Papal visit fuels calls to end ban on Catholic succession

[1holycatholic]

Papal visit fuels calls to end ban on Catholic succession
The public is being urged to back a campaign to scrap a 300-year-old law which prohibits Catholics ascending the throne, ahead of Pope Benedict XVI’s visit to Britain next month.

The Coalition Government is currently asking voters to nominate laws which they think restrict civil liberties and should be abolished or amended.

The suggestions will form the basis of the so-called Freedom Bill, announced with much fanfare by Nick Clegg, the Deputy Prime Minister, earlier this year.
…

 

[lizaanne]

I have no idea how in the world this could ever work. The Queen (or King) is the head of the CofE. How could she/he be both this and Catholic?

~Liza

 

[1holycatholic]

I have no idea how in the world this could ever work. The Queen (or King) is the head of the CofE. How could she/he be both this and Catholic?

~Liza

Dissolve the CoE.

 

[curlycool89]

Dissolve the CoE.

I…er…um…I mean…

I can’t say how that would work. When it comes to the Crown, Britain has even less guidance than we do in Canada. Pretty much the whole thing is unwritten conventions (besides the Act of Succession). There are lots of limits on what the Crown cannot do, but a lot of power that i invested in the crown in unwritten.

What would probably effectively happen would be that the Crown would separate from the CoE, making the CoE autonomous. This isn’t the mid-2nd millennia anymore, you can’t just say “the CoE is gone, we’re folding it back into the Catholic Church”. It’s no longer just a political difference, there’s a large theological gorge between Catholicism and mainstream Anglicanism.

 

[1holycatholic]

I…er…um…I mean…

I can’t say how that would work. When it comes to the Crown, Britain has even less guidance than we do in Canada. Pretty much the whole thing is unwritten conventions (besides the Act of Succession). There are lots of limits on what the Crown cannot do, but a lot of power that i invested in the crown in unwritten.

What would probably effectively happen would be that the Crown would separate from the CoE, making the CoE autonomous. This isn’t the mid-2nd millennia anymore, you can’t just say “the CoE is gone, we’re folding it back into the Catholic Church”. It’s no longer just a political difference, there’s a large theological gorge between Catholicism and mainstream Anglicanism.

Don’t forget they have to return assets seized from the Church. They can be autonomous elsewhere. :hey_bud:

 

[revert_jen]

What would probably effectively happen would be that the Crown would separate from the CoE, making the CoE autonomous.

Would that necessarily be a bad thing? It seems like monarchs should be able to choose the religion to which they wish to belong, without losing their job, just like anyone else.

This isn’t the mid-2nd millennia anymore, you can’t just say “the CoE is gone, we’re folding it back into the Catholic Church”. It’s no longer just a political difference, there’s a large theological gorge between Catholicism and mainstream Anglicanism.

There’s a large theological gorge between mainstream Anglicanism and mainstream Anglicanism. However, I agree it would not be possible (or even desirable) to just try to move the whole C of E into the Catholic Church.

–Jen

 

[Javl]

I have no idea how in the world this could ever work. The Queen (or King) is the head of the CofE. How could she/he be both this and Catholic?

~Liza

Simple…cede the title and authority and appoint the Archbishop of Canterbury as the Authoritive head of the CoE. At present he is only Titular head.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Pregustator]

I have no idea how in the world this could ever work. The Queen (or King) is the head of the CofE. How could she/he be both this and Catholic?

It’s actually a fascinating question insofar as the Church of England has already had at least three Roman Catholic supreme heads: Henry VIII, Charles II and James II. I’m not sure if Mary I ever held the title, even if briefly.

At any rate, Charles II, while Supreme Governor of the Church of England, converted to Catholicism on his death bed, so from that moment until his death he was a Roman Catholic and the head of the Church of England at the same time. Same goes for his brother and successor, James II, until he was deposed (or until his death, depending upon one’s point of view).

 

[curlycool89]

Would that necessarily be a bad thing? It seems like monarchs should be able to choose the religion to which they wish to belong, without losing their job, just like anyone else.

I never said it was bad, I was merely reflecting on the logistics of such a decision.

