You are mistaken to say that Paul’s description of what love is (“Love is patient; love is kind”) only applied to “baptized people whose behavior he hoped to mold.” Love could certainly never be described as ruthless
So lets say Pharoah didnt die… the Jews were still the victors and they escaped. Their evidence should have still have been abundant.
Then you don’t understand it.You are mistaken to say that Paul’s description of what love is (“Love is patient; love is kind”) only applied to “baptized people whose behavior he hoped to mold.” Love could certainly never be described as ruthless
I think it would fall in the same category as divorce. God allowed it because of “The hardness of their hearts,” but it isn’t what He desired. Their culture was such that they couldn’t accept divorce-less marriage at that point in history, so He allowed it. Similarly, if it was necessary for a person to be executed then God would allow it to work within their existing culture. If burning was the most humane form of execution at the time, then it’s what would have been prescribed. (I know it’s hard to think of burning as humane, but again, the Pagan world had much, much more brutal forms of execution that they used.) It might not have been what God actively wanted, but if that’s the best the culture of the time could muster then there’s nothing that would prevent Him from demanding it.
Moses certainly existed and now exists for Jesus was talking to him in the Transfiguration on the mountain. Since Holy Scripture is the inspired word of God, I believe everything said in it just as it is written unless there are sound reasons, for example, what the Church has said, sound biblical exigesis, common sense, that the biblical writer is using some story, metaphor, or some like thing to reveal theological truths. Even if such is the case concerning some book or passage in scripture, the story in question may be based on some real historical event and who is to say with certainty it is not in all truthfulness. In the Catechism of the Catholic Church, it says that all the senses of Scripture are based on the literal sense. If there is no certainty that some passage or story of the bible is not historical but simply somebody’s opinion, then it makes sense to me to side on the word of God than some human. Again, what the Church has said, the church fathers, study and sound biblical exegesis, what saints and doctors of the Church have said, common sense, interpreting Scripture in the light of the whole catholic faith, prayer, and such things are invaluable for the interpretation and understanding of Scripture. The Church is the final authority on the interpretation of Holy Scripture.Would it matter if parts of the Bible aren’t true? For example, I was informed that the “slavery of Jews in Egypt is a big problem. Historians don’t think it ever happened and this story plays a huge part in the Old Testament.” and that “historians are convinced Moses didn’t exist and the books attributed to Moses were therefore not written by him”.
Does this matter? I just get worried that if parts like this are false, how are we to know the rest of our beliefs aren’t also?
I don’t see how anyone can understand Love. God is love God is truth. There is one truth. And our delusions, clinging and misunderstandings. We wrestle with them. And will for a long time. But some of what you describe as love sounds like if could have turned to lust. Maybe selfishness. Am I wrong?Then you don’t understand it.
Plenty of people misunderstand loving.
Well, I’m talking about love not how we should behave in the face of love in the age of grace. It is a force that is overwhelming because it is divine. The Song of Songs is my source for these thoughts on love. It pursues its object at all costs, mostly costs to itself, but if crossed it will not wait for us. We must seek it out and accept it on its terms, not ours.
Of course, that is a skewed view of love, isn’t it? Real love wants what is best for the other not what is most convenient, the least uncomfortable, the easiest way out.
Indeed. Our culture’s understanding of love is horribly malformed. The self-sacrifice aspect of it has all but been abandoned, as has the portion where we seek the good of the other above all else. Love today is little more than self-gratification, with a few scraps thrown to the other if it’ll get us what we want.
Unfortunately I have not got to read that book yet. This is my reasoning. God is love. Their natures are the same (Thomism) and God’s mercy endures forever. I think we should model ourselves after God. One way we have available to us is the basis of our faith, the Lord Jesus. God is a jealous God
Love is not “puffed up” (KJV) whatever that means. If I had a girlfriend and she was cheating, I would not be thinking of me and what she did to me. I would be thinking about her. People sometimes do what they do to come to terms with what and who they are. Maybe I am thinking in grace and not judgment. There’s a time for everything. The Song of Songs is the story of the courtship between the bride and the groom. It’s imcomplete (how I wish we had had the whole poem!), so it can be rather obscure, but the imagery is rich and full of spiritual meaning. When you do read it a good commentary will come in handy.
Yes, God is full of mercy, but he is love. It’s hard for us to understand these things, I know. I don’t pretend to, for I can’t. But God’s jealousy is based on the fact that he knows he is best for us in all things. No other god can do anything real for us because they are at the least imaginary and at the worst demons. Somewhere in between comes our fallen nature with its skewed understanding, darkened intellect and weakened will.This is my reasoning. God is love. Their natures are the same (Thomism) and God’s mercy endures forever. I think we should model ourselves after God. One way we have available to us is the basis of our faith, the Lord Jesus. God is a jealous God
Not filled with ego/pride.
That is love. To want the best for the other while forgiving and not dwelling on the other’s sin (as if any of us incapable of sin). With God it is his nature to love, and that love is far more intense than anything we can think of. That love is fierce in its desire for us–so fierce it compelled Jesus to give his life on the cross for us.
People think that by bypassing God’s laws they will get what will make them happy. Yes, we do that all the time, unfortunately. It’s God’s grace that holds back his immediate judgment of us. In the OT it wasn’t like that. Judgment was often swift and dire for breaking the laws of God. The time we live in is the age of grace, brought about through Christ’s redemptive act. The Gospel message molded a good portion of the world for many centuries, but in our day people are reverting to heathenism by exalting tolerance above every other virtue, turning it from an virtue into a vice.People sometimes do what they do to come to terms with what and who they are. Maybe I am thinking in grace and not judgment. There’s a time for everything.
:clapping:
Real love does want what is best for the other and that’s why Jesus tells us, “Love your neighbor as yourself” (Mark 12:31). Jesus also tells us, “Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you” (Matthew 5:44). We are never called to be ruthless or unkind to anyone even in order to force upon them what we think is best for them and not even to our enemies. What Micah 6:8 says still applies to us, “and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?” We must always strive to be kind and humble.
Of course we are not to be ruthless. It’s God love for us that is ruthless–unrelenting–stronger than death–unassailable–will stop at nothing to save us. The cross is evidence of this.
But I also refuse to believe that God actually commanded that people be burned to death or stoned to death for sometimes minor transgressions in the Old Testament. Take the barbaric and disproportionate penalty supposedly demanded by God for picking up some firewood on the Sabbath:
No God who has, as you say, an unrelenting love for his people, would command such a penalty for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.
Are you sure about that? What if God is so jealous for us that he did exact such penalties for violating the Sabbath? The people of Israel had heard God’s commands and agreed to keep them upon penalty of death. The man knew this and paid the price for it. If one person could violate the law then anyone could violate the law and then everyone would violate the law which would make God’s covenant with Israel null. Indeed, as St. Paul wrote that covenant could not justify our sins, which is why Christ died to do that for us.
MOSESWould it matter if parts of the Bible aren’t true? For example, I was informed that the “slavery of Jews in Egypt is a big problem. Historians don’t think it ever happened and this story plays a huge part in the Old Testament.” and that “historians are convinced Moses didn’t exist and the books attributed to Moses were therefore not written by him”.
Does this matter? I just get worried that if parts like this are false, how are we to know the rest of our beliefs aren’t also?
It says in Deuteronomy 23:21, “If you make a vow to the Lord your God, do not postpone fulfilling it; for the Lord your God will surely require it of you, and you would incur guilt.” As a result, in Judges 11:30-31, 34-39 it tells the story of Jephthah one of the Judges of Israel and the vow he made and the consequences of that vow: