Parent of a pregnant minor

[Julianna]

Sounds like you have a lot of issues with your daughter besides this pregnancy…I would die if my mother ever talked about me the way you talk about her. What are you so angry about anyway?

Ten years have passed. I am not angry. Actually, our daughter son in law and grand baby live with us. Their rent went up and a year ago, they asked us how they could save money to purchase a house. My daughter…yes the one who hates me, asked if they could move in with us, pay a small rent, help my disabled husband with household maintenance. We all worked “together” on a plan. The house has 4 bedrooms, so everyone has their own space. They pay their own personal bills. Both work. My son (collge boomerang) is also here and has been very helpful to us with maintaning the ol homestead. Everyone does their part.

Just finished a fabulous lunch my daughter made for everyone. My son in law cut the lawn and trimmed the bushes. My DH is doing laundry and my son is hanging sheetrock in the attic …it’s about 85 degrees up there right now. I’m playing with grandbaby, printing coupons and my daughter and I will be working on this month’s shopping list.

They will be with us for possibly another year and that is fine.

So much for anger and hate.

 

[Nan_S]

I am a catholic lay person about this particular topic. I am not cathar, not jansenist, not puritan, not victorian, not anglican, not protestant, not externalist, non judgmentalism, not muslim, not jewish of The Old Testament, not christian orthodox, not in favor of christian heresies and not in favor of ideologies.

I promote of the natural goodness, of the Catholic Charity, of the natural biological filiation, of links between the family generations, of the catholic forgiveness, of the second chance, of the family generosity, of the natural solidarity…etc. The power of money, the power of the wrong heresies, the power of the wrong ideologies have to be fought with courage and force.

I am in favor of the natural family, of the conjugal love, of the natural biological filiation, of the civilization of Catholic Charity. I am pro-life, I am against the contraception, and I am against the abortion. I am against the sexual education at school: the sexual education has to be done by the parents or by catholic priests, by catholic nurses, by catholic physicians, by catholic educators and by catholic psychologists with the official and explicit agreement of parents. The parents have to give their agreements to the contents of this sexual education. The parents are the bosses about that.

LOVE, LOVE, LOVE, LOVE, LOVE, LOVE, LOVE IN THE CATHOLIC WAY

You’re also solidly opposed to adoption, except in the most extreme of cases. You’ve made that quite clear, over and over and over and over again.

Fortunately, this thread isn’t about you.

If you want to continue spouting that adoption is not part of “LOVE IN THE CATHOLIC WAY” you should start your own thread.

 

[Millie123]

What shocks me most in this thread is the very cavalier manner in which two of the parents here speak about their young, pregnant children. It really disturbs me. Clearly their real opinion of their children is that they are untrustworthy worthless pieces of garbage.

Haven’t teen age children who go behind their parents back to practice premarital sex proven themselves to be untrustworthy?

Let’s look further into these 2 concepts of the parents viewing their children as “untrustworthy” and “pieces of garbage”

Bringing this comment back to the pregnant 15 year old

1. Untrustworthy----This 15 year old has gone behind her parents back to have premarital sex with her 17 year old boyfriend. In what way is her behavior trustworthy? She is untrustworthy. This is fresh wound that this teenager has inflicted on her family. To recommend that the father in this situation “trust” his daughter to make the right decisions regarding her sex life would be tantamount to asking him to bury his head in the sand. The 15 year old is not trustworthy, her pre-marital sex has broken her parents trust. All of our sins have effects and for right now, for this 15 year old, losing her parents trust is an effect that she must deal with because of her sin. Maybe in the future she can earn this trust again. But, right now, she is not untrustworthy. I wouldn’t trust my teenage child if I found out they were having pre-marital sex. They would be untrustworthy.
2. Pieces of Garbage— I definitely do not see where this father is treating his daughter as a piece of garbage. In fact I think the opposite is true. As a Catholic parent I’m sure that he saw his daughter’s body as a holy temple of God, a place for Christ to rest when we receive him in holy communion. What this girl has done, through her pre-marital sex…is treat her body as a piece of garbage. Instead of valuing herself as God’s temple, she has made herself a sexual object for her 17 year old boyfriend… She has displayed her sexuality as garbage. I think that any parent would be severely saddened, disgusted, and angered to see their teen age children abuse, and debase their body in this manner. We raise our children to treat their bodies as if they belong to God, and it is the teen age child in this instance who has treated her body as if it is trash.

