Parents excluded from Confirmation preparation classes

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I repeat and will continue repeating on every thread of this nature: if you are not happy with religious education in your parish, and you refuse to become involved, as a catechist, volunteer, coordinator, member of parish education and formation commission, or some other way, then you have aquiesced in what is going on.
This is so true. It is very hard to take someone seriously, when their only participation is complaining about the program.

DREs should also know that it is also very hard to attend the meetings when they are held during class time. If I am volunteering to teach another class, that means I can’t attend the meeting. And if I can’t attend the meeting because I am teaching, then don’t tell me a month later that I should know something that was said in the meeting. Find a sub for me, so I can go to the meeting or have the meeting at a different time.
 
Although, I must admit, that for some families it’s what brought them back to the Church. The children had a separate Liturgy of the Word each Sunday which brought their families. The direct catechesis was a family format in that the parents’ presence & participation was expected at each session. For some it was what they needed to kick start their faith and their journey. Many of them were heard to say “My child was not the only one to learn from these sessions, I learned so much that I had never known.” All these parents had gone to Catholic schools so it leads one to wonder what exactly was taught in the 70s & 80s when they were going to school.
Hi Phemie, thanks for sharing that! I love the idea that confirmation training for older children can also be a catalyst for the parents (and thus, hopefully the entire family) to grow in their knowledge and practice of the faith.
 
*A little off topic, but question–why is a freshman in highschool going through 3 years of confirmation prep classes? :confused: My son was confirmed in 8th grade, so was I, so was my husband, so will my daughter be, next spring. *
"For the past 27 years, since 1979, the practice of the Archdiocese of Milwaukee has been that our young people approach the sacrament of confirmation around the age of 16 or 17, usually in junior year of high school. "

The topic of confirmation age was reviewed in a “consultation” initiated by Archbishop Dolan in 2006 - but the junior year of high school was retained at the conclusion of the review. Here’s a few articles on the review process:

archmil.org/news/ShowNews.asp?ID=2579
archmil.org/news/ShowArchivedNews.asp?ID=2580

And while I was looking for the policy, I ran across this fascinating post about the rights of younger Catholics to request confirmation in advance of the standard age in their diocese:

dad29.blogspot.com/2006/08/age-of-confirmation-dustup.html

As a parent, I do wish that my kids could receive confirmation around the age of 13. My rationale is that teenagers are being faced with more and more “adult” issues younger and younger in our society: drinking, drugs, sexuality, teen pregnancy, and abortion, to name a few. The decisions that our teenagers make on these topics will literally affect them for the rest of their lives. These are adult decisions – and thus I believe that teenagers should have the benefit of making adult decisions with adult graces…

God bless!
 
I believe confirmation is junior year here, too. It’s only a two year program, though.
 
I have been a catechist at 2 parishes, and cannot even remotely imagine how absurd it would have been to have a parent in the classroom. It’s hard enough to establish honest involvement and hear questions from students in front of one another, let alone asking them to ask and answer questions in front of another adult they do or do not know. If you can’t feel comfortable with your child being in the available catechist’s classes, AFTER you have honestly made an attempt to speak with him/her, you need to speak directly with the pastor to consider any other possible arrangement.

Students also are of different backgrounds and have varying knowledge bases. Some of their parents instill the faith in them and some don’t; some have been in class every year, and some haven’t been since First Communion. Some of them care about what is taught, and some don’t. It is not easy to teach to a group of students with such differing needs. A parent would bring yet another element to the mix…Parents were always welcome to discuss any concerns with me, but at 1 parish students or their parents usually bypassed me altogether if they had any concern at all and went directly to the DRE to switch to another teacher. This only made it MORE difficult to figure out what my students’ needs were - most of their concerns were that they didn’t understand something I was discussing! (Well, ask me to explain what you don’t understand! That’s what students are supposed to do in classes!)
 
