Parents’ ‘Sex Ed Sit Out’ Protesting Forced Gender Ideology in Schools Spreads Across Country

[ModernCatholic]

Again, why are there Catholics who suport transgenderism? The Church is pretty clear. “Societal pressures” don’t matter, “social constructs” don’t matter. None of that comes into play. If God created someone male and they go around pretending to be female–it doesn’t matter if they simply dress or act or get a “gender transplant” or even get a “soul transplant” and artificially make everything about them female–they have clearly rejected God by rejecting the way he made them. Gender isn’t even the same as anything else like race, etc. Why? Because gender is the most important human variable that plays into our lives. God intended for it to happen, unlike race, nationality, rich/poor, etc. No one can be a saint by rejecting their gender. It’s just not possible. And it becomes a grave sin since we worship God in heaven with our bodies. If you’ve corrupted your body then only God knows what will happen to you… As for this idea of “male trapped in female body”, that doesn’t exist. The physical shape of the body determines gender, not brain, not feelings, but the BODY. You can’t call a brain male or female. Even of it has more similar characteristics to another gender, it still makes no sense. That’s like calling a succesful black person a “white in a black body”. And if we can just choose to identify your gender as whatever we want at any given time, what is the point of the genders at all? If you can choose to be whatever, then to be male or female all of a sudden looses all it’s importance and significance. And then when that’s stripped away, it becomes clear that that person (even of subconciously) wants something of the experience, societal pressures, and biological benefits which come along with womanhood, not that they are actually a woman. As for “non-binary” I don’t know what to say–male and female, God created them, anything else comes from the devil period.

 

[JoyToTheWhirled]

Just back from my volunteer work, so forgive me for jumping back in when you’ve all gone to bed!

Here’s the thing. I don’t really care if a man thinks he is a woman, or indeed if he has dysphoria to the point that he decides to have plastic surgery or if he is allowed to apply for a legal fiction to say that he is a woman. The people that struggle with dysphoria are certainly to be treated with respect, just as any other human. What they cannot do is require the rest of the world to bend to their view of themselves. That isn’t a human right in any part of the world and nor should it be.

I am a Catholic and believe in transubstantiation. I am free to do so. I am not free to insist that the government enact laws that compel everyone else to believe that I receive the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ at communion.

My objection to the pushing of certain quarters on the trans issue is when it encroaches on the rights of women and girls. I am very happy that you are comfortable with trans women in your private spaces, Alex, but you are not the totality of womankind, and your position completely disregards the many, many women who are deeply distressed by the male body, for all sorts of very valid reasons. Female spaces are specifically designed for them.
I know a woman who went through nightmarish abuse at the hands of her husband, and to this day struggles enormously being in close quarters with men, be they doctors or workmen. She would be utterly, utterly horrified to have escaped to a refuge only to find it staffed or shared with male bodied individuals, and she has every right to expect that wouldn’t be the case.
I have the right to request a female to do intimate exams like smear tests. My physical and psychological comfort in that vulnerable space is completely paramount.

These are biologically based needs, and the right to them has been hard won. To have a contingent of people come along and say that actually, it’s not possible to clearly define what a woman is, so women and girls need to roll over and surrender their rights to whosoever demands they do so is profoundly disturbing. Women are allowed to set their own boundaries, and if other women are telling you that their boundaries are stricter than yours, you really don’t get to say they are wrong on the basis that you can’t personally really tell what a woman actually is.

 

[ModernCatholic]

Exactly. Same goes for men. Someone doesn’t have to have been abused to feel uncomfortable with the opposite sex in their bathrooms. What takes priority in a physical space created to suit the needs of certain biological features, whether or not they have those biological features or whether they feel as though they identify as that gender. As for people who have taken hormones and recieved a transplant (the whole package), they are still whatever they were assigned at birth in God’s eyes, the eyes of the Church, and therefore our eyes. Even if we don’t feel uncomfortable because they look like they fit in, we can still affirm that what they did was wrong.

 

[normdplume]

A young boy or girl with body dysmorphic disorder, who is uncomfortable with those of the same gender, needs to be addressed as having a mental health need.

Homosexuals used to be treated as having a mental health disorder. It took decades for most people to realize that being a homosexual is not a choice. Do we really need to subject transgender people to a similar process?

 

[JoyToTheWhirled]

Trickypixie:

A young boy or girl with body dysmorphic disorder, who is uncomfortable with those of the same gender, needs to be addressed as having a mental health need.

Homosexuals used to be treated as having a mental health disorder. It took decades for most people to realize that being a homosexual is not a choice. Do we really need to subject transgender people to a similar process?

Well that really rather depends on your definition of trans, tbh. People with gender dysphoria have the right to expect medical assistance to help them deal with their situation. I would say it was something of an imperative to make sure they have access to that help.

Unfortunately the umbrella of ‘transgender’ is burgeoning to the point of ridiculousness wherein some consider it ‘transphobic’ to suggest that dysmorphia is even necessary to be considered trans. Trans becomes a catch all for any old bod who decides they fancy being a bit Outre, which dilutes the significant actual mental health needs of those people with dysphoria.

 

[Pup7]

These are biologically based needs, and the right to them has been hard won. To have a contingent of people come along and say that actually, it’s not possible to clearly define what a woman is, so women and girls need to roll over and surrender their rights to whosoever demands they do so is profoundly disturbing. Women are allowed to set their own boundaries, and if other women are telling you that their boundaries are stricter than yours, you really don’t get to say they are wrong on the basis that you can’t personally really tell what a woman actually is.

