Parish music team management questions

[Guitar]

These questions are partly for interest and partly for background research. Please note I am not seeking advice on how to deal with problems myself or within my parish and not interested in cross-critique of posters’ responses (unless it is to offer practical and constructive suggestions). This post is simply a survey of how others deal with the matters laid out below.

For those involved in parish church music teams made up **solely of volunteer amateurs **(no paid or professional musicians):

• What is the “management structure” of your music team? How does it “tick”?
• Are your team structure and procedures formalised in documents and/or approved by a parish priest, parish council or liturgy group of some kind?
• If you have documents, what do they cover (i.e. introductory handout to interested volunteers, rules for music selection, team organisation chart, basic reference materials such as the GIRM, parish wedding and funeral policies, etc.)?
• Does your team “report” to a nominated team leader, to a priest, to the parish council, to a liturgy committee? Who are they accountable to?
• If you have a nominated team leader, what is that person’s role and title? Do they function as a music director, or as a coordinator with “direction” and appraisal of team member performance coming from elsewhere?
• If you have a nominated team leader, how is that person selected and appointed?
• Do you audition or otherwise “vet” your volunteers? If so, how do you do this? Interviews with the PP and/or music team leader? Practical demonstration of musical ability? Both? Background checks of any sort?
• Do you conduct regular individual “performance appraisals”? If so, who does it and how do you go about it?
• How do you handle matters of “correction” or “discipline”? How are such matters reported, discussed and dealt with? Who is responsible for speaking to the individual concerned? (Some examples might be where a team member’s technical standards degenerate to an unacceptable degree, or where a musician develops a style that the congregation consistently finds a distraction.)
• Have you ever removed someone from the team or declined to accept someone at the audition/vetting stage? If so, how was it done, by whom and on what grounds?
• Have any problems arisen that have led you to change your reporting structure or team procedures? What were the problems and how did you deal with them?
• Do you encourage (or make mandatory) ongoing study/development/training (e.g. workshop attendance, private tuition, required reading) and how do you go about proposing it to team members and following up that it has been undertaken?

Thanks in advance.

 

[pnewton]

I will enjoy this. My parish is medium size - 1000+ families. Our musical talent, however is sparse and virtually non-existent. We have had in the past a paid organist or pianist, but they never stayed for long. The last one played for several years and was great. However, she also had too many irons in the fire and commuted and hour to help. After too many no shows, my priest said it was time to let her go. I volunteered to inform her so he didn’t have to mess with it, and I know how to do this sort of thing from my work. I was gracious and let her know her contribution had been appreciated, but that it was clear she was too busy to be of service.

Our structure is simple. My priest is the lone liturgy commitee and when any issue arises the two of us talk about it. I give my opinion and then do what the priest wants. I pass on the info to the other musician. My only other duty is maintaining the schedule.

In reference to people wanting to join in the music ministry, I am always open because of our shortage. I have an informal system of tryout. I will schedule someone to play with me at first or I will let them play one song for a meditation. If the person shows themself to be faithful, dependable and good in the small ways, I will expand the the scheduling. This has come in handy especially when dealing with teenage musicians. Most that express interest (or whose parent does) never show or want to play after a time or two. If they do, I am open to anything.

For example, we have a sax player that started playing at a Mass here and there with a guitarist. He now has played by himself, and plays with me at one Mass all the time. He is exceptional talented and very dependable. Therefore he has become a good asset. On the other hand, there was a guitarist who I met with to practice, then never showed up to play. He has not expressed any more interest, so his level of talent is irrelevant.

 

[Guitar]

Thanks, pnewton!

(I haven’t forgotten about that “Ave Maria” transcription, by the way … it’s on my to-do list. Honest! )

Actually, having said “no paid or professional musicians”, a parish where some music is paid for but where the team is mostly amateur and the direction/management is not done by a “credentialled” musician (as in your parish when you had your paid pianist) would still be within my area of interest.

 

[pnewton]

Thanks, pnewton!