I have been a catechist at 2 parishes, and cannot even remotely imagine how absurd it would have been to have a parent in the classroom. It’s hard enough to establish honest involvement and hear questions from students in front of one another, let alone asking them to ask and answer questions in front of another adult they do or do not know. If you can’t feel comfortable with your child being in the available catechist’s classes, AFTER you have honestly made an attempt to speak with him/her, you need to speak directly with the pastor to consider any other possible arrangement.

Students also are of different backgrounds and have varying knowledge bases. Some of their parents instill the faith in them and some don’t; some have been in class every year, and some haven’t been since First Communion. Some of them care about what is taught, and some don’t. It is not easy to teach to a group of students with such differing needs. A parent would bring yet another element to the mix…Parents were always welcome to discuss any concerns with me, but at 1 parish students or their parents usually bypassed me altogether if they had any concern at all and went directly to the DRE to switch to another teacher. This only made it MORE difficult to figure out what my students’ needs were - most of their concerns were that they didn’t understand something I was discussing! (Well, ask me to explain what you don’t understand! That’s what students are supposed to do in classes!)
I’ve always welcomed parents in my RE classroom and usually have had several at any one time. I’ve encouraged parents to come to me with any questions they have about what we’re covering, whether the parents are there for the lesson or not. After all, in the long run it doesn’t matter what I actually said. It matters what the child* thinks* I said when relating the lesson the next day. If one child misunderstood, others might have done so, too.

In fact, I make it very clear at the start that not only what their child learns but whether their child takes it to heart depends far more on them than on me. There is only so much I can do; without their active involvement in their child’s faith, what I can do is very little, indeed. It is my privelege to help them out on a journey that they started when they had their little one baptized, and that will go on long after our class is over. As far as I’m concerned, if they’re exerting themselves enough to get their child to RE, they’re doing better than a lot, and they deserve credit for that. We can go from there. So I guess I see myself more of a midwife than as the primary teacher. The Church sets the facts, the diocese sets the curriculum, the parish chooses the teaching materials, but the parents are the primary teachers.

The students aren’t over 5th grade, but they haven’t had any trouble discussing things in front of their parents. In fact, I’d say that the students stay on topic and behave better with three other adults sitting in the back of the classroom than they do when it is just the two official catechists.

Maybe it seems easy because in my last job I taught chemistry to students who were mainly in the class because a good grade in chemistry is required to get into the medical field…that is, everybody needed the grade, nobody wanted to major in chemistry. It makes sense that RE would seem fairly tame by comparison.

Besides, it was being in my children’s RE classroom that convinced me, “Hey, I can do this.” Sometimes, the only thing a parent needs to get involved is some encouragement, and the presumption of competence.
 
I don’t mind having parents in the classroom - they help to keep discipline. I’ve never seen kids get shy just because their Mom was in the room - in fact, some of them actually start “showing off” and contributing more effectively when their parents are there.
 
This is so true. It is very hard to take someone seriously, when their only participation is complaining about the program.

DREs should also know that it is also very hard to attend the meetings when they are held during class time. If I am volunteering to teach another class, that means I can’t attend the meeting. And if I can’t attend the meeting because I am teaching, then don’t tell me a month later that I should know something that was said in the meeting. Find a sub for me, so I can go to the meeting or have the meeting at a different time.
It is also hard for many parents to attend the meeting other than the class time so we try to schedule what works best for most.

parents and sponsors in this parish have a choice of 7 different dates and times during the the year, weekend mornings and afternoons, weekday evenings, for each of the meetings. and they have several options for making up a meeting. Yes I can give copies of handouts but that does not replace discussion.

if after two years of sacramental preparation they have missed 14 chances for the meeting, frankly I question their interest or commitment
 
It is also hard for many parents to attend the meeting other than the class time so we try to schedule what works best for most.

parents and sponsors in this parish have a choice of 7 different dates and times during the the year, weekend mornings and afternoons, weekday evenings, for each of the meetings. and they have several options for making up a meeting. Yes I can give copies of handouts but that does not replace discussion.

if after two years of sacramental preparation they have missed 14 chances for the meeting, frankly I question their interest or commitment
We had two meetings. One was in September, one was in March. Both were during class time. I ended up missing the first one. And then had to scrounge around for a sub for the second after finding out how much I missed in the first meeting. 🤷
 
