Pastor Manning on Notre Dame and the Pope

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This guy’s approach is “over the top,” and he definitely won’t convince any pro-Obama-ites, but I can sympathize with his anger and disappointment with the Catholic Church since I feel the same way.
 
This guy’s approach is “over the top,” and he definitely won’t convince any pro-Obama-ites, but I can sympathize with his anger and disappointment with the Catholic Church since I feel the same way.
ya he is over the top-but like you i sympathize with the way he feels
 
I’m glad that Pastor Manning is pro-life, but he is uninformed in several ways.
  1. The Catholic Church did not approve President Obama’s visit to ND. He is using this issue to preach anti-Catholic propaganda.
  2. He is accusing the Catholic Church of being guilty. This is not true. The Church does not own Notre Dame. It is a privately owned institution.
  3. He says that the Catholic Church has lost its moral authority. The Catholic bishops were the first to oppose the President’s speech.
  4. He is speaking anti-pope and making a racial issue about the Holy Father’s visit to Africa and insulting the Holy Father. The Holy Father has no authority over Notre Dame or President Obama.
  5. He is accusing the Pope of silently allowing the holocaust. This is not true.
  6. He accuses Pope Benedict XVI of trying to be popular and lifting up his voce against poor people in Black Africa and protecting Fr. Jenkins (because he’s white) and the President of the USA (because he’s more popular). Truth is truth no matter where and when it’s said. The Pope has the right to preach truth in Africa and has no authority over President Obama. Right now, the Catholic Church and the White House don’t even have diplomatic relations, because there is no American Ambassador to the Vatican. The US Bishops and the Superior General of the Holy Cross Brothers did contact the President about the visit to Notre Dame before it happened. The President went anyway. He could have bowed out graciously.
  7. The Pope never invited anyone to dialogue about abortion. Obama did. The Catholic position is that there is nothing to discuss on the issue of abortion. It is wrong and that’s all there is to it.
  8. The Pope did not allow or support any ND Massacre. Notre Dame is not under the jurisdiction of the Vatican. The Vatican has no legal right to interfere in the internal affairs of ND.
  9. The Pope has spoken on abortion. This man is accusing the Pope of being silent about abortion.
How can any Catholic listen to him and say that they feel as he does?

What this man does is insulting to the Holy Father, the Church and to Catholics around the world. How can this appear on a Catholic forum?

Fraternally,

JR 😦
 
I sympathize with him, though I realize he was careless and made a lot of errors in the things he said. But still, I sympathize with his frustration about Obama being honored at Notre Dame. The reason why is because I realize how hard it is for the average Catholic to understand how the Church, while solidly pro-life and anti-abortion, can at the same time have so many Catholics, Catholic politicians, and Catholic institutions in good standing (neither censured nor excommunicated) working against the goal of protecting the unborn in our country and throughout the world. If Catholics can’t understand it, how can you expect non-Catholics to understand it? Yes, there’s a hierarchy, and the Pope doesn’t get involved in something that the local bishop can deal with. But, in the end, dissenting Catholics and Catholic institutions go ahead and do what they want and teach what they want, no one says anything, they continue carrying the label “Catholic”, and people who try to live by the Church’s teachings are labeled as right-wing nut cases. I’m glad 70 bishops stated their objection to Fr Jenkins, but in the end, the event went on and Notre Dame came out looking great, still “Catholic” as ever, probably getting loads of donations from all sorts of pro-choicers. For myself, I’m just fed up with things like this where no one seems to have any authority to actually put a stop to something so unjust that brings so much scandal to the Church. No doubt Pastor Manning has less understanding of the inner workings of the Catholic Church than I do, so I sympathize with his disappointment, anger, and frustration, since he probably expected something more. Let’s face it, the whole world looks to the Church as a moral authority. When they let us down, there is no where left to go.
 
I’m glad that Pastor Manning is pro-life, but he is uninformed in several ways.
  1. The Catholic Church did not approve President Obama’s visit to ND. He is using this issue to preach anti-Catholic propaganda.
  2. He is accusing the Catholic Church of being guilty. This is not true. The Church does not own Notre Dame. It is a privately owned institution.
  3. He says that the Catholic Church has lost its moral authority. The Catholic bishops were the first to oppose the President’s speech.
  4. He is speaking anti-pope and making a racial issue about the Holy Father’s visit to Africa and insulting the Holy Father. The Holy Father has no authority over Notre Dame or President Obama.
  5. He is accusing the Pope of silently allowing the holocaust. This is not true.
  6. He accuses Pope Benedict XVI of trying to be popular and lifting up his voce against poor people in Black Africa and protecting Fr. Jenkins (because he’s white) and the President of the USA (because he’s more popular). Truth is truth no matter where and when it’s said. The Pope has the right to preach truth in Africa and has no authority over President Obama. Right now, the Catholic Church and the White House don’t even have diplomatic relations, because there is no American Ambassador to the Vatican. The US Bishops and the Superior General of the Holy Cross Brothers did contact the President about the visit to Notre Dame before it happened. The President went anyway. He could have bowed out graciously.
  7. The Pope never invited anyone to dialogue about abortion. Obama did. The Catholic position is that there is nothing to discuss on the issue of abortion. It is wrong and that’s all there is to it.
  8. The Pope did not allow or support any ND Massacre. Notre Dame is not under the jurisdiction of the Vatican. The Vatican has no legal right to interfere in the internal affairs of ND.
  9. The Pope has spoken on abortion. This man is accusing the Pope of being silent about abortion.
How can any Catholic listen to him and say that they feel as he does?

What this man does is insulting to the Holy Father, the Church and to Catholics around the world. How can this appear on a Catholic forum?