(I haven’t forgotten about that “Ave Maria” transcription, by the way … it’s on my to-do list. Honest! )

Actually, having said “no paid or professional musicians”, a parish where some music is paid for but where the team is mostly amateur and the direction/management is not done by a “credentialled” musician (as in your parish when you had your paid pianist) would still be within my area of interest.

Believe me, my music credentials are slim. I did lead the music in a Baptist Church years ago, but that was only because it went with the Youth Director job.

 

[Guitar]

Believe me, my music credentials are slim. I did lead the music in a Baptist Church years ago, but that was only because it went with the Youth Director job.

How about “formally credentialled”, then? (And by the way I’m sure many of us know professional musicians who are useless or dangerous or both and musicians without a qualification to their name who are worth their weight in gold. And vice versa. So I mean nothing either way by this criterion - I’m just interested in how things are handled when no professional status is involved.)

 

[pnewton]

How about “formally credentialled”, then?

My education is in theology and my job in law enforcement. Not very musical. My guitar and piano are both self taught. I did watch American Idol once, though.

 

[puzzleannie]

we have amateurs for each Mass
guitar and friends for 5 pm, gather hymns and typical 80s schlock, this group loves Peace is Flowing like a River aaaaagh
nobody for 7:30 am my favorite
cantor and organist (married couple) for 9:00, and whoever shows up and sits in those pews sings standard songs from the hymnal
10:30 Spanish, they only choir who actually practice, most are over retirement age, but fun to listen to you had better not sit in their pews, tho
12 so-called youth Mass, guitars again, Gather, any teen that shows up can sing. they actually are the best choir by the way, and have learned the latin sung prayers, chant tones for responsorial etc.

the 9 cantor is supposed to be the leader, but when they try to meet, like to plan Christmas or holy days, so few show up it is worthless, father decides and tells everybody what to do, and even those not scheduled show up to sing and play. they all know which hymns Father does not allow (anything where God is speaking in first person for instance) and after that choose their own hymns about 5 min before Mass begins

 

[Guitar]

Thanks, Annie.

So if I understand aright, one of the cantors is a nominal team leader and tries to do some planning but doesn’t get a lot of support, and the priest asserts some direction but mainly in the form of prohibitions and pronouncements rather than “positive” formation or training? (Not implying any judgements either way, just checking.)

 

[Sarabande]

Hi Guitar - I don’t know if this will help. I’ll give you a couple of examples.

1. One extreme:
   There is a little country church (there might be between 10-13 pews on each side) - mostly farming community that I’ve attended since a baby to now near our family vacation home. I spent half my childhood there, so I know the parish pretty well. They did not have any professional, “credentialed” musicians. For years, a local bachelor farmer played the little organ in the loft. The hymns were all pretty much “traditional”, no difficult rhythms and can be simple to play for someone with not much training on piano or organ or guitar. The congregation really sang their hearts out.

When the farmer “retired” from playing the organ on Sundays, they had a difficult time finding someone else to play. Eventually, they got a man who I believe joined that parish and he played for a few years. He wasn’t as good as the farmer, but he was able to play some kind of accompaniment.

I think that if you can get someone or a group of individuals who know how to play solidly and support congregational singing, that person can do a good job helping the congregation out with the music. It worked very well at this parish.

1. To the Other Extreme: Where I am currently employed as a cantor, we have one of the most talented organists in the city. BUT we have a choir that is all volunteer - no professionals at all. A few have musical training or currently training and can read music. The rest are all amateurs. When I was in college right until I got married, I sang in the choir. The director did audition the singers. It was pretty simple. He needed to know if a person can actually sing in tune. He also tested their sight-reading skills. He had me sight-read a very simple Purcell piece. Even though I can read music, I’m not the greatest at sight-singing, but this was very simple. I do know that he would play the melody line for a person if he/she was having trouble.

