Parents of Gay Children, having "the talk"

[Joie_de_Vivre]

There was no discussion of a “single” vocation. In fact, I don’t even no what a “single” vocation is. I’ve heard of prayers and Masses said for religious people and I’ve heard of prayers and special Masses for marriages, but I’ve never heard of a Mass or discussion of single people. Single Catholics are generally treated as future married people. That seems to be the purpose of most young adults groups.

Lay celibacy has basically been forgotten, if you want to be a lay celibate* you’ll have to blaze your own path.

*technically sisters and brothers are lay celibates, but I’m not talking about them.

I think that this is very dismissive of the importance of family. For many people, the only people that they have to rely on is their spouse and their children. And I’m relaying my own experiences being a single girl who hasn’t found a guy yet (and the prospects are truly awful out there.) The only support system I have in the world is my parents. I’m an only child and cannot imagine the prospect of having to care for them alone in old age or deal with their deaths alone. I cannot imagine having to get old myself and die alone. I have “friends” but they seem to drift away once they marry. I’m the third wheel and it is very awkward. I feel like I’m constantly giving but don’t receive any support from them. Which is okay because they have families of their own to care for. But they are very one-sided relationships.

True friendship is much rarer and far more precious than love.

That is just the way that the modern world works. People don’t have deep and significant connections outside nuclear families. That desire to love and be loved and have that warm sense of belonging is why gay people which to form families and why people remarry after divorce. Yet, the Church is denying such support to whole swaths of people, especially gays and divorcees, and isn’t providing any alternative support structures. As I said, there really isn’t a place in many parishes for Catholic singles; in fact, there aren’t warm atmosphere for most people at many Catholic parishes.

What I’d like is for the Church in general and individual Christians who argue against gay marriage to be more positive and open to gay people in particular as well as single people in general. I think that having positive singles ministries that aren’t glorified dating sites would be a huge start.

There really does need to be better support structures, but that isn’t something for the Church to do, that is something for the laity to do. What is need is a revival of friendship.

The catechism indeed says that gay people are objectively disordered. This isn’t about the act, but about people attracted to those of the same sex. I think that one thing that the Church can do is revise the section on homosexuality with language that doesn’t include the term “disordered.” And I’ve unfortunately heard many of the arguments that he’s made above not by the official Church teachings, but by opponents of gay marriage. As I said in my original post, I think that opponents of gay marriage should really stick to the official Church teaching rather than creating their own theories about these things.

And the poster in question isn’t teaching moral theology. It appears that he is teaching Biblical scholarship. His sexual orientation doesn’t diminish his ability to teach about the New Testament.

No, the Catechism does not say that gay people are objectively disordered. The Catechism says that the inclination towards homosexual acts is objectively disordered, which is a huge difference. Note, only the attraction to gay sex, not to someone of the same sex is objectively disordered. To love someone of the same sex chastely is not only not wrong, but in deed good.

What is the place in the Church for married persons?

What is the place in the Church for single people?

I am of aware of no respect in which one is a less welcome or less worthy member than the other. The specific prayers you mention might leave some singles feeling the way you suggest. But I was single for far longer than married, and the thought never occurred to me. I can imagine some may see it the way you suggest. I note that most prayers in the liturgy and generally are quite universal.

Protestantism has so thoroughly permeated American Catholic society that people are expected to marry if they are not joining the Church as sisters, brothers, priests, etc. to do neither is viewed as something to be pitied or something aberrant.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

The label of ‘gay’ is entirely unhelpful. People are attracted to and tempted by all sorts of things; it shouldn’t define you as a person. One can hardly be considered ‘gay’ if one doesn’t act upon their impulses, and yet even celibate people choose to identify as such. It strikes me as a mistaken way of thinking. The devil tempts us with all sorts of things; don’t let your personal temptations define you. Do married men call themselves adulterers, despite not giving into temptations to cheat? Of course not.

Sodomy and various forms of masturbation are inherently sinful and disordered; SSA is just something the devil can use to drag one into sin, just as all kinds of libido can be a problem if not checked.

It is the fault of society as a whole that we take marriage so lightly; far removed from its place as a vocation to holy life. Celibacy, too, has gained a poor reputation, despite it being the way of life of Christ Himself, and the Holy Family.

Celibate people can identify as gay because being gay isn’t necessarily about sex.

You mean other than my daughter? My Nephew? My clients?

Many sinners don’t believe their behavior is a sin-that’s the problem. But only with homosexuality do we see people telling us that this sin above all other sins must be treated differently?

Homosexuality should be treated differently from all other sins because homosexuality per se is not a sin; gay sex is a sin, but not the state of being attracted to the same sex.

