Parents sterilise intellectually challenged daughters

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oldcelt said:
In the other cases…if a person is unable to earn a living, balance a checkbook, pay bills, etc.,they should not be reproducing IMO because they can’t possibly teach skills that they cannot master themselves.To me it is only common sense.
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Oh dear, that criteria covers at least 20 people I know, some of them are my friends and some of them are family members, many have children. 😉
 
KrazyKat said:
Because some people are “slow” does not mean that they cannot parent. Look around and tell me how many great parents do you see ? Many “smart” parents cannot raise good children, because of their lack of parenting skills.
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I’m not certain that you read the article thoroughly. If you did, and you still feel this way, then I’m kind of at a loss for words.
 
Sneaux said:
This isn’t “slow” as in “stupid” or “smart” this is she can’t handle it! If she can’t handle her period without cutting herself after four years…what makes you think she can handle pregnancy? If she can’t take care of herself or keep herself clean, how is she going to be able to take care of another human being and keep it clean?
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I got the impression that the woman would not even be able to consent to sex or understand something like procreation in terms of what it would mean for her physically and emotionally. I don’t think some people here are understanding how severe this case seems to be. It’s a question of making this woman’s life as comfortable as possible given her circumstances, not as normal as possible, which is simply not going to happen.

Here is a quote from the article: [The mother] says her daughter cannot consent to the procedure as she does not even “understand when to have a shower.”
 
Et_Cetera said:
I got the impression that the woman would not even be able to consent to sex or understand something like procreation in terms of what it would mean for her physically and emotionally. I don’t think some people here are understanding how severe this case seems to be. It’s a question of making this woman’s life as comfortable as possible given her circumstances, not as normal as possible, which is simply not going to happen.

Here is a quote from the article: [The mother] says her daughter cannot consent to the procedure as she does not even “understand when to have a shower.”
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I was thinking that she probably can’t even really be in a romantic relationship if it’s as bad as it seems. I just think it’s best for her, and I don’t think she should be a mother. :confused: I hate to say it, but I think they made the right choice.
 
Sneaux said:
I was thinking that she probably can’t even really be in a romantic relationship if it’s as bad as it seems. I just think it’s best for her, and I don’t think she should be a mother. :confused: I hate to say it, but I think they made the right choice.
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Why do you hate to say it? I think they made a loving decision.
 
KrazyKat said:
After taking the time to read this story I cannot judge the parents decision. This was not a random decision . Their daughter was unable to understand the monthly bleeding and would actually cut herself which is a symptom of great distress. My heart goes out to these parents and I pray for them to have peace.

But there should be a law where each case is looked at on its own merit.
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THP said:
Again, she was not “sterilized” to prevent pregnancy. She had a hysterectomy for medical indications.
She was cutting herself every month
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Where does it say she was cutting herself?
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Darryl1958 said:
There is no moral reason that a woman with those kind of disabilities should ever enter into motherhood. It would be cruel to her, and to her children.
She does not have the ability to make that decision, so the only way that that would happen would be if someone imposed it upon her.
Now nobody will be able to do that to her either.
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Nobody will be able to do what to her?
 
Bruised_Reed said:
Where does it say she was cutting herself?
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From the article:

Eliza becomes so distressed she often mutilates to try to stop the blood flow or finds herself in embarrassing situations after removing a menstrual pad in public.

I suppose I equated mutilate with cutting, maybe that was a reach. Either way it is irrelevant. There are a lot of very disabled people whose menstrual cycles create severe problems.
 
THP said:
From the article:

Eliza becomes so distressed she often mutilates to try to stop the blood flow or finds herself in embarrassing situations after removing a menstrual pad in public.

I suppose I equated mutilate with cutting, maybe that was a reach. Either way it is irrelevant. There are a lot of very disabled people whose menstrual cycles create severe problems.
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Okay. I couldn’t find the word cut in the article so I couldn’t make sense of the comments.

Using the word might be a reach; the word “mutilates” either sanitizes what the girl does to herself or is melodramatic. I wonder if it’s intended to mislead. I thought the whole article was about as clear as mud either way.
 
