Parishes refusing to allow parents to teach Confirmation

[puzzleannie]

The Eastern rite does not even deal with such nonsence. You stated:
“I invite you parents especially who are knowledgeable enough to teach a confirmation class, to give the youth of the parish the benefit of your competence, rather than hoarding your time and talent in your own family.” Again, I invite people to educate themselves by reading the catechism, the canon law on confirmation, and pope encyclicals…

this is not the Eastern CAtholic forum and OP’s question does not address that situation, so it is not appropos, but I think I am not alone in praying heartily for a return to their practice, which predates current western application on the sacraments of initiation, for full initiation at baptism, followed by faith formation and instruction throughout the school years.

 

[CDNowak]

<<As another poster asked, what aspects do you think parents are incapable of preparing their children for?>>

But my point is there is no guarantee that the parents always know what they are talking about and hence might well convey misinformation when they try to prepare their own children for the Sacraments.

And I have heard DREs denying the sacrificial nature of the Mass, advocating for priestesses, and completely disregarding the rubrics of the Mass (not to mention the licitness of receiving on the tongue). The fact is that neither is infallible, the parents are less likely to think themselves so. If the pastor is certain that homeschoolers can prepare their children, or can take an hour or so before the reception of the sacrament to examine them, is it still unreasonable for parents to prepare their own children?

In the interest of full disclosure: I was in “CCD” for First Confession and Communion, prepared for Confirmation homeschooling, and again when I went into the Parish School (because I couldn’t be ahead of the other kids.)

 

[FrDavid96]

I think it would be good for posters here (and relevant to the original poster) to read a Responsum ad dubium from the Congregation for Divine Worship given in 1999

Although the response itself deals with a question about the age of the Confirmand, the entire response is very relevant to the topic at hand, and directly addresses some of the issues that have been raised in this thread.

adoremus.org/CDW_Confirmation_age.html

In part, the Prefect, Card. Medina writes:

In regard to Your Excellency’s second point, while it is clear that the Diocesan Policy is within the right inherent in the law in light of the complementary legislation for the Conference of Bishops to which you belong for can. 891, it is also clear that any such complementary legislation must always be interpreted in accord with the general norm of law. As has been stated before, the Code of Canon Law legislates that Sacred Ministers may not deny the Sacraments to those who opportunely ask for them, are properly disposed and are not prohibited by law from receiving them (cf. can. 843 §1). Since it has been demonstrated that the girl possesses these requisite qualities, any other considerations, even those contained in the Diocesan Policy, need to be understood in subordination to the general norms governing the reception of the Sacraments.

The Congregation considers it useful to point out that it is the role of the parents as the primary educators of their children and then of the Sacred Pastors to see that candidates for the reception of the Sacrament of Confirmation are properly instructed to receive the Sacrament and come to it at the opportune time (cf. can. 890). Consequently, when a member of the faithful wishes to receive this Sacrament, even though not satisfying one or more elements of the local legislation (e.g., being younger than the designated age for administration of the Sacrament), those elements must give way to the fundamental right of the faithful to receive the Sacraments. Indeed, the longer the conferral of the Sacrament is delayed after the age of reason, the greater will be the number of candidates who are prepared for its reception but are deprived of its grace for a considerable period of time.

 

[Montalo]

Assuming you mean, “Parents aren’t allowed to teach confirmation classes,” present Church policy require that all adults who work with minors go through the Safe Enviornment (or whatever it’s called) program. You presently can’t have random adults taking turns teaching the classes. (There was a time that parents did NOT teach classes for sacramental preparation.)

If you mean, “Parents aren’t allowed to homeschool their children for confirmation,” there’s nothing to keep the parents from discussing the confirmation class lessons and supplementing them, is there?

For the record, Protecting God’s children
my DRE asked my age to see if i needed to go through it, to be a teachers aide in CCD

 

[joandarc2008]

I don’t think anyone is denying a parent’s right to teach the sacraments - they are denying them the right to do it exclusively.**** In a perfect world the candidates would have both. But yes there are a number of rites the candidates must go through in order to be presented to the Bishop and lessons. Since the Priest is responsible for this he should have some oversight of this.

