Paschal Mystery errors?

[Lrning]

My parish is bringing in a speaker for the second time that I think preaches erroneous theology about the Paschal Mystery. I want to approach the pastor about it, but wanted some other opinions first. The first time I saw this speaker “perform” the entire presentation felt wrong somewhere deep inside and made me sick to my stomach. But maybe I’m wrong and need to open my mind a bit, because I heard rave reviews from others in the parish. I’d like your opinions please…

Here’s what is said about him in the bulletin:
“As we approach Holy Week, we think of the Paschal Mystery as something Jesus did for us a long time ago. But what if this simply is not the way that it works? What if the Paschal Mystery is the rhythm and pattern of life if you go the way of love as Jesus did? Dr. blah blah, a street theologian, educator and storyteller, will share his passion for the birth, life, death and ressurection of Jesus. He will enlighten us to a clearer understanding of the Paschal Mystery.”

It’s that last part that bothers me the most. I felt he didn’t enlighten us at all, since Jesus was rarely mentioned during this presentation. Basically, he wants us to see that Holy Thursday is whenever we are “fed” by moments in this life. When we are so in love with our babies that we want to eat them up. When we are having such a good time with friends that we forget to eat. Etc. And Good Friday is whenever we suffer. Divorce, death of a loved one, etc, all are Good Friday for us. And Holy Saturday is whenever we are waiting in limbo for something. And Easter Sunday is whenever we rejoice about something wonderful. You get the idea. He takes the Paschal Mystery and brings it to an everyday level in a very dynamic way that people eat up. There were some other things about his presentation that resulted in my gut level reaction (having a girl play Jesus, genuflecting to us after his presentation because we moved him so, use of very New Age statues to represent the days of Holy Week, etc…)

So, opinions? Should I lighten up? Is this erroneous theology about the Paschal Mystery?

 

[Matt_707]

My parish is bringing in a speaker for the second time that I think preaches erroneous theology about the Paschal Mystery. I want to approach the pastor about it, but wanted some other opinions first. The first time I saw this speaker “perform” the entire presentation felt wrong somewhere deep inside and made me sick to my stomach. But maybe I’m wrong and need to open my mind a bit, because I heard rave reviews from others in the parish. I’d like your opinions please…

Here’s what is said about him in the bulletin:
“As we approach Holy Week, we think of the Paschal Mystery as something Jesus did for us a long time ago. But what if this simply is not the way that it works? What if the Paschal Mystery is the rhythm and pattern of life if you go the way of love as Jesus did? Dr. blah blah, a street theologian, educator and storyteller, will share his passion for the birth, life, death and ressurection of Jesus. He will enlighten us to a clearer understanding of the Paschal Mystery.”

It’s that last part that bothers me the most. I felt he didn’t enlighten us at all, since Jesus was rarely mentioned during this presentation. Basically, he wants us to see that Holy Thursday is whenever we are “fed” by moments in this life. When we are so in love with our babies that we want to eat them up. When we are having such a good time with friends that we forget to eat. Etc. And Good Friday is whenever we suffer. Divorce, death of a loved one, etc, all are Good Friday for us. And Holy Saturday is whenever we are waiting in limbo for something. And Easter Sunday is whenever we rejoice about something wonderful. You get the idea. He takes the Paschal Mystery and brings it to an everyday level in a very dynamic way that people eat up. There were some other things about his presentation that resulted in my gut level reaction (having a girl play Jesus, genuflecting to us after his presentation because we moved him so, use of very New Age statues to represent the days of Holy Week, etc…)

So, opinions? Should I lighten up? Is this erroneous theology about the Paschal Mystery?

Wow… That is definitely interesting. I’m not theologically in a place to say whether that is wrong or not, but I will give you my opinion…

Do not be afraid to stand up and state your concern with your parish priest. That is the problem with the Church today and why we are in the spot we are. Not enough people are willing to stand for Truth. If you are truly feeling wierd about this guy, take stand. It can’t hurt.

God Bless you!

-Matt

 

[Carlan]

My parish is bringing in a speaker for the second time that I think preaches erroneous theology about the Paschal Mystery. I want to approach the pastor about it, but wanted some other opinions first. The first time I saw this speaker “perform” the entire presentation felt wrong somewhere deep inside and made me sick to my stomach. But maybe I’m wrong and need to open my mind a bit, because I heard rave reviews from others in the parish. I’d like your opinions please…

Here’s what is said about him in the bulletin:
“As we approach Holy Week, we think of the Paschal Mystery as something Jesus did for us a long time ago. But what if this simply is not the way that it works? What if the Paschal Mystery is the rhythm and pattern of life if you go the way of love as Jesus did? Dr. blah blah, a street theologian, educator and storyteller, will share his passion for the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus. He will enlighten us to a clearer understanding of the Paschal Mystery.”

