Parallelism In Religions

[Sahara457]

I have a question. Is it not true that most religions all parallel one another in some form or another. The Catholic/Christian religion seems very similar to that of ancient Egyptian mythology. The representation of Mary the Mother of Jesus appears to be just like that of the goddess Isis. Am I the only one who thinks there is a similarity?

 

[FCEGM]

I have a question. Is it not true that most religions all parallel one another in some form or another. The Catholic/Christian religion seems very similar to that of ancient Egyptian mythology. The representation of Mary the Mother of Jesus appears to be just like that of the goddess Isis. Am I the only one who thinks there is a similarity?

Welcome to the Forum, Sahara.

No, you are not the only one who has made that claim here, but here are some articles addressing the supposed similarity:

catholic.com/thisrock/2006/0605fea2.asp

catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9911chap.asp

catholic.com/thisrock/2006/0605fea2sb.asp

bringyou.to/apologetics/JesusEvidenceCrucifiedSaviors.htm

 

[Kaninchen]

The echoes/similarities with Sumerian/Babylonian stories in the Genesis ‘era’ are particularly striking.

Not that surprising really.

 

[Hastrman]

The echoes/similarities with Sumerian/Babylonian stories in the Genesis ‘era’ are particularly striking.

Not that surprising really.

Um…not any Sumerian stories I’ve ever read…

Certainly the basic cosmology is essentially the same, but that’d be because the Sumerians were the big thinkers of the time. The Navajo copied large portions of Hopi cosmology for the same reason. But the idea of Creation being ex nihilo, that you find in Genesis, is certainly not found in any Sumerian or Semitic cosmogony of which I am aware.

As to Isis and Our Lady…um, no, not really, not at all. Isis’ husband dies, first off, not her son; she’s not a virgin; and she was never a human being–she’s a god, in Ancient Egyptian nčrt. Also she’s married to her brother, Osiris never really comes back to life; he’s reborn as Lord of the Dead. And Set isn’t even close to a Satanic figure–that’d be Apophis. In the Middle Kingdom Set was actually one of the more popular gods, worshipped by most of the army.

Mary could be argued to have more in common with, say, Diana/Artemis/the Indian moon goddess whose name I forget, since they at least are virginal–and in fact the Virgin of Guadalupe stands on the moon as a sign of her having conquered Diana’s power–but again: not that great a fit.

Some also compare her to Guan Yin/Avalokitesvara, the Bodhisattva of Mercy, but she (he in India) isn’t anything like Mary, other than being a female being with a lot of popular devotion. Once we start down that road, let’s compare her to Kali and Changing Woman, too!

She’s the one and only Ciuapiltzin Coatlaxopeuh, and there’s really not that much parallelism to it.

 

[Kaninchen]

Um…not any Sumerian stories I’ve ever read…

Perhaps you should read some more then.

 

[strngrnrth]

There’s a whole game I like to play of finding parallelism between anything and anything. I can find more parallels between any two historic figures than between Christianity and any polytheistic mythology. so can lots of people. Maybe this would maka a good game thread sometime.

 

[Hastrman]

Perhaps you should read some more then.

What other than Utnapishtim in the Gilgamesh epic/Noah in Genesis, and the cosmological similarity I mentioned, do the two have in common?

Certainly nothing but window dressing comes to mind.

 

[Kaninchen]

What other than Utnapishtim in the Gilgamesh epic/Noah in Genesis, and the cosmological similarity I mentioned, do the two have in common?

Certainly nothing but window dressing comes to mind.

Well, there you go . . .

Personally, I can see echoes of Genesis in stories like the Goddess Inanna and the Huluppu tree - with the screech owl Lilith for good measure (an interesting side-view of a Jewish legend).

I really can’t see what your problem is with this but I’m (obviously) not interested in suggested similarities between pagan gods and Jesus. The exodus from Sumer (Abraham) and Egypt were sure to leave their mark - whether it’s in legend or ways of doing things - a whole tribe of priests after leaving Egypt does rather suggest some Egyptian ‘management theory’, for example!