A couple years back, our director had to “clean house”. There were some trouble makers, some people who just couldn’t sing and were really miserable and a couple of mentally unstable people in the choir. It was breaking the morale of the choir and underminding what the director was working towards for this volunteer choir. It was hard to do, but had to be done. The mentally unstable members took advantage and walked all over the director because he was being too nice. Transitions are sometimes very hard, but once the transition was completed, the choir totally changed for the better. It is much more positive. The members are singing better and sounding better and they are making more inroads with the repertoire.

 

[Guitar]

Thanks, Sarabande!

Yep, a musician of limited ability but appropriate outlook is often able to build up good, confident congregational singing.

In the second case, it sounds as though the organist is responsible for discipline, musical direction and formation/training, and handles it in whatever way he judges best - is that right?

Where you have a paid musician (whether full-time pro or not), it seems reasonable that they deal with this sort of thing as part of the job. Where a musician is not paid and/or not a music professional, they might perform the same role or might be more of a planner/coordinator with some of the “people management” performed by the PP or say a committee further up in the parish structure, so to speak. One thing I’m interested to find out, in the course of this thread, is whether anyone has experiences of either situation and how well it works. In the case you mention, for example, where there are mentally unstable people involved, one wonders whether it is fair to expect an unpaid volunteer to deal with that sort of situation when it arises. Maybe … maybe not.

 

[Sarabande]

Thanks, Sarabande!

You’re very welcome!!!

In the second case, it sounds as though the organist is responsible for discipline, musical direction and formation/training, and handles it in whatever way he judges best - is that right?

Yes, you are correct. He is on salary there for the parish and the diocese, so he is responsible for all of that. Although, it definitely helps when you have the pastor backing you up.

…One thing I’m interested to find out, in the course of this thread, is whether anyone has experiences of either situation and how well it works. In the case you mention, for example, where there are mentally unstable people involved, one wonders whether it is fair to expect an unpaid volunteer to deal with that sort of situation when it arises. Maybe … maybe not.

Hmmm… I think it depends on the person in charge. In one respect it doesn’t seem fair, as you said, to dump that kind of problem into the lap of an unpaid volunteer. I know how emotionally taxing it was to our director during that time. Some people, though, do not mind handling these kind of situations at all. I know a couple who actually “thrives” on this - not in a parish setting, but similar volunteer-like organizations. They do a great job with it.

If this unpaid volunteer is not one of those kinds of people, I think it would be important to have the pastor or another “superior” who can handle situations such as mentally unstable people.

For other situations, I have a positive enough outlook that most adults know how to rectify problematic events without going haywire. That’s not to say there will always be those one or two troublemakers or powermongers who need their actions and egos quelled after some painful and emotional incident.

On the other hand, sometimes in an all-volunteer team when one person becomes the leader, that leader may not always get the respect that is needed to get the work done. It may have to do with the personality dynamic within the group.

 

[Guitar]

On the other hand, sometimes in an all-volunteer team when one person becomes the leader, that leader may not always get the respect that is needed to get the work done. It may have to do with the personality dynamic within the group.

Quite so. A well-defined structure where that leader has been formally appointed, with the pastor looking interested in what’s happening, could go some way towards making that situtation more workable but as with so much in outer suburban Volunteeria it does often come down to personalities. Heck, it’s the same in many workplaces. All part of the reason I’m interested in everyone’s experiences in this area.

 

[Sarabande]

Quite so. A well-defined structure where that leader has been formally appointed, with the pastor looking interested in what’s happening, could go some way towards making that situtation more workable but as with so much in outer suburban Volunteeria it does often come down to personalities. Heck, it’s the same in many workplaces. All part of the reason I’m interested in everyone’s experiences in this area.

You know, all this thinking and I totally forgot my experience as a volunteer liturgical minister in college. It’s not quite like a parish experience, but similar. During my college career, with the exception of my senior year, I was heavily involved in our university Newman Center. My sophomore year I became the appointed liturgical minister because the previous one graduated and no one else stepped up to the plate. I was extremely “green” - no real experience. I only did what was given to me up to then.