It’s that last part that bothers me the most. I felt he didn’t enlighten us at all, since Jesus was rarely mentioned during this presentation. Basically, he wants us to see that Holy Thursday is whenever we are “fed” by moments in this life. When we are so in love with our babies that we want to eat them up. When we are having such a good time with friends that we forget to eat. Etc. And Good Friday is whenever we suffer. Divorce, death of a loved one, etc, all are Good Friday for us. And Holy Saturday is whenever we are waiting in limbo for something. And Easter Sunday is whenever we rejoice about something wonderful. You get the idea. He takes the Paschal Mystery and brings it to an everyday level in a very dynamic way that people eat up. There were some other things about his presentation that resulted in my gut level reaction (having a girl play Jesus, genuflecting to us after his presentation because we moved him so, use of very New Age statues to represent the days of Holy Week, etc…)

So, opinions? Should I lighten up? Is this erroneous theology about the Paschal Mystery?

Well, of course we are to follow the way of the cross, in our personal life and growth in holiness. And perhaps this man’s analogy will help some relate to the PASCAL mystery easier:shrug: but for me sticking to the Gospel Truth is what the Church needs to hear.

The Doctrine of the Cross, Matt 16:24 and following should be read and preached over and over again, until we get it.Love and Peace, Carlan

 

[Lrning]

Thanks for the response Matt.

I was hoping to go to my pastor with more than just my gut feeling about this guy. I really would like to gain some knowledge here about whether or not this is dangerous theology. I googled his name and he is EVERYWHERE! I’m shocked and dismayed by the number of parishes that are having him come speak.

My googling also resulted in my finding part of his booklet on the presentation, which jogged my memory. Supposedly Easter is whenever we gain “new life”. His example was a 95 year old woman riding a motorcycle for the first time. That’s Easter?!?

He begins his presentation with Jesus (played by a girl) running the Paschal Mystery Marathon with his cross and us as cheerleaders. But Jesus stops and calls us to him and says he’s going to cheer for us and wants us to run the race for him. “You take it from here.” That’s what Jesus says to us. He wants us to take his cross and continue the race for him. That raised the red flag for me right there. Jesus as a bystander and us as the one’s at the center of the Paschal Mystery?

Maybe I’m just too conservative at heart to see what this guy is trying to teach me. I truly don’t get it. I’m hoping someone else might be able to shed some light on either where this guy is in error or how I might be overreacting.

Anyone?

 

[Lrning]

Thanks Carlan. I just reread Matthew 16:24-28. I guess I see as key “whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.” After the beginning of this presentation, when he was going through each of the days of Holy Week, we no longer heard about Jesus but heard stories about the lives of different people that “defined” the Paschal Mystery. Just everyday occurrences, like those I’ve mentioned.

Is that what living the way of the cross is about?

 

[Carlan]

Thanks Carlan. I just reread Matthew 16:24-28. I guess I see as key “whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.” After the beginning of this presentation, when he was going through each of the days of Holy Week, we no longer heard about Jesus but heard stories about the lives of different people that “defined” the Paschal Mystery. Just everyday occurrences, like those I’ve mentioned.

Is that what living the way of the cross is about?

Yes, dying to self, becoming more like Jesus’ lived life. If the guest speaker, in his way, was trying to point this out to the the congregation, not being there to hear , I can’t say how clear i would have rec’d it, evidently some heard it the way they thought it was intended and accepted it. I’m am a very oldie and I believe in the plain and simple preaching. you know what I mean. Peace , Carlan

 

[diggerdomer]

My parish is bringing in a speaker for the second time that I think preaches erroneous theology about the Paschal Mystery. I want to approach the pastor about it, but wanted some other opinions first. The first time I saw this speaker “perform” the entire presentation felt wrong somewhere deep inside and made me sick to my stomach. But maybe I’m wrong and need to open my mind a bit, because I heard rave reviews from others in the parish. I’d like your opinions please…

Here’s what is said about him in the bulletin:
“As we approach Holy Week, we think of the Paschal Mystery as something Jesus did for us a long time ago. But what if this simply is not the way that it works? What if the Paschal Mystery is the rhythm and pattern of life if you go the way of love as Jesus did? Dr. blah blah, a street theologian, educator and storyteller, will share his passion for the birth, life, death and ressurection of Jesus. He will enlighten us to a clearer understanding of the Paschal Mystery.”