 

[Hastrman]

Well, there you go . . .

Personally, I can see echoes of Genesis in stories like the Goddess Inanna and the Huluppu tree - with the screech owl Lilith for good measure (an interesting side-view of a Jewish legend).

I really can’t see what your problem is with this but I’m (obviously) not interested in suggested similarities between pagan gods and Jesus. The exodus from Sumer (Abraham) and Egypt were sure to leave their mark - whether it’s in legend or ways of doing things - a whole tribe of priests after leaving Egypt does rather suggest some Egyptian ‘management theory’, for example!

Well, Lilith is something the whole Semitic family borrowed from the Sumerians, because she was a part of their ideas about medicine (ie magic). As for Inanna being like Eve…there are things you just don’t say, and one is comparing anybody’s ancestors, even their semi-mythical ones, to the sluttiest, most conniving, most heartless deity in all of human history. Mickey Spillane has a higher view of women than whoever came up with Inanna.

Come to think of it is possible there’s some literary influence there, but I have a feeling it’s just the motif of the tree of life with a tempter/danger in it–which all cultures have. It’s all over the place in Indo-European mythology, and it shows up at least twice just that I can think of in the Chinese Journey to the West.

But the tribe of priests thing is no more of Egyptian origin than the Roman flamen are of Hindu origin (brahmin and flamen, aside from being from the same word, are just the localizations of the Indo-European priestly caste).

The real explanation is, the Egyptians and the Semites share an origin (their languages are related, among other things), and they had a special status for priests. In pre-Islamic Arab societies they were called sha’ir or “poets” (oddly parallel to Navajo hataali or “singer”), and were basically “medicine men”.

I don’t have a problem with it as such; I just question whether parallelism necessarily means derivation–and in the case of the Isis-Mary thing, I don’t think there is any parallelism. But as with the tree motif I mentioned, the same image can easily occur to ten artists who’ve never heard of each other. It’s not really possible to ascribe any of those parallels to a common origin, unless you’re a Jungian (if so, feel free).

 

[Kaninchen]

Well, Lilith is something the whole Semitic family borrowed from the Sumerians, because she was a part of their ideas about medicine (ie magic).

That’s the only Lilith theme, you reckon?

As for Inanna being like Eve…

I said absolutely nothing about Inanna being like Eve.

there are things you just don’t say, and one is comparing anybody’s ancestors, even their semi-mythical ones, to the sluttiest, most conniving, most heartless deity in all of human history. Mickey Spillane has a higher view of women than whoever came up with Inanna.

Well, speaking as a descendant (and actually quite observant member) of the people who broke completely (at an ‘official’ level in ancient times - something that was not so clear ‘on the ground’) from pagan deities and ways of thinking, I’d still take that with something of a grain of salt.

But the tribe of priests thing is no more of Egyptian origin than the Roman flamen are of Hindu origin (brahmin and flamen, aside from being from the same word, are just the localizations of the Indo-European priestly caste). . . . .

Except we’d not just spent an awful long time living in Egypt rather than India or Arizona. We’d shared space and time with them, rather like we had with the Sumerians. We arrived in Egypt as squabbling shepherds and left Egypt having acquired the idea of a priestly tribe and as military geniuses, I think we’d learned a bit about organization.

 

[c659smith]

in
Christianity there is no major Parallelism

Give me the path to heaven clear cut in any other Religion but Christianity?

Give me where a God became man?

Give me where a God sacraficed himself as man for man?

HINDU no heaven just re-do

Islam no messiah no heaven

Jews no messiah no heaven

Buddha no heaven

Sorry no Parallelism In Religion here

 

[Hastrman]

Except we’d not just spent an awful long time living in Egypt rather than India or Arizona. We’d shared space and time with them, rather like we had with the Sumerians. We arrived in Egypt as squabbling shepherds and left Egypt having acquired the idea of a priestly tribe and as military geniuses, I think we’d learned a bit about organization.

That isn’t what I said, nor could anyone who actually read what I said mistake my meaning.

I will now break it up and explain.