Also any questions that the candidate has about their faith should be addressed at this time before their sacrament as this is the final sacrament of their initiation sacraments. (Well actually it should be second - but only adults receive them in the correct historical order.) So yes, if the students have questions about contraception, abortion, marriage, vocations, etc they should be addressed in a responsible manner.

 

[FAB]

pot…kettle…

 

[FAB]

Parishes and confirmation instructors need to step back and realize that we are talking about a soul who simply wants to be confirmed, we are not talking about parish confirmation numbers, or who has the best program around, and mandating retreats or anything else people want to dream up in their mind, because none, and absolutley NONE of that is required by the Canon law or Catechism no matter what a parish states or even the diocese states. The diocese, by the way, can only provide “guidelines” on how preparation could be done. Guidelines are not laws, only guides or suggestions. Even the diocese cannot go against the Canon law.

An example of a true reason why parents should not teach the sacraments.

The primary call of the church is to evangelize and teach. There is a requirement in every sacrament for the individual or in the case of infant baptism, to have formation to not only understand the sacrament, the graces obtained and the faith.
The local ordinary has the primary responsibilty under canon law to teach the faith. If he sees that the need in his parish, for proper formation, to have canidates go on a retreat, or a time period of formation that is right and responsibility.
Canon law in itself is not absolute. In the very beginning it allows for adjustments to be made for pastoral reasons.

Peace,
FAB

 

[JimG]

this is not the Eastern CAtholic forum and OP’s question does not address that situation, so it is not appropos, but I think I am not alone in praying heartily for a return to their practice, which predates current western application on the sacraments of initiation, for full initiation at baptism, followed by faith formation and instruction throughout the school years.

If the Roman rite returned to the practice of fully initiating the newly baptized, including infants, into the Church by giving Confirmation and first Eucharist along with baptism, the current argument would be moot.

A few years ago, attending my homeschooled neices’ Confirmation, it was apparent to me that their sacramental preparation at home was much better than the diocesan program. They did have to attend the diocesan program; but the content was less than what they already knew.

As far as integration into the Church community, again it seemed to me that they were better prepared in this aspect than their peers.

In my own diocese, each candidate, whether homeschooled or parochial schooled or PSR instructed, must write a personal letter to the bishop requesting Confirmation and giving his or her reasons for desiring the sacrament.

 

[joandarc2008]

Jim- Your neice is very lucky to have such well catechized parents. However, not everyone is that well catechized and therein lies the problem. The Bishop of each diocese who is responsible for each confirmation must be sure that there is a baseline of knowledge and understanding that has been granted to every candidate before receiving the Sacrament.

 

[FrDavid96]

An example of a true reason why parents should not teach the sacraments.

The primary call of the church is to evangelize and teach. There is a requirement in every sacrament for the individual or in the case of infant baptism, to have formation to not only understand the sacrament, the graces obtained and the faith.
The local ordinary has the primary responsibilty under canon law to teach the faith. If he sees that the need in his parish, for proper formation, to have canidates go on a retreat, or a time period of formation that is right and responsibility.
Canon law in itself is not absolute. In the very beginning it allows for adjustments to be made for pastoral reasons.

Peace,
FAB

Actually, that’s not the case. Canon law is absolute. The bishop can only provide guidelines on how the formation is to be done for any given sacrament. He can certainly require that parishes follow these guidelines, but at the same time, he is forbidden from adding any other requirements for a Sacrament beyond what canon law itself requires.

That’s exactly why I quoted the Responsum from the (then) Congregation for Divine Worship in 1999. Please note this part of Card. Medina’s letter:

The Congregation considers it useful to point out that **it is the role of the parents as the primary educators of their children **and then of the Sacred Pastors to see that candidates for the reception of the Sacrament of Confirmation are properly instructed to receive the Sacrament and come to it at the opportune time (cf. can. 890). Consequently, when a member of the faithful wishes to receive this Sacrament, even though not satisfying one or more elements of the local legislation (e.g., being younger than the designated age for administration of the Sacrament), those elements must give way to the fundamental right of the faithful to receive the Sacraments. Indeed, the longer the conferral of the Sacrament is delayed after the age of reason, the greater will be the number of candidates who are prepared for its reception but are deprived of its grace for a considerable period of time.