It’s that last part that bothers me the most. I felt he didn’t enlighten us at all, since Jesus was rarely mentioned during this presentation. Basically, he wants us to see that Holy Thursday is whenever we are “fed” by moments in this life. When we are so in love with our babies that we want to eat them up. When we are having such a good time with friends that we forget to eat. Etc. And Good Friday is whenever we suffer. Divorce, death of a loved one, etc, all are Good Friday for us. And Holy Saturday is whenever we are waiting in limbo for something. And Easter Sunday is whenever we rejoice about something wonderful. You get the idea. He takes the Paschal Mystery and brings it to an everyday level in a very dynamic way that people eat up. There were some other things about his presentation that resulted in my gut level reaction (having a girl play Jesus, genuflecting to us after his presentation because we moved him so, use of very New Age statues to represent the days of Holy Week, etc…)

So, opinions? Should I lighten up? Is this erroneous theology about the Paschal Mystery?

I would agree that the Paschal mystery should be the rhythm and pattern of the Christian life. This does not mean that it’s not also something Jesus did, experienced, and accomplished.

Is that a problem?

 

[seagal]

Haivng done a lot of grief work, I’m familiar with the concept of going through our own personal “Good Friday” with the sure hope of the Easter Sunday resurrection. So I can kinda sorta see where he’s going. But the examples you cited were trivial in the extreme. They are simply the ordinary pleasures and pains of life, not the profound death to life experience of Easter. And Jesus encouraging us to “run the race for him”? That’s just the opposite of what he did. He paid the price because we, in our humanness, are unable to. He is the paschal sacrafice because he is the unblemished Lamb of God. It’s possible the speaker is simply trying to encouraage his audience to live as Jesus lived, and Jesus did tell us to “take up our cross”, but he’s way out to lunch in his methods. This is New Age downplaying the role of Jesus as our Redeemer.

 

[Poco]

It’s possible the speaker is simply trying to encouraage his audience to live as Jesus lived, and Jesus did tell us to “take up our cross”, but he’s way out to lunch in his methods. This is New Age downplaying the role of Jesus as our Redeemer.

That’s pretty much what I was thinking as well.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

My parish is bringing in a speaker for the second time that I think preaches erroneous theology about the Paschal Mystery. I want to approach the pastor about it, but wanted some other opinions first. The first time I saw this speaker “perform” the entire presentation felt wrong somewhere deep inside and made me sick to my stomach. But maybe I’m wrong and need to open my mind a bit, because I heard rave reviews from others in the parish. I’d like your opinions please…

Here’s what is said about him in the bulletin:
“As we approach Holy Week, we think of the Paschal Mystery as something Jesus did for us a long time ago. But what if this simply is not the way that it works? What if the Paschal Mystery is the rhythm and pattern of life if you go the way of love as Jesus did? Dr. blah blah, a street theologian, educator and storyteller, will share his passion for the birth, life, death and ressurection of Jesus. He will enlighten us to a clearer understanding of the Paschal Mystery.”

It’s that last part that bothers me the most. I felt he didn’t enlighten us at all, since Jesus was rarely mentioned during this presentation. Basically, he wants us to see that Holy Thursday is whenever we are “fed” by moments in this life. When we are so in love with our babies that we want to eat them up. When we are having such a good time with friends that we forget to eat. Etc. And Good Friday is whenever we suffer. Divorce, death of a loved one, etc, all are Good Friday for us. And Holy Saturday is whenever we are waiting in limbo for something. And Easter Sunday is whenever we rejoice about something wonderful. You get the idea. He takes the Paschal Mystery and brings it to an everyday level in a very dynamic way that people eat up. There were some other things about his presentation that resulted in my gut level reaction (having a girl play Jesus, genuflecting to us after his presentation because we moved him so, use of very New Age statues to represent the days of Holy Week, etc…)

So, opinions? Should I lighten up? Is this erroneous theology about the Paschal Mystery?

Your diocese should have a policy and qualifiations for those who preach Parish Missions or Days of Reflection, and they should be required to meet strict Catholic standards.

 

[Ultima_Ratio]

The Mass is the sacrifice of Jesus made present, and represented to the Father. On Calvary, our Lord merited for us, and at the Mass the merits are distributed to us, according to our dispositions. The following is the clear and concise explanation of the Mass from the catechism of Pius X.

