Jesus Christ three times.
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JJR1453
Guest
This hits at the heart of the papacy. More on this in a bit, Ive gotta run but promise to drop by later. Great contributions from all:thumbsup:Tradition and Scripture are complimentary. We cannot invent new dogmas.
This is what I was trying to explain. And youre correct, the church cannot invent new dogmas. For if it did, then it would cease to be the one true church.
St Peter needed this triple affirmation. He was the only Apostle to deny Jesus Christ three times.
God bless,
JJR
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Mickey
Guest
I am saying that St Peter needed to be healed by Jesus Christ. Hence the triple affirmation for the triple denial.
All mankind sins.
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Mickey
Guest
And that is the point indeed! The post-schism Latin Church, led by the Ultramontanists, invented papal infallibility/supremacy which was pushed through a council in 1870 by Pius IX.
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wisdomseeker
Guest
ok. why? for what purpose was this done? i ask for quotes from our Fathers that afirms any other than Peter as having the chair. and no one has responded. that only convinces me even more about Peter’s supremacy and infallibility that is established by Our Lord alone. it is no ennovation of any kind and certainly not invented by the catholic church. it only became more clear now because the heretics denial of a leadership within christiansty. before there wasnt a problem now it is, because everyone wants to be the leader and claims that the Scriptures alone is their authority.
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planter654
Guest
Papal Problems
Jesus used symbols when he taught, keys is spoken in the Old testament also and in the Bible it is written which says "they have taken away the “keys of Knowledge” ST. Peter was given the “keys of knowledge”, thereforth what Peter was given, was given and choosen by God was the “keys of Knowledge”!
And Jesus knew by Peter’s answer giving to Jesus, who Jesus was! Jesus said to Peter, “I know that you did not learn that from me Peter, but you, Peter learnt that from my Father”!
Keys is a symbol used, used for all knowledge “KEYS” opened more then one key! Opens many gates ( are in the temple of God) or opens the doors of knowledge! I know now for I ask Jesus to teach me to know the truth of his word, so I would not be deceived!
Many gates people shall enter by, not one soul Church but many who preach and serve the Lord! For there were 12 apostles sent out and choosen by Jesus, they were commanded to go out to preach the gospels to “ALL THE NATIONS” go forth! But enter by the narrow gate for few shall enter! Read about the 12 gates of God’s temple! 12 tribes, 12 gates 12 apostles. One temple! ONe church ( us) an God will be present among us!
The 12 tribes of Israel, Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, Zebulun,Benjamin, Dan, Naphtali, Gad and Asher, Joseph. I am from the tribe of Benjamin.
/this I do know keys represent the “Keys of Knowledge” But we need the Keys of “knowledge” to enter.
God Bless
Jesus “does hear” what we ask him, if we truly believe we will receive what we have asked for, seek, knock! But you do not ask me?
Jesus used symbols when he taught, keys is spoken in the Old testament also and in the Bible it is written which says "they have taken away the “keys of Knowledge” ST. Peter was given the “keys of knowledge”, thereforth what Peter was given, was given and choosen by God was the “keys of Knowledge”!
And Jesus knew by Peter’s answer giving to Jesus, who Jesus was! Jesus said to Peter, “I know that you did not learn that from me Peter, but you, Peter learnt that from my Father”!
Keys is a symbol used, used for all knowledge “KEYS” opened more then one key! Opens many gates ( are in the temple of God) or opens the doors of knowledge! I know now for I ask Jesus to teach me to know the truth of his word, so I would not be deceived!
Many gates people shall enter by, not one soul Church but many who preach and serve the Lord! For there were 12 apostles sent out and choosen by Jesus, they were commanded to go out to preach the gospels to “ALL THE NATIONS” go forth! But enter by the narrow gate for few shall enter! Read about the 12 gates of God’s temple! 12 tribes, 12 gates 12 apostles. One temple! ONe church ( us) an God will be present among us!
The 12 tribes of Israel, Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, Zebulun,Benjamin, Dan, Naphtali, Gad and Asher, Joseph. I am from the tribe of Benjamin.
/this I do know keys represent the “Keys of Knowledge” But we need the Keys of “knowledge” to enter.
God Bless
Jesus “does hear” what we ask him, if we truly believe we will receive what we have asked for, seek, knock! But you do not ask me?
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wisdomseeker
Guest
Correction: there were Jesus and 12 apostles, then there were Peter and 12 apostles. why dont we start from here?