The words “though not satisfying one or more elements of the local legislation” would apply to such things as a parish-sponsored retreat, as much as it would apply to the specific topic being addressed, that of the age of the candidate for Confirmation.

In that letter, the Cardinal Prefect was gently reminding the bishop (the name has been sanitized for obvious reasons) that the bishop cannot require anything beyond what canon law requires for a member of the faithful to be confirmed.

 

[puzzleannie]

none of this discussion addresses OPs situation because OP did not give all the facts: is one parent being denied the right to homeschool his own child for confirmation in his own parish, and if so, who is making the denial–the pastor, the DRE, the catechist, or the bishop. OR is there a blanket policy in a particular parish or diocese that parents serving as catechists in their own parish (or diocese) may not have their own child as a member of their class.

What is the point of discussion what horrors “some DREs” or “some catechists” or “some parents” are guilty of? Why not address OP’s particular situation if he cares to give us more background to work with?

 

[FAB]

Actually, that’s not the case. Canon law is absolute. The bishop can only provide guidelines on how the formation is to be done for any given sacrament. He can certainly require that parishes follow these guidelines, but at the same time, he is forbidden from adding any other requirements for a Sacrament beyond what canon law itself requires.

QUOTE]

With all due respect,
Can. 16 §1. The legislator authentically interprets laws as does the one to whom the same legislator has entrusted the power of authentically interpreting.

§2. An authentic interpretation put forth in the form of law has the same force as the law itself and must be promulgated. If it only declares the words of the law which are certain in themselves, it is retroactive; if it restricts or extends the law, or if it explains a doubtful law, it is not retroactive

Can. 31 §1. Those who possess executive power are able to issue, within the limits of their competence, general executory decrees, namely, those which more precisely determine the methods to be observed in applying the law or which urge the observance of laws

This sounds like a pastoral componate. The ordinary is considered to have the power to inerpret and thier interpetation is binding.

Peace,
FAB

 

[BornCatholic7]

THANK YOU FRDavid96!

 

[JimG]

FrDavid96;5791920:

Actually, that’s not the case. Canon law is absolute. The bishop can only provide guidelines on how the formation is to be done for any given sacrament. He can certainly

require that parishes follow these guidelines, but at the same time, he is forbidden from adding any other requirements for a Sacrament beyond what canon law itself requires.

QUOTE]

With all due respect,
Can. 16 §1. The legislator authentically interprets laws as does the one to whom the same legislator has entrusted the power of authentically interpreting.

§2. An authentic interpretation put forth in the form of law has the same force as the law itself and must be promulgated. If it only declares the words of the law which are certain in themselves, it is retroactive; if it restricts or extends the law, or if it explains a doubtful law, it is not retroactive

Can. 31 §1. Those who possess executive power are able to issue, within the limits of their competence, general executory decrees, namely, those which more precisely determine the methods to be observed in applying the law or which urge the observance of laws

This sounds like a pastoral componate. The ordinary is considered to have the power to inerpret and thier interpetation is binding.

Peace,
FABThe legislator can authentically interpret canon law, and so can one to whom the legislator entrusts with the power to authentically interpret.

The Congregation for Divine Worship, quoted by Fr. David, has been entrusted to authentically interpret canon law.

 

[BornCatholic7]

My voaction is in the Sacrament of Marriage, and no one, not a lay person, priest, catechist, nun, bishop, or the diocese can take away the God given authority parents have in this vocation to teach the children that God gave them.
People in the vocation of the Sacrament of Marriage cannot take over the responisibilities of a priest in his vocation of Holy Orders and start saying Mass, hearing confession, etc, Therefore what in the world makes a priest think that he can take over the responsibilities and duties that God gave to parents in their Sacrament of Marriage?
Lay people, catechists,and nuns would never dream of disrepecting a priest by taking over a priests duties, but yet these same people (and some priests) think they can disrepect the Sacrament of Marriage Vocation and demand that they take over parents duties? If they really want to do that then I’ll show them my laundry room and they can begin there!
It’s high time the parents in the Sacrament of Marriage be honored and given respect by those of you who think that we have no say or right to direct or teach our children! You have no right to step into our sacrament and start dictating things to us that go against the Catechism and Canon Law,Pope Encyclicals. As I said before, your opinions mean nothing in the eyes of the Catechism and Canon Law. Parents rights to teach sacraments cannot be denied. Parents also use material that has an Imprimatur attatched. So even if a parent did not know their faith very well, they would still be giving a good education on the sacraments.