The last minister liked to choose everything on his own and then just tell us what to do. For me, with the help of the sister at the Newman Center, I got a couple other music majors with me and together we did the planning. At the same time, we also learned a bit about liturgy, etc. When I look back, some of the things we did and chose, I’d be cringing now. I was very new and igorant at that time and sometimes you have to make mistakes to really learn and grow.

In addition to this, we also had an elected “Core Group” which consisted of a President, Secretary, Treasurer and I think a Vice-President. (I can’t believe I don’t remember this anymore!!! It was only a few years ago.) I was the Secretary for two years and my husband, then friend (not even a boyfriend yet) was the Treasurer. I never liked being totally in control and having the main chunk of responsibility, but my one friend who was the President of the core group was very good at doing that. I was very happy with just being “Secretary”. With assistance from our priest and the sister, we also ran student interfaith dialogues in conjunction with other student religious organizations, as well as other socials and charity/volunteer activities within the community with the help of our campus police. We were in a very poor and sometimes dangerous part of the city and sometimes needed police escort service from the campus to certain areas.

Perhaps because we were all in our teens and early 20s not much contention or problems occurred (it seemed like most of us were pretty laid-back in terms of who had “control”), but the “personality dynamic” worked well in our case.

 

[Guitar]

In one respect it doesn’t seem fair, as you said, to dump that kind of problem into the lap of an unpaid volunteer. I know how emotionally taxing it was to our director during that time. Some people, though, do not mind handling these kind of situations at all. I know a couple who actually “thrives” on this - not in a parish setting, but similar volunteer-like organizations. They do a great job with it.

If this unpaid volunteer is not one of those kinds of people, I think it would be important to have the pastor or another “superior” who can handle situations such as mentally unstable people.

Pnewton seems better equipped than many volunteers to handle such situtations on the basis of his line of work, and as he posted earlier he offered to take that load off his priest for that reason. So there’s one “it depends on the individual” case. I can just imagine, though, some volunteers with musical skills being willing to deal with the musical bits but feeling if they don’t get a say in hiring they shouldn’t be expected to fire, and really needing backup from superiors.

 

[pnewton]

I have not only been in law enforcement for a while, but the last 15 years has been in supervision. It does make it easier. The priest makes the decision on all personnel. We are blessed to be liturgy committee free, so things are simple. The only way to graciously let someone go is if you have established a relationship with the person and you both truly want what is best for the parish.

I have one more piece of advice that I have only recently taken. Get a copy of Cardinal Ratzinger’s “Spirit of the Liturgy”. It will give a solid foundation for making informed decisions. Also, as you participate at Mass, get feedback from the congregation. This need not be anything formal although I did a survey once. Just watch the faces and see if people sing, yawn or throw up.

 

[Phemie]

For those involved in parish church music teams made up **solely of volunteer amateurs **(no paid or professional musicians):

I’m not formally involved in parish music but I deal with the choir a fair bit and the de facto leader comes to me with questions.

• What is the “management structure” of your music team? How does it “tick”?

A woman who can sing & read music took it upon herself to gather people together to form a choir. They defer to her & to the sister who plays guitar.

• Are your team structure and procedures formalised in documents and/or approved by a parish priest, parish council or liturgy group of some kind?

No.

• If you have documents, what do they cover (i.e. introductory handout to interested volunteers, rules for music selection, team organisation chart, basic reference materials such as the GIRM, parish wedding and funeral policies, etc.)?

The only ‘document’ we have is the binder the choir leader put together of the music that is available for funerals.
I gave them copies of Musicam Sacram & a few articles on music. Don’t know if the ever read them.

When it comes to weddings, the couple has free rein when it comes to music. They choose whomever & whatever they want. I’ve heard CDs featuring Dolly Parton, Shania Twain & worse and our pastor couldn’t care less. Not surprising, he has the wedding party sitting in the sanctuary, in front of & backs to the altar so the picture taking is easier. From where they sit, I don’t think any of them can even see the ambo.