I don’t mind having parents in the classroom - they help to keep discipline. I’ve never seen kids get shy just because their Mom was in the room - in fact, some of them actually start “showing off” and contributing more effectively when their parents are there.
My feeling is that because the Church holds that parents are the primary educators of the children, there has to be a rather serious reason for ever keeping parents out. Past problems with parental disruptions that other measures have not managed to address would be one of those reasons. Even then, though, the solution can’t stop at just throwing all of the parents out. Their right to parental oversight would also have to be satisfied in another way, such as being willing to record the sessions, or giving them written notes that include all of what is taught. That doesn’t mean the parents get to choose what sort of oversight they’re going to get, nor does it mean that the actual parents who have abused their priveleged position have to be accomodated. Rights can be lost by one’s own bad behavior. But the parents as a group should not lose their rights by the actions of a few.

Now, if parents have the right to home-school, that is a bit of a different situation. It would be OK for a pastor to say, “if you want us to do your teaching for you, here are the conditions (which include no parents in the classroom and accepting the pastor’s judgement about curriculum)…otherwise, do it yourself, demonstrating to me you have done it by meeting conditions x, y, and z by this date, if you want your son or daughter is confirmed on this date…”
 
Hi all, I received a response via private message that I also thought would be of interest to those following this thread.

God bless.
one of the guidelines for the child safety programs such as Protecting God’s Children which have been adopted by virtually every diocese in the country is that parents must have access to the classrooms at all times. Parents who stay to volunteer on a regular basis must have the child safety orientation, but the classroom has to be open to parents. If your parish is not adhering to that, follow the advice of another poster who advised going to your diocesan website and finding out exactly what are the child safety guidelines, and what are the regulations for sacramental prep. If your parish does not comply, ask your pastor (not the DRE) why or why not.
 
one of the guidelines for the child safety programs such as Protecting God’s Children which have been adopted by virtually every diocese in the country is that parents must have access to the classrooms at all times. Parents who stay to volunteer on a regular basis must have the child safety orientation, but the classroom has to be open to parents. If your parish is not adhering to that, follow the advice of another poster who advised going to your diocesan website and finding out exactly what are the child safety guidelines, and what are the regulations for sacramental prep. If your parish does not comply, ask your pastor (not the DRE) why or why not.
This is an excellent point…but it doesn’t change the fact that parents could, though bad behavior, lose their rightful access to their child’s classroom as a whole. They could be told they have the right to take their child out, but have no right themselves to go in. Also, it is my impression that parents do not have to be given immediate access to their children if the child has made revelations regarding actions or neglect by their parents that cause the civil child protective services to be called. The parents don’t have a right to have an opportunity for witness tampering before the authorities get there. So there are that kind of exceptions, but normally a parent should always have the kind of access to their children that denies any predators an expectation of privacy or a chance to intimidate a child victim.
 
This is an excellent point…but it doesn’t change the fact that parents could, though bad behavior, lose their rightful access to their child’s classroom as a whole. They could be told they have the right to take their child out, but have no right themselves to go in. Also, it is my impression that parents do not have to be given immediate access to their children if the child has made revelations regarding actions or neglect by their parents that cause the civil child protective services to be called. The parents don’t have a right to have an opportunity for witness tampering before the authorities get there. So there are that kind of exceptions, but normally a parent should always have the kind of access to their children that denies any predators an expectation of privacy or a chance to intimidate a child victim.
this is true but not relevant to the current discussion of OP’s particular grievance about practices at his parish.

the points many catechists have made about the presence of parents in the classroom are very well taken. Yes a parent who is disruptive will be asked to leave, but that also is not OP’s situation unless we did not get the whole story.

A general policy is good only insofar as everyone adheres to the policies and procedures, no rights are absolute.

the most disruption I see of parents of teens in the classroom is when the parent insists on taking over aspects of the learning from the child–prompting the child to answer, criticizing him in front of the others, forcing him to reveal private information, even breaking his confidence with others, answering for him, we even have parents who want to take the retreat for the child.
 
this is true but not relevant to the current discussion of OP’s particular grievance about practices at his parish.

the points many catechists have made about the presence of parents in the classroom are very well taken. Yes a parent who is disruptive will be asked to leave, but that also is not OP’s situation unless we did not get the whole story.