**The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass **

The Essence, Institution and Ends of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass

1 Q: Should the Holy Eucharist be considered only as a sacrament?

A: The Holy Eucharist, besides being a sacrament, is also the permanent Sacrifice of the New Law, which Jesus Christ left to His Church to be offered to God by the hands of His priests.

**2 Q: In what in general does a sacrifice consist? **

A: In general a sacrifice consists in the offering of some sensible thing to God and in some way destroying it as an acknowledgment of His Supreme Dominion over us and over all things.

**3 Q: What is this Sacrifice of the New Law called? **

A: This Sacrifice of the New Law is called the Holy Mass.

**4 Q: What, then, is the Holy Mass? **

A: The Holy Mass is the Sacrifice of the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ offered on our altars under the appearances of bread and wine, in commemoration of the Sacrifice of the Cross.

5 Q: Is the Sacrifice of the Mass the same as that of the Cross?

A: The Sacrifice of the Mass is substantially the same as that of the Cross, for the same Jesus Christ, Who offered Himself on the Cross, it is Who offers Himself by the hands of the priests, His ministers, on our altars; but as regards the way in which He is offered, the Sacrifice of the Mass differs from the Sacrifice of the Cross, though retaining the most intimate and essential relation to it.

**6 Q: What difference and relation then is there between the Sacrifice of the Mass and that of the Cross? **

A: Between the Sacrifice of the Mass and that of the Cross there is this difference and relation, that on the Cross Jesus Christ offered Himself by shedding His Blood and meriting for us; whereas on our altars He sacrifices Himself without the shedding of His Blood, and applies to us the fruits of His passion And death.

**7 Q: What other relation has the Sacrifice of the Mass to that of the Cross? **

A: Another relation of the Sacrifice of the Mass to that of the Cross is, that the Sacrifice of the Mass represents in a sensible way the shedding of the Blood of Jesus Christ on the Cross, because, in virtue of the words of consecration, only the Body of our Savior is made present under the species of the bread and only His Blood under the species of the wine; although by natural concomitance and by the hypostatic union, the living And real Jesus Christ is present under each of the species.

**8 Q: Is not the Sacrifice of the Cross the one only Sacrifice of the New Law? **

A: The Sacrifice of the Cross is the one only Sacrifice of the New Law, inasmuch as through it Our Lord satisfied Divine Justice, acquired all the merits necessary to save us, and thus, on His part, fully accomplished our redemption. These merits, however, He applies to us through the means instituted by Him in His Church, among which is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

9 Q: For what ends then is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass offered?

A: The Sacrifice of the Mass is offered to God for four ends: (1) To honor Him properly, and hence it is called Latreutical; (2) To thank Him for His favors, and hence it is called Eucharistical; (3) To appease Him, make Him due satisfaction for our sins, and to help the souls in Purgatory, and hence it is called Propitiatory; (4) To obtain all the graces necessary for us, and hence it is called Impetratory.

**10 Q: Who is it that offers to God the Sacrifice of the Holy Mass? **

A: The first and principal Offerer of the Sacrifice of the Holy Mass is Jesus Christ, while the priest is the minister who in the Name of Jesus Christ offers the same Sacrifice to the Eternal Father.

**11 Q: Who instituted the Sacrifice of the Holy Mass? **

A: Jesus Christ Himself instituted the Sacrifice of the Holy Mass when He instituted the Sacrament of the Blessed Eucharist and said that this should be done in memory of His passion.

**12 Q: To whom is the Holy Mass offered? **

A: The Holy Mass is offered to God alone.

**13 Q: If the Holy Mass is offered to God alone why are so many Masses celebrated in honor of the Blessed Virgin And the Saints? **

A: Mass celebrated in honor of the Blessed Virgin and the Saints is always a sacrifice offered to God alone; it is said to be celebrated in honor of the Blessed Virgin and the Saints to thank God for the gifts He has given them, and through their intercession to obtain from Him more abundantly the graces of which we have need.

**14 Q: Who shares in the fruits of the Mass? **

A: The entire Church shares in the fruits of the Mass, but more particularly: (1) The priest and those who assist at Mass, the latter being united with the priest; (2) Those for whom the Mass is applied, both living and dead.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

Your diocese should have a policy and qualifiations for those who preach Parish Missions or Days of Reflection, and they should be required to meet strict Catholic standards.