Funerals are not quite as bad, if we can convince the families to have them at a time that the choir is available. But I’ve heard doozies at funerals at other times: a song on suicide when we were burying a young suicide victim, & again, Dolly Parton at the last one. It has occasionally fallen upon me as parish secretary to help a family plan the funeral. The binder from the choir is invaluable but I know that if the choir isn’t available and I tell them that something they want is not appropriate for Church and they go to the priest he’ll tell them to do what they want.

• Does your team “report” to a nominated team leader, to a priest, to the parish council, to a liturgy committee?

No. Even when we had a liturgy committee (another long story) they didn’t send a rep to the meetings.

• Who are they accountable to?

Nobody.

• If you have a nominated team leader, what is that person’s role and title? Do they function as a music director, or as a coordinator with “direction” and appraisal of team member performance coming from elsewhere?

The choir leader gets her ‘approval’ when Fr. decides to ask for applause.

• If you have a nominated team leader, how is that person selected and appointed?

Not nominated or appointed.

• Do you audition or otherwise “vet” your volunteers? If so, how do you do this? Interviews with the PP and/or music team leader? Practical demonstration of musical ability? Both? Background checks of any sort?

Anyone who wants to join the choir does. Last year, my non-Catholic husband happened to be at church with me helping with Christmas decorating. He heard the choir rehearse and wandered over, sang a song with them and was drafted for the Midnight and Day Masses. The asked him to sing with them for the Triduum and again this Christmas.

• Do you conduct regular individual “performance appraisals”? If so, who does it and how do you go about it?

No

• How do you handle matters of “correction” or “discipline”? How are such matters reported, discussed and dealt with? Who is responsible for speaking to the individual concerned? (Some examples might be where a team member’s technical standards degenerate to an unacceptable degree, or where a musician develops a style that the congregation consistently finds a distraction.)

Nothing is done. “Technical standards”? Most don’t read music. The organist is a very good classical guitarist but is the first to admit that he does this only because no one else does. He has no training in organ.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Phemie]

For those involved in parish church music teams made up **solely of volunteer amateurs **(no paid or professional musicians):

• Have you ever removed someone from the team or declined to accept someone at the audition/vetting stage? If so, how was it done, by whom and on what grounds?

No.

• Have any problems arisen that have led you to change your reporting structure or team procedures? What were the problems and how did you deal with them?

N/A

• Do you encourage (or make mandatory) ongoing study/development/training (e.g. workshop attendance, private tuition, required reading) and how do you go about proposing it to team members and following up that it has been undertaken?

As it had already done for several of us involved in liturgy and catechetics, the parish has offered to send the leader and a few members to courses in Liturgy &/or music during the summer – an opportunity to fly to another province & go to school all-expenses-paid. In spite of hearing those of us who’d already done so rave about the experience – and in spite of an opportunity to shop til you drop after school hours (something those of us in this remote area would usually die for) not one member agreed to go. It’s kind of a “we’re volunteers, take what you get” attitude.

 

[Guitar]

“we’re volunteers, take what you get”

Phemie - thanks for your detailed reply.

Hmmm. I understand this up to a point. I have asked my parish to back off the pressure a few times but it’s been when asked to do more than I have time to manage properly rather than to “get my act together”. If my parish wanted more time, greater technical proficiency or a lot of study on my part, they’d have to pay some of my bills so I could work less. We’re not a household where music gets only the time leftover from other things, it’s more the other way round, though I understand that other volunteers I know can’t live that way.

But there are volunteers who will trot out a retort in similar wording at any faint hint that some improvement or effort is required. (“But it’s not a performance” is the one I could do without hearing ever again.)

It seems sad and circularly illogical that a parish would offer funded training to help people, in recognition that amateur volunteers can’t necessarily be expected to have the requisite skills, then those same people knock it back by saying “we’re volunteers, take what you get”.