Fraternally,

JR 😦
Thank you Jr Catholic and Pope bashers are a dime a dozen…I am glad you went point by point to show him for what he is

I wonder just how well he would stand up to our scrutiny if we did an expose on his life and faith?😉
 
Pastor Manning is certainly a charismatic figure in his community but some of the things he says are just shocking. Not that I don’t sympathize with his opposition to the President and abortion. It’s interesting that the boys he frequently has standing on the stage with him during his preaching, wear garments similar to those worn by Catholic Cardinals. So close, yet so far away.
 
I sympathize with him, though I realize he was careless and made a lot of errors in the things he said. But still, I sympathize with his frustration about Obama being honored at Notre Dame. The reason why is because I realize how hard it is for the average Catholic to understand how the Church, while solidly pro-life and anti-abortion, can at the same time have so many Catholics, Catholic politicians, and Catholic institutions in good standing (neither censured nor excommunicated) working against the goal of protecting the unborn in our country and throughout the world. If Catholics can’t understand it, how can you expect non-Catholics to understand it? Yes, there’s a hierarchy, and the Pope doesn’t get involved in something that the local bishop can deal with. But, in the end, dissenting Catholics and Catholic institutions go ahead and do what they want and teach what they want, no one says anything, they continue carrying the label “Catholic”, and people who try to live by the Church’s teachings are labeled as right-wing nut cases. I’m glad 70 bishops stated their objection to Fr Jenkins, but in the end, the event went on and Notre Dame came out looking great, still “Catholic” as ever, probably getting loads of donations from all sorts of pro-choicers. For myself, I’m just fed up with things like this where no one seems to have any authority to actually put a stop to something so unjust that brings so much scandal to the Church. No doubt Pastor Manning has less understanding of the inner workings of the Catholic Church than I do, so I sympathize with his disappointment, anger, and frustration, since he probably expected something more. Let’s face it, the whole world looks to the Church as a moral authority. When they let us down, there is no where left to go.
Notre Dame’s administration is not the Catholic Church. Therefore, the Catholic Church did not let anyone down. The hierarchy disapproved of their choice in speaker and the honorary degree. The hierarchy did not let us down. The Superior General of the Holy Cross Brothers wrote to President Obama and probably to Fr. Jenkins, why write to one and not the other. Therefore, the Holy Cross Brothers did not let us down.

Everyone did what they could to call the Notre Dame administration, especially Fr. Jenkins, to task and to a greater awareness that what they were doing was wrong. There is nothing more that anyone could have done. The Church has rules and she has to follow them.

If Notre Dame is a private institution, the bishops cannot go in there like the Marines invading a foreign nation. For those who love the Church, the other side of this argument is also vexing. There is only so much that the Church can do without violating individuals’, institutions’ and religious congregations’ rights when not all the people who form these organizations and religious communities are guilty.

To hear people complaining and charging the leadershiip of the Church with not being pro-active and demanding things that the leadership cannot deliver, because it does not have the authority to deliver, is equally tiring in the end.

We have to accept that people make dumb choices, such as the one that was made at Notre Dame and that often there is nothing that we can do to help them or stop them. Anyone who is a parent should be able to relate to this concept. You raise your children well and they make dumb choices as adults. How much power do you really have?

The Church is also a mother and she has a limited resource of power over certain situations. This happens to be one of them.

Everyone wants the Church to excommunicate every one who is a dissenter. The fact is that there is already legislation in Canon Law under which people excommunicate themselves. If the dissenter crosses that line, the Church does not have to perform any public ritual of excommunication.

In addition, we must remember that the role of the Church is to heal and bring back those who stray. The Holy Father and the Holy See do not want to engage in punitive actions. It is the wish of the Holy Father to engage in unitive activity.

There are too many Catholics out there who want the Church to make an example of these individuals, as if excommunicating them and attacking their character in public would achieve something. The only thing that it would achieve is to make a martyr out of someone whose actions are clearly wrong. These are not the Middle Ages when the Church had economic, military and political power. Sanctions, excommunications and interdicts not only had a spiritual effect, but they had a financial one too. People feared them because of the material effect.

As the Holy Father said when he lifted the excommunication of the SSPX bishops. Excommunication is a disciplinary act. It did not have the desired effect; therefore, it was lifted. The hard-headed or hard-hearted, whichever the case, do not respond to these consequences as desired. This is not always a solution to a problem.

We have to find solutions, not penalties that are often ineffective.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I’m glad that Pastor Manning is pro-life, but he is uninformed in several ways.
Thank you for pointing this out. It seems the Anti-catholics never miss an opportunity to bash the Catholic Church. They wear the glove of righteousness and wield a dagger in the other. If they can’t convert us over to their way of thinking, they try every thing they can to make us loose faith in our own church.
 
JR, thank you once again for your level-headed and thorough responses to the developments in the Notre Dame saga.

The gentleman in the video, IMO, is a bit of a kook. He also isn’t Catholic, and therefore lacks a good deal of understanding of the situation. I couldn’t bear to watch the whole thing, especially with his repetitive style (How many times can one say “Notre Dam”?).

There is little I can add, except to say that I am surprised by so many posts here on CAF from good Catholics who say that this incident has started to shake their faith in the Church, because of the “lack of response” to the University administration’s actions.

As a 2009 graduate of ND myself, I have to say that the lesson I have learned from all of this is that the Church is ever a “school for sinners,” and that individual Catholic institutions, such as Notre Dame, are prone to great failings. But our faith is not in them, it is in Christ, and in His Bride, the Church. The Church isn’t just another Catholic meta-institution that oversees all the others, it is Christ’s mystical Body. We must all look beyond the scandal and sins of Notre Dame and place our firm and sincere faith in the Church, trusting that all of this will be overcome in due time and according to God’s plan.
 
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