 

[fpt]

You’re also solidly opposed to adoption, except in the most extreme of cases. You’ve made that quite clear, over and over and over and over again.

Fortunately, this thread isn’t about you.

If you want to continue spouting that adoption is not part of “LOVE IN THE CATHOLIC WAY” you should start your own thread.

I am not against the process of adoption. Jesus had an adoptive father on Earth. Adoption is not a wrong institution, in reality, she was validated by God, by the Jesus’s situation with his terrestrial father, Saint Joseph. I have no difficulty with the adoption, per se. It is a noble institution for helping the orphans or the children in great difficulties for offering them parents, family and love. That is a wonderful institution, of course, I have no negative point of view on her, per se.

I wish only to say that the discerning for deciding the adoption has to be true, deep, real, lovable, fair, charitable, without heresy, catholic, holy, prudent, serious, free, without pressure and reasonable. The ultimate decider has to be the mother and before all all, the other solutions should be studied, really and objectively speaking, in the good faith in order to choose the adoption. The reasons should be serious or grave, like the words of Humanae Vitae, with an acception a little bit different, I mean serious or grave, with a level or degree a little more strong, because the natural moral is to stay with the mother. It is my humble opinion. In all honesty, my thought is trying to be balanced and moderated. The catholic moderation is my guide, I am attempting. Sorry, if my past messages were not understood.
**
The solution is to ask advice to the local priests.**

 

[fpt]

Haven’t teen age children who go behind their parents back to practice premarital sex proven themselves to be untrustworthy?

Let’s look further into these 2 concepts of the parents viewing their children as “untrustworthy” and “pieces of garbage”

Bringing this comment back to the pregnant 15 year old

1. Untrustworthy----This 15 year old has gone behind her parents back to have premarital sex with her 17 year old boyfriend. In what way is her behavior trustworthy? She is untrustworthy. This is fresh wound that this teenager has inflicted on her family. To recommend that the father in this situation “trust” his daughter to make the right decisions regarding her sex life would be tantamount to asking him to bury his head in the sand. The 15 year old is not trustworthy, her pre-marital sex has broken her parents trust. All of our sins have effects and for right now, for this 15 year old, losing her parents trust is an effect that she must deal with because of her sin. Maybe in the future she can earn this trust again. But, right now, she is not untrustworthy. I wouldn’t trust my teenage child if I found out they were having pre-marital sex. They would be untrustworthy.
2. Pieces of Garbage— I definitely do not see where this father is treating his daughter as a piece of garbage. In fact I think the opposite is true. As a Catholic parent I’m sure that he saw his daughter’s body as a holy temple of God, a place for Christ to rest when we receive him in holy communion. What this girl has done, through her pre-marital sex….is treat her body as a piece of garbage. Instead of valuing herself as God’s temple, she has made herself a sexual object for her 17 year old boyfriend… She has displayed her sexuality as garbage. I think that any parent would be severely saddened, disgusted, and angered to see their teen age children abuse, and debase their body in this manner. We raise our children to treat their bodies as if they belong to God, and it is the teen age child in this instance who has treated her body as if it is trash.

Are you serious with your words? This manner of writing, those images, those metaphors are not in link with the catholicism. The catholic message is not like that. The terms and the words are awful and are not very theological. A catholic priest do not speak like that.

In catholic theology, the sin of fornication is constituted when there is no conjugal vow: no agreement the mutual and reciprocal donation and reception of persons (body, soul and heart) for all the life. The real problem is here.

By presumption, because she is pregnant, she did not use the tools of contraception, no sin of contraception or of the unnatural sex acts. The fact of being pregnant is not a sin, per se.The Catholicism has a subtil and fair langage.

The meta moral of the structure of the sexual act was respected, by presumption because she is pregnant. She is not under contraception, she is not in favor of abortion for her baby, she did not make homosexual acts (the abomination).

 

[fpt]

Haven’t teen age children who go behind their parents back to practice premarital sex proven themselves to be untrustworthy?