A general policy is good only insofar as everyone adheres to the policies and procedures, no rights are absolute.

the most disruption I see of parents of teens in the classroom is when the parent insists on taking over aspects of the learning from the child–prompting the child to answer, criticizing him in front of the others, forcing him to reveal private information, even breaking his confidence with others, answering for him, we even have parents who want to take the retreat for the child.
I’m saying that if the current policy excludes parents entirely, that policy may be in reaction to real past problems having nothing to do with the OP. That may not be fair to parents who’ve done nothing wrong. I mean that it is not just gracious to automatically include parents by considering them among the teachers of the confirmandi. As long as those parents have done nothing wrong, it is their right and duty to be considered the primary teachers.

For instance, it is one thing to say that not every parent will be allowed to go on the retreat. Of course that is reasonable. It is another to say that the chosen chaperones shall not include any of the parents, period. It is fair for the parents to insist that there will be some parents there, and that the selection ought to be satisfactory to a supermajority of the other parents. (In practice, though, it is often so hard to get enough chaperones, even including the parents who are felt as thorns in the DRE’s side, that the DRE has to scramble to find enough adults to fill in.)
 
I’m. I mean that it is not just gracious to automatically include parents by considering them among the teachers of the confirmandi. As long as those parents have done nothing wrong, it is their right and duty to be considered the primary teachers.

)
parents are the primary teachers of their own children, to teach the rest of the class they need catechist certification and child safety training just like everyone else does. OP was not asking to be a co-catechist in his child’s class, he was asking to be present at least enough to know who is teaching his child, what will be taught, and whether the program will be run on orthodox lines, as I understand his question.

yeah right like there are hoards of parents clamoring to be retreat chaperones. I wish. Then we could actually have an overnight retreat as the diocese prescribes.
 
parents are the primary teachers of their own children, to teach the rest of the class they need catechist certification and child safety training just like everyone else does. OP was not asking to be a co-catechist in his child’s class, he was asking to be present at least enough to know who is teaching his child, what will be taught, and whether the program will be run on orthodox lines, as I understand his question.

yeah right like there are hoards of parents clamoring to be retreat chaperones. I wish. Then we could actually have an overnight retreat as the diocese prescribes.
Yes. My understanding is that the OP was willing to be a co-catechechist, but mostly was puzzled at the blunt pronouncement that parents were “not invited.” I think we agree that this is the problem, not that the OP wanted to circumvent reasonable safety measures or to take over the class. Her parish’s policy is one that requires some explanation, to say the least.

I would like to say that it is preposterous to think that someone within a parish staff would want free reign to indoctrinate youth with ideas that are outside the faith, but I’m sorry that I can’t. Oh, I’m sure it’s within what they define as the faith, but not that it’s according to what Rome teaches. If I wasn’t comfortable that a particular teaching team was teaching according to Hoyle, I’d raise a fuss, no less if my sons were 17 than if they were 7.
 
There were adults there for the retreat. But the retreat was planned and run by students. 🤷 I all but begged to get him out of the retreat. I was told, no retreat, no confirmation. I was also told in so many words that they had been having retreats like this for years and no one else ever complained. I tried to volunteer to be one of the adults at the retreat, but was told they had enough adults.

I have to admit that the movie was the Passion of Christ and they only showed part of it.
I’m sorry for your difficult experiences.