 

[BornCatholic7]

Joan of Arc, I still disagree with sex education in a Confirmation program. That should be done in a separate class in the parish for teens if parents choose not to teach that themselves. If DRE’s want to give an opportunity for such discussion a special night should be schedualed at the church to watch videos from say Jason Evert. It should not be added into Confirmation program. Nor should anything like that or retreats be mandatory to attend in order to be confirmed.

 

[FAB]

My voaction is in the Sacrament of Marriage, and no one, not a lay person, priest, catechist, nun, bishop, or the diocese can take away the God given authority parents have in this vocation to teach the children that God gave them.
People in the vocation of the Sacrament of Marriage cannot take over the responisibilities of a priest in his vocation of Holy Orders and start saying Mass, hearing confession, etc, Therefore what in the world makes a priest think that he can take over the responsibilities and duties that God gave to parents in their Sacrament of Marriage?
Lay people, catechists,and nuns would never dream of disrepecting a priest by taking over a priests duties, but yet these same people (and some priests) think they can disrepect the Sacrament of Marriage Vocation and demand that they take over parents duties? If they really want to do that then I’ll show them my laundry room and they can begin there!
It’s high time the parents in the Sacrament of Marriage be honored and given respect by those of you who think that we have no say or right to direct or teach our children! You have no right to step into our sacrament and start dictating things to us that go against the Catechism and Canon Law,Pope Encyclicals. As I said before, your opinions mean nothing in the eyes of the Catechism and Canon Law. Parents rights to teach sacraments cannot be denied. Parents also use material that has an Imprimatur attatched. So even if a parent did not know their faith very well, they would still be giving a good education on the sacraments.

I have no argument that parents are the primary teacher, however, just because they are in a valid sacramental marriage does not mean that they are qualified to teach sacraments.
A large issue for many parishes are the un-catichized adult population. This is certainly fom a lack of proper instructions in thier formation, but it does exist. Considering the number of Catholics who cease formation after being confirmed there is little question left to why tis is the case.
Since this is a wide problem and one known by bishops and priest alike, one can then see the concern and reason why requirements have been put into place to require formal formation for the Sacrament of Confirmation. There are certainly exceptions, parents that are capable of instucting thier own children, but a couple of question arrise.
Parents that wish to do so, why are they so distrustful of the qualifations of the catichist in their parish and of the reasoned thought behind the program?
Why are they not participating in the instruction in the parish? Certainly part of the issue is unqualifed catichist, then anwer the call to ministry fullfill your baptismal promise to spread the faith and the Gospel.
Anorther question is why do you dislike the faith community that you belong to the point that you don’t want your children to associate with the members?
For those who want to promote this idea, does the pastor at least have the right to determine if the child has been properly and comletely formed? He does afterall have to attest to as much in front of the bishop or should he just trust the parent’s word?

Peace,
FAB

 

[BornCatholic7]

Puzzleannie,
You asked in your post “none of this discussion addresses OPs situation because OP did not give all the facts: is one parent being denied the right to homeschool his own child for confirmation in his own parish, and if so, who is making the denial–the pastor…”

Again, I’ve recently learned that this situation has been happening across the nation for years in parishes. This year In our diocese, there is a program that candidates from parishes have to travel all across the county to other Catholic churches for a class. Parishes do have the choice to opt out, and simply teach their candidates in their own parish instead. However, parents who teach sacraments at home were not given this option by this Confirmation committee. I don’t think the Diocese is aware of it.
My parish priest and I have recently “butted heads” on this. I asked a very direct question: “If I teach the sacrament can my child be confirmed?” (This question is very simple and direct) His reply was a “No! It has to be in the county wide program or in the parishes that said No to the county wide program” when I asked “why?” he replied because this is what the committee decided on (which he is also on the committee). That is all the explanation I have ever received. I’m not the only parent in the diocese who home educates their children and who have already started teaching the confirmation program. We are all being told that our children cannot be confirmed if we teach. This even before interviewing our children as candidates. I also tried to show him the Confirmation program I was using and he wouldn’t look at it to review it. I tried to explain that the committee cannot make such a decision but my parish priest became furous when I tried to bring up Canon law and the Catechism. Yes, furious, his face turned red and had a few choice comments for me which I don’t want to get sidetracked on. So i just walked away. I am still teaching about Confirmation and there is year before the bishop comes out to Confirm candidates.