But whose standards?

The experience the OP relates I believe illustrates one of the biggest problems in the church today- it seems that we are always looking for only*** “one right way”.***
The speaker (referred to in the OP), imho, was “right on” with his description of the Paschal Mystery, in a way that would engage people who may not have the deeper understand of the faith that others do. And while this “low Christology” may not appeal to everyone, I think that it is important to come from that side as a way to stoke the embers of that burning desire for God.

The* 'high Christology" *espoused by many would have been totally unaccessable for me, in the place I was when I returned to church, and it was through at retreat much like this one that I rediscovered my faith.:heaven:

A parish needs to meet all of it’s people "where they are", the probelm is too many just let them stay there and don’t do anything to encouage or challenge more spiritual growth.

We need the ***“both/and” ***to truly grow and mature in our faith.

 

[Lrning]

Thanks for all the replies. I’m still not really sure what I think. My gut tells me this presenter is way off, but oneofthewomen, you’ve really given me something to think about.

I don’t think there’s only one right way for people to follow Jesus. But if this presenter is actually teaching falsely, that is not good, and I don’t think that helps people in their faith.

I still don’t get it…how is riding a motorcycle for the first time at 95 years old Easter? How is a young child having so much fun playing with their friend that they forget to eat lunch Holy Thursday? I just don’t get it. Isn’t the rhythm and pattern of a Christian life supposed to revolve around Jesus? I guess the presenter just didn’t connect the dots enough for me. How do these examples lead to Jesus?

 

[seagal]

I still don’t get it…how is riding a motorcycle for the first time at 95 years old Easter? How is a young child having so much fun playing with their friend that they forget to eat lunch Holy Thursday? I just don’t get it. Isn’t the rhythm and pattern of a Christian life supposed to revolve around Jesus? I guess the presenter just didn’t connect the dots enough for me. How do these examples lead to Jesus?

Those are good questions for your pastor.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

Thanks for all the replies. I’m still not really sure what I think. My gut tells me this presenter is way off, but oneofthewomen, you’ve really given me something to think about.

I don’t think there’s only one right way for people to follow Jesus. But if this presenter is actually teaching falsely, that is not good, and I don’t think that helps people in their faith.

I still don’t get it…how is riding a motorcycle for the first time at 95 years old Easter? How is a young child having so much fun playing with their friend that they forget to eat lunch Holy Thursday? I just don’t get it. Isn’t the rhythm and pattern of a Christian life supposed to revolve around Jesus? I guess the presenter just didn’t connect the dots enough for me. How do these examples lead to Jesus?

Regarding the highlighted portion- yes the Christian life is supposed to revolve around Jesus, but not just Him as a person, but using Him as an example to live our lives by.
While I agree that the presenters use of a 95 y.o riding a motorcycle is a stretch, I think it may be more about the person who let the 95 y.o ride their bike. The connection that I think the presenter was trying to make (and this is only speculation, based on your OP, I was not there) was that through the actions of others we can see the glory of God, and that little piece of the Divine in all of us and therefore we are always celebrating the “Pascal Mystery” whenever we, as humans, come together in love and friendship.

Overly simplistic yes, wrong teaching, I don’t think so.

If you are still that uncomfortable with the situation, I encourage you to take your concerns to your priest or spiritual director. I have found that ususally when I have such a strong reaction to something, something eles is really going on, and talking about it with someone I trust and has more knowledge than I do can really help.

Peace!

 

[seagal]

The connection that I think the presenter was trying to make (and this is only speculation, based on your OP, I was not there) was that through the actions of others we can see the glory of God

I think you are generously giving the speaker more credit than he deserves, going by what Lrning has posted about his presentations. I wasn’t there either but I got a different feel about it

we are always celebrating the “Pascal Mystery” whenever we, as humans, come together in love and friendship.

The Paschal Mystery is the suffering, death, and resurection of Jesus. Jesus takes on the role of the Paschal (or Passover) Lamb and is sacrificed for our sake. I don’t see how this is reflected in, as you say, our “coming together in love and friendship”. That’s what would bother me by the approach the speaker seems to take. I think that Christian love and joy and friendship are wonderful and should be celebrated. I don’t think that Jesus’ death and resurection should be downgraded to such a degree simply to take it down to our level, so to speak. It’s called a mystery for a reason, we will never fully understand it. I agree (to a point) with what you said in an earlier post about priests meeting the people where they are, but they would be negligent if they simplfy things so much that they lose all significance.