But the tribe of priests thing is no more of Egyptian origin than the Roman flamen are of Hindu origin (brahmin and flamen, aside from being from the same word, are just the localizations of the Indo-European priestly caste).

“A is no more B than X is Y” means that A and B have one relationship, X and Y have another, and A’s relationship to B is similar to X’s to Y. There is absolutely no implied relationship of A to X or Y, or of B to X or Y.

In this instance, I was saying:

1. The mere fact that Egyptians and Jews have a priest caste does not mean the Jews got theirs from the Egyptians.
2. For example, the Romans and Hindus both have a priest caste, with similar names.
3. One might conclude, as you did with the Egyptians and the Jews, that the one came from the other.
4. But the Roman priest caste does not come from the Indian one.
5. Rather, both share a common origin in the prehistoric Indo-European society.

The real explanation is, the Egyptians and the Semites share an origin (their languages are related, among other things), and they had a special status for priests. In pre-Islamic Arab societies they were called sha’ir or “poets” (oddly parallel to Navajo hataali or “singer”), and were basically “medicine men”.

The Egyptians and Semites share an origin (they do–Afro-Asiatic linguistics, certain physical and genetic traits).

All such tribes, wherever found, have a priest caste, and have since at least the time of King Scorpion (pre-pre-unification Egypt, long before Abraham). Berbers, Jews, Arabs, Egyptians, I believe Kushite Ethiopians (can’t recall what group they are, but I think Afro-Asiatic) all have a special status for priests–or originally shamans.

My mention of the Navajo was merely noting that the Arab name for their priests is similar to the Navajo name for theirs; it implied nothing else–certainly no relationship.

I do apologize for the misunderstanding (and for a certain sharpness of tone observable above), but I really don’t think I was unclear.

 

[Kaninchen]

I will now break it up and explain.

Ever heard of the word ‘hubris’?

 

[Kaninchen]

I will now break it up and explain.

Ever heard of the word ‘hubris’?

 

[Hastrman]

Ever heard of the word ‘hubris’?

Ever heard of the phrase “reading comprehension?”

 

[Kaninchen]

Ever heard of the phrase “reading comprehension?”

Precisely.

 

[Hastrman]

Precisely.

Um…I’m not even sure that this is a human response.

You obviously did not even bother to read the specific wording of my first post; you just jumped ahead and responded to your misunderstanding of my point; and then when I tried to explain (taking out a hell of a lot of sneering from my first draft, by the way), you accuse me of hubris?

And then I say, basically, albeit not in so many words, “You were dumb” (the only possible meaning of “Ever hear of reading comprehension?”), you say “Exactly?”

Which would seem to mean, “You’re right, I’m dumb.”

I’m guessing they don’t have an equivalent of the Verbal SAT tests in Europe.

If this problem, however, was caused by English not being your first language, then I *do *apologize, wholeheartedly and on hands and knees–that *would *make all this my fault.

 

[Valke2]

The legal code of Hammurabi is quite similar to a large portion of Leviticus; as discussed here, chunks of the Noah flood story were lifted from the Epic of Gilgamesh; prophecies of Ezekiel were inspired by Middle Eastern temples. The Ten Commandments, were apparently derived in part from ancient Hittite treaties.

 

[Kaninchen]

Um…I’m not even sure that this is a human response.

You obviously did not even bother to read the specific wording of my first post; you just jumped ahead and responded to your misunderstanding of my point; and then when I tried to explain (taking out a hell of a lot of sneering from my first draft, by the way), you accuse me of hubris?

And then I say, basically, albeit not in so many words, “You were dumb” (the only possible meaning of “Ever hear of reading comprehension?”), you say “Exactly?”

Which would seem to mean, “You’re right, I’m dumb.”

I’m guessing they don’t have an equivalent of the Verbal SAT tests in Europe.

If this problem, however, was caused by English not being your first language, then I *do *apologize, wholeheartedly and on hands and knees–that *would *make all this my fault.

Actually, the ‘precisely’ was an observation at your behavior immediately after my comment about hubris - which you’ve now taken a step further!

Excellent.