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Mickey
Guest
For the Son of thunder (the Apostle John), the beloved of Christ, the pillar of the Churches throughout the world, who holds the keys of heaven, who drank the cup of Christ, and was baptized with His baptism, who lay upon his Master’s bosom, with much confidence, this man now comes forward to us now
St John Chrysostom
The merciful God is wont to give this honor to his servants, that by their grace others may acquire salvation; as was agreed by the blessed Paul, that teacher of the world who emitted the rays of his teaching everywhere
St John Chrysostom
This (James) was bishop, as they say, and therefore he speaks last…There was no arrogance in the Church. After Peter, Paul speaks, and none silences him: James waits patiently; not starts up (for the next word). No word speaks John here, no word the other Apostles, but held their peace, for James was invested with the chief rule, and think it no hardship. So clean was their soul from love of glory. Peter indeed spoke more strongly, but James here more mildly: for thus it behooves one in high authority, to leave what is unpleasant for others to say, while he himself appears in the milder part
St John Chrysostom
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planter654
Guest
Because creation did not start from there in the Bible. The Bible is “one book” it has a beginning and a end the book of revelations end it! Worship God. If we started from there we would have to remove Gods plan for salvation! You would remove Abraham and God’s covenate to Abraham! Without Abraham no Jesus no salvation! God gave this promise to Abraham because of his faithfulness to God, he was going to do what God commanded him in scarificing his son. Because of Abrahams faith, his righteousness and justice in serving God first, Abraham’s love, faithfulness to God when Abraham was tested, God rewarded him. Moses was giver of the law, Abraham was giver of the promise through Issac! And God fufilled his promise made to Abraham through Jesus Christ, his son! Jesus said: Abraham was happy and saw my time come!
God Bless
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Mickey
Guest
EUSEBIUS (bishop)
(the father of ecclesiastical history)
‘And he sent out arrows, and scattered them; he flashed forth lightnings, and routed them. Then the channels of the sea were seen, and the foundations of the world were laid bear, at thy rebuke, O Lord, at the blast of thy nostrils’ (Ps. 18.14)…By ‘the foundations of the world,’ we shall understand the strength of God’s wisdom, by which, first, the order of the universe was established, and then, the world itself was founded—a world which will not be shaken. Yet you will not in any way err from the scope of the truth if you suppose that ‘the world’ is actually the Church of God, and that its ‘foundation’ is in the first place, that unspeakably solid rock on which it is founded, as Scripture says: ‘Upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it’; and elsewhere: ‘The rock, moreover, was Christ.’ For, as the Apostle indicates with these words: ‘No other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Christ Jesus.’ Then, too, after the Savior himself, you may rightly judge the foundations of the Church to be the words of the prophets and apostles, in accordance with the statement of the Apostle: ‘Built upon the foundation of the apostles and the prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone.’ These foundations of the world have been laid bare because the enemies of God, who once darkened the eyes of our mind, lest we gaze upon divine things, have been routed and put to flight—scattered by the arrows sent from God and put to flight by the rebuke of the Lord and by the blast from his nostrils. As a result, having been saved from these enemies and having received the use of our eyes, we have seen the channels of the sea and have looked upon the foundations of the world. This has happened in our lifetime in many parts of the world (Commentary on the Psalms, M.P.G., Vol. 23, Col. 173, 176).
(the father of ecclesiastical history)
‘And he sent out arrows, and scattered them; he flashed forth lightnings, and routed them. Then the channels of the sea were seen, and the foundations of the world were laid bear, at thy rebuke, O Lord, at the blast of thy nostrils’ (Ps. 18.14)…By ‘the foundations of the world,’ we shall understand the strength of God’s wisdom, by which, first, the order of the universe was established, and then, the world itself was founded—a world which will not be shaken. Yet you will not in any way err from the scope of the truth if you suppose that ‘the world’ is actually the Church of God, and that its ‘foundation’ is in the first place, that unspeakably solid rock on which it is founded, as Scripture says: ‘Upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it’; and elsewhere: ‘The rock, moreover, was Christ.’ For, as the Apostle indicates with these words: ‘No other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Christ Jesus.’ Then, too, after the Savior himself, you may rightly judge the foundations of the Church to be the words of the prophets and apostles, in accordance with the statement of the Apostle: ‘Built upon the foundation of the apostles and the prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone.’ These foundations of the world have been laid bare because the enemies of God, who once darkened the eyes of our mind, lest we gaze upon divine things, have been routed and put to flight—scattered by the arrows sent from God and put to flight by the rebuke of the Lord and by the blast from his nostrils. As a result, having been saved from these enemies and having received the use of our eyes, we have seen the channels of the sea and have looked upon the foundations of the world. This has happened in our lifetime in many parts of the world (Commentary on the Psalms, M.P.G., Vol. 23, Col. 173, 176).
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wisdomseeker
Guest
do you believe this answer my question? no, it does not. read my post on the quotations of our Fathers.
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wisdomseeker
Guest
nobody here is disputing this. but this is not what our conversation is about. try again.
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Mickey
Guest
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Mickey
Guest
Yes.
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wisdomseeker
Guest
nice try mickey! it did not work. i am still waiting on my answer. just admit you cannot answer it because you donot know the answer or you cannot prove against papal supremacy and infallibility.
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