Let’s look further into these 2 concepts of the parents viewing their children as “untrustworthy” and “pieces of garbage”

Bringing this comment back to the pregnant 15 year old

1. Untrustworthy----This 15 year old has gone behind her parents back to have premarital sex with her 17 year old boyfriend. In what way is her behavior trustworthy? She is untrustworthy. This is fresh wound that this teenager has inflicted on her family. To recommend that the father in this situation “trust” his daughter to make the right decisions regarding her sex life would be tantamount to asking him to bury his head in the sand. The 15 year old is not trustworthy, her pre-marital sex has broken her parents trust. All of our sins have effects and for right now, for this 15 year old, losing her parents trust is an effect that she must deal with because of her sin. Maybe in the future she can earn this trust again. But, right now, she is not untrustworthy. I wouldn’t trust my teenage child if I found out they were having pre-marital sex. They would be untrustworthy.
2. Pieces of Garbage— I definitely do not see where this father is treating his daughter as a piece of garbage. In fact I think the opposite is true. As a Catholic parent I’m sure that he saw his daughter’s body as a holy temple of God, a place for Christ to rest when we receive him in holy communion. What this girl has done, through her pre-marital sex…is treat her body as a piece of garbage. Instead of valuing herself as God’s temple, she has made herself a sexual object for her 17 year old boyfriend… She has displayed her sexuality as garbage. ****!!!!I think that any parent would be severely saddened, disgusted, and angered to see their teen age children abuse, and debase their body in this manner. We raise our children to treat their bodies as if they belong to God, and it is the teen age child in this instance who has treated her body as if it is trash.

You should say something like that: she have not respected the natural order of the vocation of her human sexuality because of a lack of conjugal vow between her and her boy friend for all the life. She has sin via the weak of flesh, she was not quite in link with Holy Trinity and Mary in order to get help for respecting the vocation of her sexed body. In my opinion, this type of message is more linked to the catholic moral. No pornography, no sexual exhibition, no moral offense concerning the public sexual moral. Only, a private sin of fornication. **May be, I am wrong. Ask to the catholic priests. **

 

[fpt]

Corrections

You should say something like that: she **has **not respected the natural order of the vocation of her human sexuality because of a lack of conjugal vow between her and her boy friend for all the life. She has sinned via the weak of flesh, she was not quite in link with Holy Trinity and Mary in order to get help for respecting the vocation of her sexed body. In my opinion, this type of message is more linked to the catholic moral. No pornography, no sexual exhibition, no moral offense concerning the public sexual moral. Only, a private sin of fornication. **May be, I am wrong. Ask to the catholic priests. **

 

[Millie123]

Are you serious with your words? This manner of writing, those images, those metaphors are not in link with the catholicism. The catholic message is not like that. The terms and the words are awful and are not very theological. A catholic priest do not speak like that.

In catholic theology, the sin of fornication is constituted when there is no conjugal vow: no agreement the mutual and reciprocal donation and reception of persons (body, soul and heart) for all the life. The real problem is here.

By presumption, because she is pregnant, she did not use the tools of contraception, no sin of contraception or of the unnatural sex acts. The fact of being pregnant is not a sin, per se.The Catholicism has a subtil and fair langage.

The meta moral of the structure of the sexual act was respected, by presumption because she is pregnant. She is not under contraception, she is not in favor of abortion for her baby, she did not make homosexual acts (the abomination).

Yes. I am 100 percent serious in everything that I wrote. I would like to ask you to reread again what I wrote. Not once did I mention pregnancy or call it sinful. Pregnancy is not a sin. So don’t accuse me of calling pregnancy sinful. I never wrote either of the words “pregnancy” or “pregnant.” Being pregnant is not a sin. And I NEVER SAID that it was.

I also never said or recommended that this teenager use contraception. That would be another sin that I did not talk about in my post. So where you would pulled that out from I have no idea. And that homosexuality sentence I have no idea where you pulled that out of either.