 

[FAB]

Puzzleannie,
You asked in your post “none of this discussion addresses OPs situation because OP did not give all the facts: is one parent being denied the right to homeschool his own child for confirmation in his own parish, and if so, who is making the denial–the pastor…”

Again, I’ve recently learned that this situation has been happening across the nation for years in parishes. This year In our diocese, there is a program that candidates from parishes have to travel all across the county to other Catholic churches for a class. Parishes do have the choice to opt out, and simply teach their candidates in their own parish instead. However, parents who teach sacraments at home were not given this option by this Confirmation committee. I don’t think the Diocese is aware of it.
My parish priest and I have recently “butted heads” on this. I asked a very direct question: “If I teach the sacrament can my child be confirmed?” (This question is very simple and direct) His reply was a “No! It has to be in the county wide program or in the parishes that said No to the county wide program” when I asked “why?” he replied because this is what the committee decided on (which he is also on the committee). That is all the explanation I have ever received. I’m not the only parent in the diocese who home educates their children and who have already started teaching the confirmation program. We are all being told that our children cannot be confirmed if we teach. This even before interviewing our children as candidates. I also tried to show him the Confirmation program I was using and he wouldn’t look at it to review it. I tried to explain that the committee cannot make such a decision but my parish priest became furous when I tried to bring up Canon law and the Catechism. Yes, furious, his face turned red and had a few choice comments for me which I don’t want to get sidetracked on. So i just walked away. I am still teaching about Confirmation and there is year before the bishop comes out to Confirm candidates.

When you are teaching the sacraments, what are you teaching about the role and authority of the Ordinary? Since the rules governing the formation for your diocese come from him, are you not teaching your children that thay can take or leave the instructions he gives? Under Canon law, the faithful are also bound by it’s direction as well.

I’m still looking for an answer to thequestions in my previous post.
Peace,
FAB

 

[drforjc]

I have no argument that parents are the primary teacher, however, just because they are in a valid sacramental marriage does not mean that they are qualified to teach sacraments.
A large issue for many parishes are the un-catichized adult population. This is certainly fom a lack of proper instructions in thier formation, but it does exist. Considering the number of Catholics who cease formation after being confirmed there is little question left to why tis is the case.
Since this is a wide problem and one known by bishops and priest alike, one can then see the concern and reason why requirements have been put into place to require formal formation for the Sacrament of Confirmation. There are certainly exceptions, parents that are capable of instucting thier own children, but a couple of question arrise.
Parents that wish to do so, why are they so distrustful of the qualifations of the catichist in their parish and of the reasoned thought behind the program?
Why are they not participating in the instruction in the parish? Certainly part of the issue is unqualifed catichist, then anwer the call to ministry fullfill your baptismal promise to spread the faith and the Gospel.
Anorther question is why do you dislike the faith community that you belong to the point that you don’t want your children to associate with the members?
For those who want to promote this idea, does the pastor at least have the right to determine if the child has been properly and comletely formed? He does afterall have to attest to as much in front of the bishop or should he just trust the parent’s word?

Peace,
FAB

Why are they not participating in the instruction in the parish? Well, in my case, and in many others, we have seen what said instruction consists of and it is woefully inadequate and sometimes even contains heterodoxy. Does the pastor have the right to determine if the child has been properly formed? Sure. Most parishes have interviews with candidates precisely to determine this. How many kids pass the interview is beyond me, speaking strictly from my personal observation at my parish. Nevertheless, yes, the mechanism can and should be in place, and if the parents have properly trained their children, this will be evident at this interview. My daughter and our friends’ child whom I taught at home were practically the only ones to offer anything other than one-word or phrase answers in their interview.
Why not be a teacher? Tried that, and a big part of the class was spent just trying to keep order. Besides that, the materials that the parish was using were, as I said before, “woefully inadequate.”