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myfavoritmartin
Guest
Apologies…
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
So to properly define this…
He acts as God on earth?
He acts as God on earth?
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LilyM
Guest
"Meaning of VICEGERENT
Pronunciation: vIs’jeerunt
WordNet Dictionary
Definition: [n] someone appointed by a ruler as an administrative deputy"
Nope, pretty much the same word, definitely has the same meaning.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
No. The Pope is the Servant of Servants. He is not God or act as God. He is much like a Duty and Prime Minister. Besides, the Catechism of the Catholic Church does even say that he acts as God. He is merely an Chief ambassador of Christ
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LilyM
Guest
He acts, as the definition indicates, as one who governs with some (not necessariy all) of the authority of the sovereign (God). Doesn’t put him on nearly the same level.
We in Australia now all about viceregents/vicegerents. Our ruler is the Queen of England. We also have a viceregent, called the Governor-General, who performs most (not all) of the administrative tasks that the Queen would personally perform if she resided here - opening Parliament, appointing Prime Ministers, signing legislation into effect and so on. Does this make him anywhere near a King in his own right? Absolutely not.
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VociMike
Guest
Well yeah, Christ is very God. And?..
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johnnycatholic
Guest
As a former English major, I can assure you that he means he is God’s vicegerent. Take out the part in the commas: . . . the vicegerent upon earth but of very God.
What exactly is your problem? And don’t act like you’re not trying to make it say the Pope thinks he’s God. You obviously have an axe to grind. You have had your question answered, so eat some humble pie and come back when you can parse a sentence.
What exactly is your problem? And don’t act like you’re not trying to make it say the Pope thinks he’s God. You obviously have an axe to grind. You have had your question answered, so eat some humble pie and come back when you can parse a sentence.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
Imagine. The pope is the viceregent, not of a mere man, but of God. The pope has historically speaking been the successor of Peter, who was appointed as the ‘first’ viceregent by. . .Christ (who was not a ‘mere man’).
Seems fine to me. Of course, you could show us the Latin and there are several scholars who could verify the correct translation, I’m sure. Amazing that this ‘claim’ was made in the early 13th century (Innocent being Pope if I recall during the time of King John of England, during the time of the Albigenian heresy in France, and the rise of those great saints Francis and Dominick), and yet only recently has there been this great misunderstanding from those who appear to be inclined, even if they don’t recognize it, to what we would consider anticlericalism?
Seems fine to me. Of course, you could show us the Latin and there are several scholars who could verify the correct translation, I’m sure. Amazing that this ‘claim’ was made in the early 13th century (Innocent being Pope if I recall during the time of King John of England, during the time of the Albigenian heresy in France, and the rise of those great saints Francis and Dominick), and yet only recently has there been this great misunderstanding from those who appear to be inclined, even if they don’t recognize it, to what we would consider anticlericalism?
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francesco920
Guest
No. He acts like God’s official administrative deputy, or vicegerent, on Earth because that’s what he is.
I mean no offense, but it seems to me like you are trying very hard to put words in Innocent’s mouth and make it seem like he was saying that he was God, even though he clearly stated that he was VICEGERENT of God. You can’t be a vicegerent of God and God at the same time, by definition.
This is the definition from Encarta:
, present participle of* gerere* “carry on”]
I hope that helps.
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Randy_Carson
Guest
Does anyone here honestly believe that after more than 1,000 posts like this in this forum, MFM is really here to ask questions in an earnest attempt to learn the truth?
From Wikipedia:
In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who enters an established community such as an online discussion forum and intentionally tries to cause disruption, often in the form of posting messages that are inflammatory, insulting, or off-topic, with the intent of provoking a reaction from others.
Do Not Feed the Troll!
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Nicene
Guest
No problem with it whatsoever. The Pope is appointed by God the Holy Spirit who leads the College of Cardinals in the choice. So he isn’t appointed by mere man but by God.