All activities in Diocese of the US need to comply with the Safe Environment standards. One can always request confirmation that those standards are being upheld. * I don’t know if each exact requirement is the same all across the US *but in our Diocese which requires the Shield The Vulnerable training for every person who does any sort of “ministry” in the parish (choir, lectors, EMs, greeters etc.) among other requirements are:

FOR MINISTRY TO MINORS OF THE DIOCESE
8. Youth group trips of any kind must have a** minimum of two adult chaperones, at least one of whom should be of the same sex as the young people**. Larger groups must have at least one adult chaperone for every ten minors.
  1. Audiovisual, music (including lyrics) and print resources used in programs must be screened prior to use to ensure their appropriateness for the participants. **It is never appropriate to use an “R” rated movie **or movies rated with an even stronger designation.
It’s unlikely (unthinkable) your teachers have not followed the very strict guidelines in place in your Diocese, but it’s always important to be aware of the many levels of protections that go into ensuring good, and safe, experiences for our children. (Parents should know what the requirements are in your Diocese.)

It’s commendable that your parish has plenty of adults willing to work with the CCD and retreats. That isn’t the case many places.

I don’t remember my Confirmation preparation at all, it was many decades ago, but I do very much remember the sacrament of Confirmation itself. Hopefully over time the unhelpful experiences will fade in your son’s memory, replaced by the many gifts of the Church. 🙂

God bless.

P.S. I doubt that no one has ever complained. I’m not a DRE but am around them often and they are bombarded by complaints from parents… They deserve more TLC 🙂
 
Hi all, here is another interesting reference on this thread. This discusses the right of Catholic parents to homeschool their children under canon law:

catholiceducation.org/articles/education/ed0224.html

The article goes on to quote from the Pontifical Commission for the Family (PCF) and asserts that parents have the right to provide religious education for their children on their own, rather than participating in parish religious education programs.

Far from stopping at theoretical principles, the PCF goes on to apply the principles to the concrete question of home schooling. Nowhere does the PCF state that the Church requires parents to send their children to Catholic schools, whether in Canon 798 or Gravissimum Educationis 8 or anywhere else. On the contrary, it strongly and clearly states:
The role of the pastor, therefore, is to give a service of assistance by providing the parents with the means to form their child. The parents, however are not obliged to accept this assistance if they prefer to exercise exclusively their obligation and right to educate their own children. This is a natural right, and is not altered by the right of the Church. E.g., cc. 793, 914. (emphasis added)
There is no doubt that the PCF sees no canonical obligation for parents to make use of parish sacramental programs or even Catholic schools if, after a reasoned and prayerful consideration, parents decide to undertake the obligation of educating their children themselves. This right of parents is perfectly in line with canon law, and indeed is protected by canon law. Recall that Canon 796 §1 states that schools are the principal assistance to parents in fulfilling the function of education. As the Pontifical Council underscores, parents are under no obligation to accept this assistance.
 
Hi all,

My oldest son is a freshman in high school, and starting a three-year preparation for the sacrament of Confirmation in our parish religious education classes. In an email discussion with the confirmation coordinator, I was told that parents are not invited to attend the confirmation class sessions.

This concerns me as a parent. Does this sound normal or appropriate?

There is so much dissention in the Church, as a parent I think it would be appropriate for parents to have the option to participate and to hear what is being presented in the classes as Catholic teaching. I would be happy to participate in some role as a volunteer, assistant instructor, etc.

Also, I am not a theologian but my understanding of the Church’s principle of “subsidiarity” is that the parents are primarily responsible for the moral and religious education of their children, and that parish religious education programs exist to assist the parents in fulfilling that responsibility – not replacing them or usurping parental authority. I was looking at this link, which captures some of the key ideas but doesn’t address my specific concerns:
insightscoop.typepad.com/2004/2009/09/parents-having-given-life-to-their-children-are-their-primary-and-principal-educators.html

Thanks and God bless,

CheeseHead1
YOu are correct about the role of parents and the parish religion classes in educating your teen about the faith. I suspect, however, their concern may be two fold–they will want the teens to feel free to participate in discussion, which some would not if parents are present, and second, they may have space restrictions which prevent regular attendance by more than one or two concerned parents. Surely the DRE would be willing to share with you the materials that are to be used so that you can review them? And hopefully your teen is open and willing to tell you about his classes. I understand your discomfort. Certainly there are many less than orthodox catechists about. At our parish your willingniess to voluteer would most likely be welcomed, but if they have as moany or more than they need, they might be less accomodating there, too.
 
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