Let me clarify what i wrote. Her premarital sex is a sin. That is what it is. It is a sin. What would you like me to call it? A virtue? She has made herself a sexual object for her 17 year old boyfriend. That is what she has done and chosen for herself. Other people here have accused the parent of treating their daughter as garbage. But that is not what I have seen by this fathers discussion at all. This father has desired a virtuous and holy life for his daughter. What I have seen is a teenager who has portrayed and used her sexuality not as something that is sacred, which it is, but as something that is disposable, as if it were trash. I think that father in this situation places more value on his daughter’s body and soul than the teenage daughter does. She has so easily sexually objectified herself with her boyfriend. That is the sin. To make yourself a sexual object and participate in premarital sex is a sin and it is treating your body as if it were trash. I’m not going to call it a holy virtue because it is not, it is a sin.

 

[Nan_S]

The reasons should be serious or grave, like the words of Humanae Vitae, with an acception a little bit different, I mean serious or grave, with a level or degree a little more strong, because the natural moral is to stay with the mother.

Humanae Vitae is not about unwed parenthood, nor about adoption.

Humanae Vitae is about love and sexual relations between a husband and wife.

You are attempting to take the perspective of the church on artificial birth control within a marriage and apply that perspective to a situation which wasn’t even mentioned in that document. Read it for yourself and see:
vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html

If you’ll make an honest examination of Catholic church documents, you’ll find that single parenthood is considered to be a disordered state that violates the sovereignty of the family. Encouragement of single parenthood weakens the institution of the family.

PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR THE FAMILY
THE FAMILY AND HUMAN RIGHTS
vatican.va/roman_curia//pontifical_councils/family/documents/rc_pc_family_doc_20001115_family-human-rights_en.html

1. Moreover, to defend the sovereignty of the family is to contribute to the sovereignty of nations. Today, in the name of ideologies of Malthusian, hedonist and utilitarian inspiration, the family is the victim of forms of aggression that go as far as to question its existence. The communications media propagate the total separation of the unitive and procreative purposes of the conjugal union 63 and trivialize multiple pre and para-marital sexual experiences, thereby weakening the family institution.

1. What is worse is that under the impulse of international public organizations, presumably “new models” of the family are being put forth which include single parent homes and even homosexual unions. Some international UN agencies, supported by powerful lobbies, wish to impose “new human rights” on sovereign nations, such as “reproductive rights”, which include access to abortion, sterilization, easy divorce, a “lifestyle” for young persons that favors the trivialization of sex, and the weakening of parents’ lawful authority in their children’s education.65

APOSTOLIC EXHORTATION - FAMILIARIS CONSORTIO
OF POPE JOHN PAUL II
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_19811122_familiaris-consortio_en.html

1. An even more generous, intelligent and prudent pastoral commitment, modelled on the Good Shepherd, is called for in the case of families which, often independently of their own wishes and through pressures of various other kinds, find themselves faced by situations which are objectively difficult.

Such for example are the families of migrant workers; the families of those obliged to be away for long periods, such as members of the armed forces, sailors and all kinds of itinerant people; the families of those in prison, of refugees and exiles; the families in big cities living practically speaking as outcasts; families with no home;** incomplete or single-parent families**; families with children that are handicapped or addicted to drugs; the families of alcoholics; families that have been uprooted from their cultural and social environment or are in danger of losing it; families discriminated against for political or other reasons; families that are ideologically divided; families that are unable to make ready contact with the parish; families experiencing violence or unjust treatment because of their faith; teenage married couples; the elderly, who are often obliged to live alone with inadequate means of subsistence.

SYNOD OF BISHOPS
PASTORAL CHALLENGES TO THE FAMILY IN THE CONTEXT OF EVANGELIZATION
vatican.va/roman_curia/synod/documents/rc_synod_doc_20131105_iii-assemblea-sinodo-vescovi_en.html

Concerns which were unheard of until a few years ago have arisen today as a result of different situations, from the widespread practice of cohabitation, which does not lead to marriage, and sometimes even excludes the idea of it, to same-sex unions between persons, who are, not infrequently, permitted to adopt children. The many new situations requiring the Church’s attention and pastoral care include: mixed or inter-religious marriages;** the single-parent family;** polygamy; marriages with the consequent problem of a dowry, sometimes understood as the purchase price of the woman; the caste system; a culture of non-commitment and a presumption that the marriage bond can be temporary; forms of feminism hostile to the Church; migration and the reformulation of the very concept of the family; relativist pluralism in the conception of marriage; the influence of the media on popular culture in its understanding of marriage and family life; underlying trends of thought in legislative proposals which devalue the idea of permanence and faithfulness in the marriage covenant; an increase in the practice of surrogate motherhood (wombs for hire); and new interpretations of what is considered a human right. Within the Church, faith in the sacramentality of marriage and the healing power of the Sacrament of Penance show signs of weakness or total abandonment.