Hence he is the Viceregent of God.
You will see the same process take place with Matthias in Acts.
Acts 1:20: For it is written in the book of Psalms,
Let his habitation become desolate, and let there be no one to live in it'; and His office let another take.’21: So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
22: beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us – one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection."
23: And they put forward two, Joseph called Barsab’bas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthi’as.
24: And they prayed and said, “Lord, who knowest the hearts of all men, show which one of these two thou hast chosen
25: to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside, to go to his own place.”
26: And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthi’as; and he was enrolled with the eleven apostles.
Nothing has changed.
Peace and God Bless
Nicene
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Veritas41
Guest
“the vicegerent upon earth, not of a mere man, but of very God;”
just reading the statement above, as you wrote it, it seems clear to me he’s not claiming divinity. It says,not of a mere man*,* and of very God*.* That seems like very awkward grammatical construction to claim deity – wouldn’t he just say, “vicegerent upon earth, not a mere man, but very God”?
just reading the statement above, as you wrote it, it seems clear to me he’s not claiming divinity. It says,not of a mere man*,* and of very God*.* That seems like very awkward grammatical construction to claim deity – wouldn’t he just say, “vicegerent upon earth, not a mere man, but very God”?
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
Not at all. That sort of language was not limited to the Pope - Dante, in one of his letters, refers to the Emperor Henry VII (1308-13) as “the Lamb of God”. As for “God-language”, there are many examples of that from the eighth to the 16th century, as applied to Popes; & James VI & I was doing nothing unusual in saying that “kings are little gods” - he had good Biblical warrant for thinking that; and he’s the man behind the “King James” Version.
In the OT, elohim is used to refer to God, angels, & human judges, to name a few. And have a look at Pss. 82 & 89 sometimeThis language is startling out of its context, but it is not something to worry about.
Besides, the Pope is in some sense the vicar of Christ [though Mrs. White cannot be expected to have agreed with that
]; & Christ is “…very God of Very God, begotten not made…”, as well as being true man This is basic Catholic doctrine. Or isn’t Jesus truly God & truly man ? Hope that helps.
Tantum Ergo:
It’s perfectly correct, as is the bibliographical information. And there is nothing necessarily wrong with being anticlerical
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
Not at all. That sort of language was not limited to the Pope - Dante, in one of his letters, refers to the Emperor Henry VII (1308-13) as “the Lamb of God”. As for “God-language”, there are many examples of that from the eighth to the 16th century, as applied to Popes; & James VI & I was doing nothing unusual in saying that “kings are little gods” - he had good Biblical warrant for thinking that; and he’s the man behind the “King James” Version.
In the OT, elohim is used to refer to God, angels, & human judges, to name a few. And have a look at Pss. 82 & 89 sometimeThis language is startling out of its context, but it is not something to worry about.
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Mintaka
Guest
The Pope is the Vicar of Christ. Not news.
vicarius – deputy, vicar, slave to do one’s work.
vicarius – deputy, vicar, slave to do one’s work.
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havemercy
Guest
Uh oh! Then I suppose Jesus’ giving Peter the keys was a gesture implying that Simon was now head-chef of the nearest Inn. Mmm…I wonder what that food tasted like. Rocks perhaps?
Peter is the Rock on whom the Church was built, and to whom the Keys of the Kingdom were given by Christ the King as the Prime Minister/Vicar of the Kingdom on earth (the Church).
Give thanks and praise!
Peter is the Rock on whom the Church was built, and to whom the Keys of the Kingdom were given by Christ the King as the Prime Minister/Vicar of the Kingdom on earth (the Church).
Give thanks and praise!
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twf
Guest
myfavoritmartin:
- he is the vicegerent of Christ, who is “very God and very man.”*
I believe you misread it. Look careful. It says he [the pope] is the vicegerent of Christ, who [Christ] is “very God”…
Christ is very God! That’s clearly who it says.
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