(2) There are some heterosexual people who very much want to marry and have physical intimacy with a member of the opposite sex, but for whatever reason they cannot find a suitable partner. In some cases, a person goes through his or her whole life without ever finding someone to marry. Do you see these people as being forced into life-long celibacy? Are you concerned that they too will suffer a shattered sense of self, because marriage and intimacy have been denied to them, through no choice of theirs?

Celibacy≠singleness. Celibacy is a renunciation of marriage, singleness is merely the state of being single.

 

[PaulGH]

Celibacy≠singleness. Celibacy is a renunciation of marriage, singleness is merely the state of being single.

I was trying to use the word celibacy in the same sense as the person I was responding to, who I took to mean celibacy = abstaining from sex. I agree that strictly speaking, a Catholic definition of celibacy may be more precise than that.

 

[theCrow]

Homosexuality should be treated differently from all other sins because homosexuality per se is not a sin; gay sex is a sin, but not the state of being attracted to the same sex.

Ah, so kind of like if your son or daughter is a pilot, that’s not a sin, but the moment they fly an airplane it becomes a sin. shaking my head

Seriously, more people should talk to and ask their gay friends/family members what they think. They don’t believe it is a sin, and we should respect their right to live their life and fly any planes they wish.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Homosexuality should be treated differently from all other sins because homosexuality per se is not a sin; gay sex is a sin, but not the state of being attracted to the same sex.

Ah, so kind of like if your son or daughter is a pilot, that’s not a sin, but the moment they fly an airplane it becomes a sin. shaking my head

Seriously, more people should talk to and ask their gay friends/family members what they think. They don’t believe it is a sin, and we should respect their right to live their life and fly any planes they wish.

That’s a bad analogy, to become a pilot you need to do a lot of flying. Also it is perfectly okay for them to have a deep and intimate relationship with someone of the same sex, just no engaging in sex.

 

[Rau]

I guess I’m not asking you to “re-write the rules because it is hard”. Yes, of course we ALL struggle with the Biblical call to chastity at some point, but that is not the same as forced life long celibacy. From my life experience, it seems like forcing someone to life long celibacy is having consequences of a shattered sense of self that really has little to do not getting physical pleasure from sex. It does make me question…

I liked your closing paragraph. My take away is I do not believe we should force others to follow our beliefs (by legally opposing same gender marriage.)

I believe your compassion is overriding your thinking. If you feel two men engaging in sex acts is proper, a proper use of their bodies, their reproductive capacity, please test your “mind” and explain why it is so. Please also explain how the non-availability of same sex marriage forces celibacy on anyone.

 

[PaulGH]

Ah, so kind of like if your son or daughter is a pilot, that’s not a sin, but the moment they fly an airplane it becomes a sin. shaking my head

I think it’s more like this: If I am attracted to a woman other than my wife, that is not a sin. But if I become physically involved with this woman, or intentionally fantasize about doing so, then that is a sin (and a very serious one, by the way).

 

[Christianus_Dei]

Homosexuality should be treated differently from all other sins because homosexuality per se is not a sin; gay sex is a sin, but not the state of being attracted to the same sex.

Ah, so kind of like if your son or daughter is a pilot, that’s not a sin, but the moment they fly an airplane it becomes a sin. shaking my head

You don’t understand. The Church doesn’t recognize the gay/straight dichotomy as real, the only thing that does is popular culture. It’s a fallacy to base an identity on your attractions. All it is is a feeling. I have Homosexual inclinations. Strong ones. That doesn’t make me one thing or another.

I have strong homosexual inclinations.
I am not a homosexual.

 

[Basillia]

No one is gay.
Same sex attraction is merely a disorder, just like being sexually attracted to children is. It’s a cross, yes, but not a impossible one to carry. God never tempts us beyond our strengths.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

Thus, people with same-sex attractions are called to chastity, just like everyone else.
People who are afflicted with same-sex attraction can marry, but they must marry someone of the opposite sex, because homosexual “unions” are not marriages, and because chastity means either being faithfully married or being celibate (whatever you are called to be.)
The Catholic Church knows that marriage is only one thing—a union between a man and a woman. There simply cannot be a marriage of two people of the same sex because a marriage, by definition, is the union of a man and a woman. (For explanations of this, read up on the Church’s definition and teaching on marriage, on what it actually is)
People who have tendencies to be attracted to the same sex are called to chastity just like everyone else. So they are either called to marriage, or celibacy.
People with same-sex attraction cannot (without sin) act upon their homosexual inclinations, whatever those inclinations might lead them to do. Thus, they cannot “marry” someone of the same sex.

Explanation of why masturbation is wrong: beginningcatholic.com/catholic-teaching-on-masturbation.html

I don’t see how having a problem with same-sex attraction bans you from adopting kids, but why not just get married and have your own?

 

[SuperLuigi]

=BlueEyedLady;12276564]The fact is that the Catholic Church doesn’t really have a place for homosexuals except to suffer alone and silently.

That is absolutely untrue.

couragerc.org/