 

[fpt]

Yes. I am 100 percent serious in everything that I wrote. I would like to ask you to reread again what I wrote. Not once did I mention pregnancy or call it sinful. Pregnancy is not a sin. So don’t accuse me of calling pregnancy sinful. I never wrote either of the words “pregnancy” or “pregnant.” Being pregnant is not a sin. And I NEVER SAID that it was.

I also never said or recommended that this teenager use contraception. That would be another sin that I did not talk about in my post. So where you would pulled that out from I have no idea. And that homosexuality sentence I have no idea where you pulled that out of either.

Let me clarify what i wrote. Her premarital sex is a sin. That is what it is. It is a sin. What would you like me to call it? A virtue? She has made herself a sexual object for her 17 year old boyfriend. That is what she has done and chosen for herself. Other people here have accused the parent of treating their daughter as garbage. But that is not what I have seen by this fathers discussion at all. This father has desired a virtuous and holy life for his daughter. What I have seen is a teenager who has portrayed and used her sexuality not as something that is sacred, which it is, but as something that is disposable, as if it were trash. I think that father in this situation places more value on his daughter’s body and soul than the teenage daughter does. She has so easily sexually objectified herself with her boyfriend. That is the sin. To make yourself a sexual object and participate in premarital sex is a sin and it is treating your body as if it were trash. I’m not going to call it a holy virtue because it is not, it is a sin.

I have never accused you of writing that the pregnancy was a sin, even after the sin of forcination. I have never accused you of writing that she should have used the tools of contraception.

“She treats her body as a piece of garbage”: this sentence seems to me very strong, rude and too much puritan. In France, in Catholic families, the tone is not like that.

“She has displayed her sexuality as garbage.” The sense of this sentence would seem to talk about pornography and the sexual acts in front of third persons.

 

[Nan_S]

The church responds to the disorder of single parenthood by recognizing it as a reality, providing support and care to BOTH single parents and adoptive parents.

THE PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR THE FAMILY
THE TRUTH AND MEANING OF HUMAN SEXUALITY
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/family/documents/rc_pc_family_doc_08121995_human-sexuality_en.html

1. Through this remote formation for chastity in the family, adolescents and young people learn to live sexuality in its personal dimension, rejecting any kind of separation of sexuality from love — understood as self-giving — and any separation of the love between husband and wife from the family.

Parental respect for life and the mystery of procreation will spare the child or young person from the false idea that the two dimensions of the conjugal act, unitive and procreative, can be separated at will. Thus the family comes to be recognized as an inseparable part of the vocation to marriage.

It is also necessary to put before young people the consequences, which are always very serious, of separating sexuality from procreation when someone reaches the stage of practising sterilization and abortion or pursuing sexual activity dissociated from married love, before and outside of marriage.

1. In the context of formation in chastity, “fatherhood-motherhood” also includes one parent who is left alone and adoptive parents. The task of a single parent is certainly not easy because the support of the other spouse and the role and example of a parent of the other sex is lacking. But God sustains single parents with a special love and calls them to take on this task with the same generosity and sensitivity with which they love and care for their children in other areas of family life.

1. Some other persons are called upon in certain cases to take the place of parents: those who take on the parental role in a permanent way, for instance, for orphans or abandoned children. They, too, have the task of educating children and young people in an overall sense, as well as in chastity, and they will receive the grace of their state of life to do this according to the same principles that guide Christian parents.

1. Parents must never feel alone in this task. The Church supports and encourages them, confident that they can carry out this function better than anyone else. She also encourages those men or women who, often with great sacrifice, give children without parents a form of parental love and family life. In any case, all of them must approach this duty in a spirit of prayer, open and obedient to the moral truths of faith and reason that integrate the teaching of the Church, and always seeing children and young people as persons, children of God and heirs to the Kingdom of Heaven.