 

[VAC]

*]What is the “management structure” of your music team? How does it “tick”? All volunteer choir. one leader each for 2 masses, and a ‘choir coordinator’ who leads the other 2 masses in the abscence of some able to lead the second

*]Are your team structure and procedures formalised in documents and/or approved by a parish priest, parish council or liturgy group of some kind?We are told we have to submit our music selections to the ‘choir coordinator’ for her to approve, and run by Father. That’s as formal as it gets. Otherwise, it depends on whose in charge and what mood they’re in.I’ve only had one song rejected because the wording was ‘too strong’ for a children’s mass. Don’t know about the others. I think there are committees, but they are not very involved in the music that I’m aware of. I think we’re on a back burner, as this is a parish awaiting a building.

*]If you have documents, what do they cover (i.e. introductory handout to interested volunteers, rules for music selection, team organisation chart, basic reference materials such as the GIRM, parish wedding and funeral policies, etc.)?Of course not, that would be organized and make things easy No, I do a lot of self study and research.

*]Does your team “report” to a nominated team leader, to a priest, to the parish council, to a liturgy committee? Who are they accountable to?The Choir coordinator and our priest.

*]If you have a nominated team leader, what is that person’s role and title? Do they function as a music director, or as a coordinator with “direction” and appraisal of team member performance coming from elsewhere?Choir coordinator. Her role is to make sure all the ‘extra masses’ are covered, and her husband is in control of our sound equip.

*]If you have a nominated team leader, how is that person selected and appointed?She was chosen becasue the director of ministries knew her from childhood, She’d been to several OCP workshops, had been involved in music ministry for longer than the rest of us, and she is bilingual, and could review the Spanish songs as well.

*]Do you audition or otherwise “vet” your volunteers? If so, how do you do this? Interviews with the PP and/or music team leader? Practical demonstration of musical ability? Both? Background checks of any sort?We announce when practice is, and if someone shows up we hand them a songsheet. If something clashes I try to tactfully work it out.

*]Do you conduct regular individual “performance appraisals”? If so, who does it and how do you go about it?No. If no one throws rotten eggs or makes negative comments, it’s business as usual

*]How do you handle matters of “correction” or “discipline”? How are such matters reported, discussed and dealt with? Who is responsible for speaking to the individual concerned? (Some examples might be where a team member’s technical standards degenerate to an unacceptable degree, or where a musician develops a style that the congregation consistently finds a distraction.)The problem solving and conflict resolution skills are practically non-exixtent. I almost quit over it. I have to turn it over to the Holy Spirit and be as assertive and polite as possible

*]Have you ever removed someone from the team or declined to accept someone at the audition/vetting stage? If so, how was it done, by whom and on what grounds?I had a pianist having mental outbursts before mass and showing signs of mental illness. I was told it had to be HER decision to leave, I could not ask her to leave. Over the years, she’s gotten much better.

*]Have any problems arisen that have led you to change your reporting structure or team procedures? What were the problems and how did you deal with them?Many difficulties led to the desigination of the ‘choir coordinator’ we had no acting priest at the time, so this is the advice the director of ministries got from the bishop

*]Do you encourage (or make mandatory) ongoing study/development/training (e.g. workshop attendance, private tuition, required reading) and how do you go about proposing it to team members and following up that it has been undertaken?

I’m told I"m not allowed to demand attendance at practice until we have a permanent building.We did invite people from all choirs to a seminar put on by one of the big publishers.
Thanks in advance.

 

[Sarabande]

When it comes to weddings, the couple has free rein when it comes to music. They choose whomever & whatever they want. I’ve heard CDs featuring Dolly Parton, Shania Twain & worse and our pastor couldn’t care less.

Yikes! I can’t believe that! I don’t know why couples can’t just save one hour of their wedding day for just the sacred. We’d be in deep doo doo if anything like that was played during a nuptial mass. I’m sorry that your pastor won’t back you guys up in regards to using sacred/liturgical music. Do you think that if your music team did enact written music guidelines and brought it up to the pastor, he’d support you?