I’m out of likes, Joy…so here’s one. Okay, two.

 

[Pup7]

Again, why are there Catholics who suport transgenderism? The Church is pretty clear. “Societal pressures” don’t matter, “social constructs” don’t matter.

I don’t, actually - I hope you didn’t think I do. The social construct was in response to trying to explain how a man has no idea what it’s like to grow up as a girl.

 

[emilysue]

I am acquainted with three older (50+) women who are lesbians. Each of them has separately told me that they don’t understand transgender ideology very well and that each of them, if they were growing up today, would probably be offered hormones etc. As young teens, they all felt trapped in the wrong body and felt more like boys. After puberty (each of them said it was very late teens or early 20s), they each came to accept their biological sex – that they were indeed women, but attracted to other women. Had they been young girls today in counseling, expressing thoughts of being trapped in the wrong body, what would have happened? These ladies are all very liberal and support all sorts of LGBT causes – but they wonder, are all these kids receiving hormone treatments really transgender, or are they gay/lesbian? Why so many transgender kids now? One actually argued that the counseling profession, or perhaps those seeking treatment, might be subconsciously biased against lesbians. Her argument, as best I can understand it, is that some people subconsciously consider being a man better than being a woman, therefore subconsciously consider being a transman better than being a lesbian, a privileging of masculinity over the full spectrum of femininity and a way of keeping femininity in a certain box. (Likewise, she said, those who transition from male to female almost invariably wear “stereotypical” clothing like dresses/skirts, which she says is another way of putting femininity in a certain box and pressuring women to conform to certain standards of appearance. If you are female, either biologically or by identification, you ought to look a certain way. Etc.)

I don’t always agree with these ladies, but these discussions with them have been thought-provoking. If they have questions about all this, then certainly it’s understandable that I have questions too.

 

[Pup7]

Interesting. Now she hasn’t had her chromosomes tested but if it did turn out she had XY; what would she be?

Male. And with XY karyotype she would not naturally, without hormones, resemble a female in any way. That is a normal male karyotype. Basic biology, and you know that.

 

[ModernCatholic]

Didn’t think you, just in general.

 

[pnewton]

Also, another person’s identity isn’t about what you want.

A person’s self-identity isn’t about what others want. There sure have been a lot of people here who say they only care about how they see themselves, but then turn around and spend energy trying to get others to see them that way.

 

[JimG]

So, do obstetricians when a baby is born or when looking at an ultrasound announce any more that “it’s a boy” or “it’s a girl”? Or do they throw up their hands and say “who knows? We’ll have to wait till the kid is old enough to decide.”?

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

Trickypixie hasn’t been on this thread for days, I mean, hundreds of posts ago.
Your post doesn’t address the original question–parents sitting out of forced gender education.

 

[mVitus]

Male. And with XY karyotype she would not naturally, without hormones, resemble a female in any way. That is a normal male karyotype. Basic biology, and you know that.

What about Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome?
http://www.isna.org/faq/conditions/ais
It’s a case like that which makes me wonder at times if the determination gender is through the chromosomes or the (natural) phenotype. (And if anyone has Church sources, I’d be interested.)

 

[Pup7]

XY karyotype with androgen resistance still makes you a phenotypic male. It doesn’t create a vagina.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

I thought it could do. I’m sure I read a story of a woman who didn’t know she was XY with AIS until investigations for infertility. I will try and find it as I could be wrong and it referred to another condition.

Personally I would argue in this case she had a woman’s body and was socialised as female even if her karyotype was XY.

 

[JoyToTheWhirled]

Which is one of the outliers of human biology that can throw up odd cases. If this whole trans movement was actually an intersex awareness thing, that would be one thing.

But we are not talking about intersex. We are talking about someone who is genetically one sex, has the physiology of that sex, the hormone production of that sex, is entirely that sex in fact, feeling in their head that they are actually the other sex. That is literally the definition of the phenomena. Investigating chromosome variations is a sideshow because the underlying prop to this whole farrago is that you can’t define someone’s sex class by their biology, despite the evidence of the ages, and must instead define sex classes on ephemera.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

I agree, I don’t think this womans experience is comparable in any way to that of a phenotypically normal man, raised as male who for whatever motivation wants to be a woman.

 

[Pup7]

That means there was possibly something else going on - genetic anomalies tend to occur in multiples. I’ll qualify myself by saying “I’m not aware that would be the case” - and that’s a fair observation on your part.

 

[mVitus]

From the symptoms lines at Androgen insensitivity syndrome: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

A person with complete AIS appears to be female but has no uterus, and has very little armpit and pubic hair. At puberty, female sex characteristics (such as breasts) develop. However, the person does not menstruate and become fertile.
People with incomplete AIS may have both male and female physical characteristics. Many have partial closing of the outer vagina, an enlarged clitoris, and a short vagina.

There may be:
-A vagina but no cervix or uterus
-Inguinal hernia with testes that can be felt during a physical exam
-Normal female breasts
-Testes in the abdomen or other atypical places in the body

As Joy said, these aren’t the cases transgender refers to, but for the purpose of intersex I wonder as to if it’s the physical or phenotype.