Sneaux said:
This isn’t “slow” as in “stupid” or “smart” this is she can’t handle it! If she can’t handle her period without cutting herself after four years…what makes you think she can handle pregnancy? If she can’t take care of herself or keep herself clean, how is she going to be able to take care of another human being and keep it clean?
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Please note that I already posted, much earlier, that the parents made the right choice.
 
Bruised_Reed said:
.

Using the word might be a reach; the word “mutilates” either sanitizes what the girl does to herself or is melodramatic. I wonder if it’s intended to mislead. I thought the whole article was about as clear as mud either way.
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Agreed, especially the way it uses the word sterilized rather than hysterectomy.
 
There’s some confusion over the language used in the article.

In a hysterectomy, they remove the uterus (and sometimes the ovaries too).

With sterilisation, they tie or cut the fallopian tubes, which are the tubes that the eggs travel from the ovary to the uterus. This simply stops the eggs from reaching the uterus. (Although, occasionally pregnancy does occur even after a sterilisation procedure.)

The hysterectomy cannot be reversed. They are actually removing organs from your body. Once they’re gone, they’re gone.

With sterilisation, they can sometimes reverse the procedure. Sometimes it works just fine, and other times it doesn’t. But it is possible.
 
Darryl1958 said:
I didn;t think it needed to be spelled out.

Rape her and get her pregnant to boot.

It can happen in institutions, if she happens to outlive the parents who love her.
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Darryl1958 said:
There is no moral reason that a woman with those kind of disabilities should ever enter into motherhood. It would be cruel to her, and to her children.
She does not have the ability to make that decision, so the only way that that would happen would be if someone imposed it upon her.
Now nobody will be able to do that to her either.
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She can still be raped. Being sterilized in any way will not protect her. If there is that much of a concern about her becoming pregnant due to rape then there needs to be more vigilance in protecting her from any kind of assault.

ETA: General comment:
She should also be protected from any “consensual” sex she might have. It doesn’t sound like she has the ability to truly consent. Many people seem to think that having sex is a “right” but if a person cannot handle the possible result (pregnancy and raising a child), does that person have the ability to consent to any kind of sexual activity? As Catholics we acknowledge that something else happens during sexual activity: bonding. How is are people who have certain kinds of mental illness or developmental delays supposed to handle those emotions? I don’t think many people consider that or forget. And they are forgetting if they are not vigilant enough that sterilization or contraception is used. I mean, if she can’t get pregnant or the baby can be aborted, no problem, right?
 
Bruised_Reed said:
She can still be raped. Being sterilized in any way will not protect her. If there is that much of a concern about her becoming pregnant due to rape then there needs to be more vigilance in protecting her from any kind of assault.
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The take away point from this conversation is the fact that a hysterectomy will render her infertile is moot because she could never consent to intercourse anyway, therefore there is no moral quandary.
 
THP said:
The take away point from this conversation is the fact that a hysterectomy will render her infertile is moot because she could never consent to intercourse anyway, therefore there is no moral quandary.
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Is fertility the point of thread or article?

I didn’t say it before but I will now: this thread is as clear as mud. I’m out.
 
Bruised_Reed said:
Is fertility the point of thread or article?

I didn’t say it before but I will now: this thread is as clear as mud. I’m out.
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The whole point of the article is whether or not you can remove someone’s fertility without their consent, but its pretty much a disaster after that.
 
I never saw it as a fertility problem…I saw it has she can’t handle having a period, so they made it to where she can’t have one to help her…
 
Darryl1958 said:
Bruised Reed;10989508:
It will not protect her from rape of course. That goes without saying.
It protects her from pregnancy and motherhood, which she does not have the faculties to be engaged in, any more than she has the faculties to engage in consensual sex.

A five year old girl cannot engage in consensual sex. A girl with the capacity of a three year old cannot engage in consensual sex either, at whatever age.
Ergo, any sex that this girl engages in is a rape.
Rape is the only possible way for her to get pregnant.

Abortion is always a problem for a Catholic. There are reasonable solutions that will prevent this from happening.
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Yer preachin’ to the choir, dude. And your sarcasm detector needs tuning.
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