 

[fpt]

Humanae Vitae is not about unwed parenthood, nor about adoption.

Humanae Vitae is about love and sexual relations between a husband and wife.

You are attempting to take the perspective of the church on artificial birth control within a marriage and apply that perspective to a situation which wasn’t even mentioned in that document. Read it for yourself and see:
vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html

If you read me, I made a simple comparison in order to try to explain the normal sense of the fair reasons for give up a baby for the adoption process. Of course, Humanae Vitae does not concern the adoption, I know that. The comparison is helpful for trying to understand, in knowing that, the comparison is not reason.

 

[Nan_S]

Let me clarify what i wrote. Her premarital sex is a sin. That is what it is. It is a sin. What would you like me to call it? A virtue? She has made herself a sexual object for her 17 year old boyfriend. That is what she has done and chosen for herself. Other people here have accused the parent of treating their daughter as garbage. But that is not what I have seen by this fathers discussion at all. This father has desired a virtuous and holy life for his daughter. What I have seen is a teenager who has portrayed and used her sexuality not as something that is sacred, which it is, but as something that is disposable, as if it were trash. I think that father in this situation places more value on his daughter’s body and soul than the teenage daughter does. She has so easily sexually objectified herself with her boyfriend. That is the sin. To make yourself a sexual object and participate in premarital sex is a sin and it is treating your body as if it were trash. I’m not going to call it a holy virtue because it is not, it is a sin.

 

[fpt]

Humanae Vitae is not about unwed parenthood, nor about adoption.

Humanae Vitae is about love and sexual relations between a husband and wife.

You are attempting to take the perspective of the church on artificial birth control within a marriage and apply that perspective to a situation which wasn’t even mentioned in that document. Read it for yourself and see:
vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html

If you’ll make an honest examination of Catholic church documents, you’ll find that single parenthood is considered to be a disordered state that violates the sovereignty of the family. Encouragement of single parenthood weakens the institution of the family.

PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR THE FAMILY
THE FAMILY AND HUMAN RIGHTS
vatican.va/roman_curia//pontifical_councils/family/documents/rc_pc_family_doc_20001115_family-human-rights_en.html

APOSTOLIC EXHORTATION - FAMILIARIS CONSORTIO
OF POPE JOHN PAUL II
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_19811122_familiaris-consortio_en.html

SYNOD OF BISHOPS
PASTORAL CHALLENGES TO THE FAMILY IN THE CONTEXT OF EVANGELIZATION
vatican.va/roman_curia/synod/documents/rc_synod_doc_20131105_iii-assemblea-sinodo-vescovi_en.html

In my humble opinion, the Catholicism explains that the single parenthood (the fact of having a baby not in the context of a conjugal / marital covenant for all the life) is against the family. But, the Roman Catholic Church makes a difference between the sin of forcination, per se, less sinful, than the global doctrine in favor of the single parenthood organised and promoted by the States.

Here, the Church is fighting against the new mentalities, the new civil laws, the new heresies and the new ideologies that are against the culture of life and of the true family. I am totally on the same line. In addition, the teaching makes focus on the sins of the flesh, not in the context of the marriage (fornication and co).

 

[Millie123]

I have never accused you of writing that the pregnancy was a sin, even after the sin of forcination. I have never accused you of writing that she should have used the tools of contraception.

“She treats her body as a piece of garbage”: this sentence seems to me very strong, rude and too much puritan. In France, in Catholic families, the tone is not like that.

“She has displayed her sexuality as garbage.” The sense of this sentence would seem to talk about pornography and the sexual acts in front of third persons.

I am unaware with how the catholics in France speak. I am not a french catholic. I’m an American catholic who grew up with a bunch of brothers. I tend to be extremely blunt when I speak.