There’s a large theological gorge between mainstream Anglicanism and mainstream Anglicanism.

LOL!

Simple…cede the title and authority and appoint the Archbishop of Canterbury as the Authoritive head of the CoE. At present he is only Titular head.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

That is the mostly likely case. I’m not sure how much of this would have to be legislated and how much is reserve power of the Crown, so I don’t know what the process would look like.

 

[kaid100]

I have no idea how in the world this could ever work. The Queen (or King) is the head of the CofE. How could she/he be both this and Catholic?

~Liza

Interestingly, while the British Monarch cannot ascend to the throne as a Catholic, there is nothing to say that they couldn’t become Monarch as an Orthodox, Hindu, Muslim, atheist or follower of Judaism. Even if they were any of these, they would still be head of the Church of England. At the time the law was passed, none of these faiths (or lack of) were really found openly in England, except for Judaism which was limited to those of Jewish race.

 

[Qwikness]

Interestingly, while the British Monarch cannot ascend to the throne as a Catholic, there is nothing to say that they couldn’t become Monarch as an Orthodox, .

Really? I thought Prince Philip converted from Greek Orthodox because of this.
FWIW I saw some rumor on the internet that Prince Charles is interested in Orthodoxy.

 

[Javl]

Really? I thought Prince Philip converted from Greek Orthodox because of this.
FWIW I saw some rumor on the internet that Prince Charles is interested in Orthodoxy.

Yep, P.P. did. And as far as Charlie and Orthodoxy, that’s all it is, a rumor. Remember Princess Diane? Rumor said she became a Catholic after her audience with the Pope. So, you know what happened. Just a rumor.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[LilyM]

Really? I thought Prince Philip converted from Greek Orthodox because of this.
FWIW I saw some rumor on the internet that Prince Charles is interested in Orthodoxy.

I don’t think it would have had any effect in law if Philip had remained Orthodox, as it wouldn’t have had he retained his family’s German name of Battenberg, instead of adopting the Anglicised version of Mountbatten which he did. Certainly his mother remained Orthodox all her life - even took to wearing a religious habit.

Like the change of name, the change of religion has nothing to do with legal requirement and everything to do with British prejudice against foreigners. It was essentially a PR exercise, along with a lot of other things. Do you know, for instance, that he actually gave up his status as a Prince of Greece during WWII, and didn’t become a Prince again until some time after his marriage when Liz kindly gave him the title of Prince?

Remember Phil and Liz married just after World War II, when prejudice against foreigners of all kinds, but particularly Germans was, strong - and Phil’s family, in spite of the Orthodoxy, were essentially German. Had he remained Orthodox to boot he wouldn’t have been accepted by the Brits even as much as he has been.

Mind you for decades after there was still a lot of tittering about ‘Phil the Greek’ - it would’ve been infinitely worse had he remained Orthodox.

 

[Digitonomy]

"lizanne:

The Queen (or King) is the head of the CofE. How could she/he be both this and Catholic?~Liza

In practice, the queen doesn’t exercise much authority over the CoE at all. Instead, Parliament and the PM do this. Which brings us to:

Simple…cede the title and authority and appoint the Archbishop of Canterbury as the Authoritive head of the CoE. At present he is only Titular head.

A new process would have to be established to select the Archbishop of Canterbury. Currently this is done by the PM (possibly for other bishops as well) - so the current Archbishop, Rowan Williams, was selected in 2002 by a PM married to a Catholic, raising his children in the Catholic Church, and already himself toying with the idea of conversion to Catholicism.

 

[curlycool89]

A new process would have to be established to select the Archbishop of Canterbury. Currently this is done by the PM (possibly for other bishops as well) - so the current Archbishop, Rowan Williams, was selected in 2002 by a PM married to a Catholic, raising his children in the Catholic Church, and already himself toying with the idea of conversion to Catholicism.

So they would have to have some sort of election then? Maybe one involving the highest leaders of the CoE (or the Anglican Community). That doesn’t sound familiar at all

Seriously though, they’d finally have to admit that they’re basically Conclavists.