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Mickey
Guest
I’ll rephrase it since you insist on playing your little games.
If you have never experienced the Liturgy of the Ruthenian Catholic Church, then please refrain from publically stating what they recite. Thank you.
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If you have never experienced the Liturgy of the Ruthenian Catholic Church, then please refrain from publically stating what they recite. Thank you.
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steve_b
Guest
It amazes me how you manage to twist something so clear.Yeah Steve I know. And it is amazing to me that the RC apologists continue to twist it. It is very simple. St James was the head of the Church of Jesusalem. He made the decision. St Peter had no jurisdiction nor supremacy here.
Is really is quite evident.
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Mickey
Guest
Oh brother. You have simply repeated what I said in the inverse.
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bobzills
Guest
The Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church says the creed in the liturgy without the filioque. This can be easily checked. Now if steve b is wrong on this, how do we know that he is not wrong on everything else that he has posted?
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wisdomseeker
Guest
yes, St James could have been the head of the church in jerusalem, but peter was over all the churches. if James was not obedient to peter then he would ve been disobedient to Our Lord which it could not have happened.Yeah Steve I know. And it is amazing to me that the RC apologists continue to twist it. It is very simple. St James was the head of the Church of Jesusalem. He made the decision. St Peter had no jurisdiction nor supremacy here.
Is really is quite evident.
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Mickey
Guest
I know. I was Ruthenian Catholic for many years.
Maybe not everything. But it could be many things.
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Mickey
Guest
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Alexius
Guest
Perhaps we can hold back on the personal attacks and stick to the topic…
James seems to have the final say, yet Peter speaks first. According to Catholic theology, does Peter (or his successors) have to announce the final decision? I was under the impression that they just need to approve it…
Prayers and petitions,
Alexius
James seems to have the final say, yet Peter speaks first. According to Catholic theology, does Peter (or his successors) have to announce the final decision? I was under the impression that they just need to approve it…
Prayers and petitions,
Alexius
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Mickey
Guest
This (James) was bishop, as they say, and therefore he speaks last. There was no arrogance in the Church. After Peter, Paul speaks, and none silences him: James waits patiently; not starts up (for the next word). No word speaks John here, no word the other Apostles, but held their peace, for James was invested with the chief rule, and think it no hardship. So clean was their soul from love of glory. Peter indeed spoke more strongly, but James here more mildly: for thus it behooves one in high authority, to leave what is unpleasant for others to say, while he himself appears in the milder part.
St John Chysostom
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ForeverAdam
Guest
Good quote.
I wonder how our Roman Catholic brethren will explain this. One might argue that St. James only held chief rule of the Council as he was St. Peter’s legate, but this is unlikely since Peter was present at the Council in person. Without being polemical at all, this quote seems to confirm that James, not Peter, presided with authority over the Council of Jerusalem. While St. Peter had an important influence on the outcome of the Council through his discourse on God opening the doors to the Gentiles, he doesn’t appear to have been the leader of the Council, as St. John Chrysostom states that James held the high authority in the Council.God bless,
Adam
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Allyson
Guest
The filioque has been removed completely - see the new RDL.
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Allyson
Guest
Had Peter gone to Rome yet???
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steve_b
Guest
I gave what OTHERS said. Are these sources wrong?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3514680&postcount=869
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Allyson
Guest
SteveB,
The RDL of the Ruthenian Church which went into effect Last Sumer, does not contain the filioque. Before that, it was to be removed, but this had not become universal yet.
God Bless,
Rosemary
The RDL of the Ruthenian Church which went into effect Last Sumer, does not contain the filioque. Before that, it was to be removed, but this had not become universal yet.
God Bless,
Rosemary
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Allyson
Guest
The Catholic Encyclopedia is way way way out of date.
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steve_b
Guest
As he also said
“And if anyone would say 'How did James receive the chair of Jerusalem?”, I would reply that he appointed Peter a teacher not of the chair, but of the world…" (Chrysostom, on John, Homily 88, Migne PG 59:478,
“God allowed him to fall, because He meant to make him ruler of the whole world [Greek], that, remembering his own fall, he might forgive those who should slip in the future. And what I have said is no guess, listen to Christ Himself saying, ‘Simon, Simon, how often hath Satan desired to sift thee as wheat, but I have prayed for thee that thy strength fail not, and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren’.” (Hom quod frequenter conveniendum sit, 5, vol XII, 466[329])
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steve_b
Guest
What specific points are are out of date?
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bobzills
Guest
If it is absolutely true, why then do the Eastern Catholics not say it in their creed?
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steve_b
Guest
If this is correct Rosemary, Thank you for the update.
So that I’m clear on this, as of last summer
- the filioque was recited in the liturgy?
- And still has not been universally removed yet from the liturgy?
I guess those sources I posted were correct afterall.
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Allyson
Guest
The topic of the exchange in which you linked there - the use of the Filioque in the creed.
The part about the alteration of the liturgy involving the addition of the filioque is out of date, because it reflects the usage of the early 20th century. This has been reversed. The Catholic Encyclopedia is ~90-100 years old. As for the rest of the article, I haven’t read it. I skimmed for the salient reference about the use of the filioque.
As a member of the Ruthenian Catholic Church, I regularly attend divine liturgy, so I know that it has been removed.
On a side note, it should have never been added in the liturgy of the Eastern Rites, which had signed the Union of Brest, according to that treaty of union.
God Bless,
Rosemary
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