I do not view this girl as a piece of garbage. And I do not believe that the father in this situation views his daughter as garbage. What i think however is that the teen daughter does not place as much value on her body as her father…or I, a complete stranger places on her body. I place immense value on her body. Which is what i was addressing in my initial post. The poster that I was responding to accused the parents of treating their children as pieces of garbage. Which is not what I have seen at all. I do not see the father treating his daughter as if she is garbage. But the daughter treating her body as if it were trash. I do not believe that this girl is treating her body as a holy temple of God. I believe that she has so easily violated her body as if it is disposable with a boy and in effect treating her body as if it were a piece of garbage or even meat. She is not garbage, but that is not how she has portrayed her sexuality with her boyfriend. She has not portrayed her sexuality with her boyfriend as being pure, holy, and virtuous. She has portrayed her sexuality as if she is easily used…In effect treating her sexuality as if it is easily thrown away. I view her as a creature created in the image and likeness of god. I’m sure that is how her father has seen her as well. Which is why it is extremely all the more distressing to see a child so willingly and freely give up her body in this manner. As if she is disposable.

 

[fpt]

I have never accused you of writing that the pregnancy was a sin, even after the sin of fornication. I have never accused you of writing that she should have used the tools of contraception.

“She treats her body as a piece of garbage”: this sentence seems to me very strong, rude and too much puritan. In France, in Catholic families, the tone is not like that.

“She has displayed her sexuality as garbage.” The sense of this sentence would seem to talk about pornography and the sexual acts in front of third persons.

In all honesty, i do not think so that a catholic priest will use those words for explaining the sin of premarital sex for teenagers. The offense to the chastity is enough. The refusal of the ordered vocation of the human sexuality in the marriage is very relevant.
**
The word “garbage” seems very strange and not very theologic!!!**

 

[fpt]

I am unaware with how the catholics in France speak. I am not a french catholic. I’m an American catholic who grew up with a bunch of brothers. I tend to be extremely blunt when I speak.

I do not view this girl as a piece of garbage. And I do not believe that the father in this situation views his daughter as garbage. What i think however is that the teen daughter does not place as much value on her body as her father…or I, a complete stranger places on her body. I place immense value on her body. Which is what i was addressing in my initial post. The poster that I was responding to accused the parents of treating their children as pieces of garbage. Which is not what I have seen at all. I do not see the father treating his daughter as if she is garbage. But the daughter treating her body as if it were trash. I do not believe that this girl is treating her body as a holy temple of God. I believe that she has so easily violated her body as if it is disposable with a boy and in effect treating her body as if it were a piece of garbage or even meat. She is not garbage, but that is not how she has portrayed her sexuality with her boyfriend. She has not portrayed her sexuality with her boyfriend as being pure, holy, and virtuous. She has portrayed her sexuality as if she is easily used…In effect treating her sexuality as if it is easily thrown away. I view her as a creature created in the image and likeness of god. I’m sure that is how her father has seen her as well. Which is why it is extremely all the more distressing to see a child so willingly and freely give up her body in this manner. As if she is disposable.

We are probably on the same line, it is only an issue of using of words “garbage”. This word and an using of this word with a comparison seem to me to be, as catholic french, too much strong, with a rude tonality and not very theological. In reality, we have to be on the same line, I am almost sure. Only , the word “garbage” is not very in link with the moral theology, in my humble opinion. Otherwise, I understand your message.

May be, the barrier of language can influence a little mutual misunderstanding.

 

[Miserissima]

In that case, I encourage the OP, his wife, and his daughter to read “Pure Womanhood” by Krystallina Evert from chastity.com.

Ask yourself this: what has the father done or not done that a fifteen year old would be seeking out sexual attention from anyone? Why would she have been promiscuous? The statistical answer is a lack of feeling wanted, protected, and safe in a family unit, and a lack of appropriate bonding with the male role model in the family. YMMV.

When you point a finger, three are pointing right back at you, OP.

I’m also concerned that “giving her a lesson” in home economics is more punitive than educational.

The booklet I recommended is 2.50. Try reading into why she felt the desire to be promiscuous. I promise that this honest self evaluation is what will really make or break this family. Start with the “Starting Over” section at chastity.com.

 

[adawgj]

This might sound bad, but from an economic standpoint if you keep the baby your daughter might be qualified for numerous scholarships.

 

[masondoggy]

This might sound bad, but from an economic standpoint if you keep the baby your daughter might be qualified for numerous scholarships.

When I first started college, I got 100% grants because I had two babies.