Pardon for Army Lt

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grotto said:
political rules of engagement
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Behenna acknowledged during his 2008 trial that instead of taking prisoner Ali Mansur home as he was ordered, he took the man to a railroad culvert, stripped him, and then questioned him at gunpoint about a roadside bombing that had killed two members of Behenna’s platoon.

Political rules of engagement? :roll_eyes:
 
“Sounds like” and “potentially understandable” don’t cut the mustard. His behavior was that of a combat warrior performing his duty bravely. The decision that was handed down has been overturned with a Presidential Pardon. This is a privilege of the President of the United States and naturally you would not have any reason to agree or be comfortable with as you have expressed dissatisfaction with all things USA many times. Its confusing whether you have a country’s armed forces to support.
 
He’s not being given back his rank etc. It reads more like the trial railroaded the murder conviction and failed to acknowledge the killing was in self-defense. Sounds like he still deserved court-martial for not following orders.
White House Press Secretary Edmond, Okla., “from the military, Oklahoma elected officials, and the public” – including 37 generals and admirals, along with a former Pentagon inspector general – as the reason for Trump’s clemency grant. Sanders also said Behenna had been a “model prisoner” while serving his sentence.

Behenna, who was 24 at the time, said he acted in self-defense when Mansur threw a chunk of concrete at him and reached for the lieutenant’s handgun. Army prosecutors said the argument didn’t stand up because Behenna was already pointing his weapon at the prisoner.

the prosecution failed to disclose that their own expert’s analysis supported their son’s version of events.

Oklahoma Attorney General Mike Hunter initially requested a pardon for Behenna in February 2018 and renewed his request last month. Hunter said he believed Behenna’s conviction was unjustified because of erroneous jury instructions and the failure of prosecutors to turn over evidence supporting a self-defense claim.
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So its Ireland you prefer to support; thought it was Russia. Serving your country and making the sacrifices that come with combat service is the highest level and deserving honor from a grateful nation.

What you suggest at the beginning of your post is very disrespectful and false. Enjoy your ad hominems.
 
Yes, you have posted to this affect previously. Memorial Day is coming up in a few weeks and its a great time to remember those fallen in all the wars.
 
PaulinVA said:
It. was. murder.
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Sure seems like it. He was convicted at court martial by a panel of military officers, so it seems unlikely that is was some kind of political conviction. Two important things to remember, though: First, this is merely clemency, not a pardon. He was already out on parole, so the only real effect is shortening his parole period. Second, there were some questions about the conduct of his court martial. So all in all, serving six years and spending a lifetime as a convicted murderer might not be a terrible result.

EDIT - I was wrong, he was pardoned. So while he was convicted of murder, the pardon essentially undoes the conviction - so the now italicized text is incorrect. I think the pardon is a mistake under these circumstances.
 
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grotto said:
“Sounds like” and “potentially understandable” don’t cut the mustard. His behavior was that of a combat warrior performing his duty bravely.
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I question how much bravery it takes to take an unarmed, naked man out into the desert and shoot him. I understand that there were some issues with his trial, but this man is in no way a hero. The available choices appear to be either 1) a dangerously reckless and disobedient soldier whose irresponsible disregard for orders put him in a very bad spot, or 2) straight up murderer. Given there is some (maybe small) chance that this is #1, I don’t have a big problem with shortening his sentence - but he is not a brave soldier doing his duty, at least not on that day.
 
Nope - my bad. The article used term clemency, which usually (but not always) refers to commuting the sentence. He was pardoned, which essentially removes the conviction.
 
grotto said:
Thank God this brave warrior has been pardoned. He was unjustly found guilty by political rules of engagement that were in place under the Obama Administration.
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Speaking as a former infantry soldier and a fellow officer, this guy was a murderer. Plain and simple. He was taking a prisoner who had already been held and was supposed to be taking him back to his home. The guys stopped somewhere along the way, pulled him out of the vehicle to question him, and ended up “getting into a scuffle” and shot the man. At the very least, this guy was guilty of negligent homicide and set a standard of behavior for his soldiers that is disgraceful. He is no hero and Trump was wrong to pardon him.
 
Your assessment is at complete odds with many Generals and other military officials. On what facts do you base your statement? Back it up!
 
grotto said:
Your assessment is at complete odds with many Generals and other military officials. On what facts do you base your statement? Back it up!
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I think he backed it up pretty well with his own military experience. I am a retired military officer, and I feel the same way. There is no excuse for his behavior, and it is certainly not something that could be described as brave or honorable. As to the support he has, I have looked for this supposed list of generals that support Behenna, but I have not seen it anywhere. There are hundreds of retired GOs, though, so I am sure there are some that support any given issue.
 
Judge not lest yeh be judged. He shot the prisoner when the prisoner attacked him. Was it correct that he personally interrogated the prisoner naked on the side of the road? No. But it’s understandable. The prisoner was involved in killing his friends just before being captured. I am reminded of the father who beat a man to death with his hands when he found him sexually assaulting his six year old daughter.

The LT was in the wrong but I have a hard time feeling sympathy for the victim.
 
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It probably said clemency because he had already served 5yrs in prison.
 
FirstFiveEighth said:
Was it correct that he personally interrogated the prisoner naked on the side of the road? No. But it’s understandable
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He disobeyed orders.
FirstFiveEighth said:
The LT was in the wrong but I have a hard time feeling sympathy for the victim.
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Why do you mention sympathy for the victim? AFAIK, no one has expressed any, and such sympathy has not relevance at all to the fact that the lieutenant disobeyed orders.
 
On the fact that you don’t strip prisoners naked in the field when returning them to their homes then point a gun in their face. And with regard to the military officials, it was the military officials that looked at the evidence and found him guilty of murder. So it appears that my assessment is not at odds with the military officials who were privy to the actual facts of the case.
 
TMC said:
There are hundreds of retired GOs, though, so I am sure there are some that support any given issue.
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But wouldn’t it be safe to assume, they looked into the specifics before signing on to a request to the President?

I’m also certain they aren’t saying he was an honorable soldier, just that there was a miscarriage of justice.
 
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